krasi

[solpahi]

Original definition:
x1 (site/event) is a source/start/beginning/origin of x2 (object/event/process).

---

This word seems to allow both a temporal and a spatial reading, but how do you specify which one applies? Is the idea that event places force a temporal reading and non-event objects force a spatial reading? I think that would be problematic for at least the following reasons:

1. It is arguable whether concrete objects themselves can be considered events. Deciding a priori whether or not they can in Lojban doesn't seem philosophically neutral to me. Lojban's grammar (where grammar includes more than just syntax) should be as indifferent about philosophy as possible.
2. Even though a temporal reading may be more natural for an event most of the time, it is perfectly possible to want to talk about spatial aspects of an event. In any case, it should not be forbidden by arbitrary pre-made distinctions.

I am therefore pondering the addition of a third place to krasi as well as its opposite fanmo.

Something like:

x1 is the beginning of x2 in aspect x3 (ka)

This should in theory allow us to access all the meanings from the definition (source/start/origin) and more, precisely.

ti krasi lo nuncarvi lo ka zvati
"This is where the rain[ing] begins (spatially before, it's sunshine or cloudy but dry)."

lo mumymasti cu krasi lo glare citsi lo ka cabna
"May is the temporal beginning of the hot season."

(the exact way to specify x3 might need work, but the idea should be clear)

I'm sure there are lots of other potentially very interesting ways to fill the x3 other than just cabna/zvati.

Also this would make krasi and fanmo perfect lujvo fodder.

[uakci]

Agree.

On Sep 3, 2016 9:24 AM, "solpahi" notifications@github.com wrote:

Original definition:
*x1 (site/event) is a source/start/beginning/origin of x2

(object/event/process).*

This word seems to allow both a temporal and a spatial reading, but how do
you specify which applies? Is the idea that any event places force a
temporal reading and any non-event objects force a spatial reading? I think
that would be problematic for at least the following reasons:

1. It is arguable whether concrete objects themselves can be
   considered events. Deciding a priori whether or not they can in Lojban
   doesn't seem philosophically neutral to me. Lojban's grammar (where grammar
   includes more than just syntax) should be as indifferent about philosophy
   as possible.
2. Even though a temporal reading may be more natural for an event
   most of the time, it is perfectly possible to want to talk about spatial
   aspects of an event. In any case, it should not be forbidden by arbitrary
   pre-made distinctions.

I am therefore pondering the addition of a third place to krasi as well
as its opposite fanmo.

Something like:

x1 is the beginning of x2 in aspect x3 (ka)

This should in theory allow us to access all the meanings from the
definition (source/start/origin) and more, precisely.

ti krasi lo nuncarvi lo ka zvati
"This is where the rain[ing] begins (spatially before, it's sunshine or
cloudy but dry)."

lo mumymasti cu krasi lo glare citsi lo ka cabna
"May is the temporal beginning of the hot season."

(the exact way to specify x3 might need work, but the idea should be clear)

I'm sure there are lots of other potentially very interesting ways to fill
the x3 other than just cabna/zvati.

Also this would make krasi and fanmo perfect lujvo fodder.

—
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
#30, or mute the thread
https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AGo4dJUDkFa64jbRTgMGFn_UgR1aK1okks5qmSCRgaJpZM4J0PwE
.

[mklcp]

I agree with your definition, but I'm a bit annoyed 'source' versus 'begining', and 'ending' versus 'destination' ⦅considering fanmo and krasi⦆.
it feel like that 'begining' and 'ending' don't suppose a direction, while 'source' and 'destination' yes.
English words are also here to blame, but I believe that there's something behind.

While you're fixing krasi, maybe think about cfari, dicra and sisti.
With these new krasi and fanmo,,

• cfari seems to be krasi fasnu,,
• dicra, fanmo fasnu with a causal semantic,,
• sisti, fanmo fasnu gasnu.

Also, take a look at co'a and co'u, which are, with za'o, the only members of ZAhO to have rafsi,, and a lot of lujvo use them as 'begining' and 'ending' also, e.g. claco'a, co'urji'e, co'arbi'o, co'urde'a, co'urfa'o.