Sync issue with 15khz CRT #1
Comments
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Hmm Sync is fine on my PVM on both the analog IO board and DV, also no sync issues with my 1702 Commodore monitor. |
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@kold669 can you post your MiSTer.ini? |
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Hello,
sure, see in annex
I also attach the picture of the issue.
I am using a Microvitec M1438 multisync monitor ( 15-40khz), no issues
with other cores.
I also own an actual pcb of Son Son and it works perfectly on it
…On 10/11/2022 21:52, birdybro wrote:
@kold669 <https://github.com/kold669> can you post your MiSTer.ini?
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[MiSTer]
vrr_mode=0
hdmi_game_mode=0
key_menu_as_rgui=0 ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0 ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0 ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1 ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0 ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0 ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
vscale_mode=1 ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
; 1 - use integer scale only.
; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0 ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0 ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig.
;mouse_throttle=10 ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0 ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0 ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=2 ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=1 ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0 ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1 ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30 ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 0 - never timeout.
; Background picture will get darker after double timeout
osd_rotate=0 ; Display OSD menu rotated, 0 - no rotation, 1 - rotate right (+90°), 2 - rotate left (-90°)
; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
; There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0
; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.
bootcore_timeout=10
; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
; 768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
; 1024 bytes - chars 0-127
; 1136 bytes - chars 0-141
; up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/Arcade_R_Type_LEO_(Irem).pf
; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0
; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.
dvi_mode=0
; 0 - ***@***.***
; 1 - ***@***.***
; 2 - ***@***.***
; 3 - ***@***.***
; 4 - ***@***.***
; 5 - ***@***.***
; 6 - ***@***.***
; 7 - ***@***.***
; 8 - ***@***.***
; 9 - ***@***.***
;10 - ***@***.***
;11 - ***@***.***
;12 - ***@***.***
;13 - ***@***.***
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz[,hsyncp,vsyncp]
; video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250,0,0
video_mode=6
; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=1
; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems.
vsync_adjust=2
; If you monitor doesn't support either very low (NTSC monitors may not support PAL) or
; very high (PAL monitors may not support NTSC) then you can set refresh_min and/or refresh_max
; parameters, so vsync_adjust won't be applied for refreshes outside specified.
; These parameters are valid only when vsync_adjust is non-zero.
refresh_min=0
refresh_max=0
; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7
; 1-10 (seconds) to display controller's button map upon first time key press
; 0 - disable
controller_info=6
; JammaSD/J-PAC/I-PAC keys to joysticks translation
; You have to provide correct VID and PID of your input device
; Examples: Legacy J-PAC with Mini-USB or USB capable I-PAC with PS/2 connectors VID=0xD209/PID=0x0301
; USB Capable J-PAC with only PS/2 connectors VID=0x04B4/PID=0x0101
; JammaSD: VID=0x04D8/PID=0xF3AD
jamma_vid=0xD209
jamma_pid=0x0301
; Disable merging input devices. Use if only player 1 works.
; Leave no_merge_pid empty to apply this to all devices with the same VID.
;no_merge_vid=0x045E
;no_merge_pid=0x028E
; Same as above but can add multiple devices (one entry per VIDPID). Format is VIDPID in hex number
;no_merge_vidpid=0x12345678
;no_merge_vidpid=0x11112222
; Speeds in sniper/non-sniper modes of mouse emulation by joystick
; 0 - (default) - faster move in non-sniper mode, slower move in sniper mode.
; 1 - movement speeds are swapped.
sniper_mode=0
; Uncomment following option if you don't want to see a second line for long file names in listing.
;browse_expand=0
; 0 - disable MiSTer logo in Menu core
logo=1
; Custom shared folder for core supporting this feature (currently minimig and ao486 only)
; Can be relative to core's home dir or absolute path.
; Path must exist before core start to use it, or it will fail.
; Make sure USB device is mounted before use shared folder on USB!
shared_folder=
; Custom aspect ratio
;custom_aspect_ratio_1=16:10
;custom_aspect_ratio_2=1:1
; use specific (VID/PID) mouse X movement as a spinner and paddle. Use VID=0xFFFF/PID=0xFFFF to use all mice as spinners.
;spinner_vid=0x1BCF
;spinner_pid=0x0005
; spinner_throttle with base value 100 gives one spinner step per one tick. Higher value makes spinner slower.
; Lower than 100 makes spinner faster. Negative value gives opposite direction.
;spinner_throttle=-50
; 0 - X axis, 1 - Y axis.
;spinner_axis=1
; Default filters for video scaler. Paths must be relative to "Filters" folder without leading slash.
;vfilter_default=LCD Effects/LCD_Effect_07.txt
;vfilter_vertical_default=<some_file>
;vfilter_scanlines_default=<some_file>
; Default filters for audio. Paths must be relative to "Filters_audio" folder without leading slash.
;afilter_default=LPF2000_3tap.txt
; Defines internal joypad mapping from virtual SNES mapping in main to core mapping
; Set to 0 for name mapping (jn) (e.g. A button in SNES core = A button on controller regardless of position on pad)
; Set to 1 for positional mapping (jp) (e.g. A button in SNES core = East button on controller regardless of button name)
gamepad_defaults=0
; Write out file name under the cursor in browser for external integration
; External application or script may parse the info and do some additional actions and/or send info to 3rd party server.
; Warning: it may slowdown the system or add lag while browsing the files in OSD depending on external app/script.
log_file_entry=0
; Automatically disconnect (and shutdown) Bluetooth input device if not use specified amount of time.
; Some controllers have no automatic shutdown built in and will keep connection till battery dry out.
; 0 - don't disconnect automatically, otherwise it's amount of minutes.
bt_auto_disconnect=0
; Reset Bluetooth dongle before pair dialog.
; Some dongles may have problem to pair if not explicitly reset.
; Some dongles (mostly CSR) have problem to pair with BLE if not reset in advance.
; Consequence of reset: some input devices get shutdown after reset.
bt_reset_before_pair=0
;default Shadow Mask
;shmask_default=VGA.txt
;default shadow mask mode:
; 0 - none, 1 - 1x, 2 - 2x, 3 - 1x Rotated, 4 - 2x Rotated
;shmask_mode_default=1
; Wait for specific mount before start the core.
; Attention: waiting is performing BEFORE core start, so no message will be displayed on screen!
; It's useful for debugging when core is loaded from USB blaster and games folder is on USB or Network drive.
; This option cannot be used when defmra in CONFSTR is used (i.e. if arcade rbf is loaded directly not through MRA).
; This option is ignored for Menu core.
;waitmount=/media/usb0
; Overrides for video mode
; When the core's video mode matches the parameters in the section header, any options in the section override options from MiSTer and core sections.
; Refresh rate in header is optional and, if present, must match exactly the output from video_info or the logs. For example, if it says "60.0Hz", the header needs to be ***@***.***" to match.
; When the core changes video mode, MiSTer will first look for a matching ***@***.*** section.
; If no match is found, it will fall back to a matching WIDTHxHEIGHT section with no refresh rate.
; If there is still no match, MiSTer/core options will be used without overrides.
; [video=640x400]
; ...
; ***@***.***
; ...
[GameNWatch]
direct_video=0
video_mode=640,16,96,48,480,11,2,31,25170 ; ***@***.***
[AO486]
direct_video=0 ; use the scaler
vsync_adjust=2 ; minimal lag
video_mode=640,8,58,78,240,1,3,18,12324 ; 15khz FOR TV or PVM
;Set it to "Variable" in the video settings in the menu of the core
;video_mode=640,16,96,48,480,11,2,31,25170; This is the "catch-all" resolution that will be used if an undefined video mode is detected. This example may be too high of a resolution for your monitor. You can use video_mode=1 instead for example.
***@***.***
;video_mode=640,7,108,30,400,13,2,34,24708,0,1 ; ***@***.***@31.48kHz VGA era games including 320x200, 320x400, 640x400 @70.1Hz
***@***.***
;video_mode=640,7,108,30,400,13,2,34,24708,0,1 ; ***@***.***@31.48kHz VGA Games including 320x200, 320x400, 640x400 @70.1Hz
***@***.***
;video_mode=720,15,108,46,400,13,2,34,27983,0,1 ; ***@***.***@31.48kHz DOS Text
;experimental modes
***@***.***
;video_mode=640,25,130,75,398,50,29,50,27370,0,1 ; ***@***.***@31.46kHz Jazz Jackrabbit
***@***.***
;video_mode=640,40,96,64,480,14,2,31,26430,0,1 ; ***@***.*** Epic Pinball (temp modeline, still under development)
***@***.***
;video_mode=640,40,96,64,480,14,2,31,26430,0,1 ; ***@***.*** (temp modeline, still under development)
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The MiSTer.ini gets modified when you send it via email in a reply to the github issues, it changes all the comments for the resolutions, but not a major issue. I don't see anything unusual in this ini that would cause an issue. What is the make and model of your TV? |
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It's a Microvitec M1438, multisync monitor.
I have an original SonSon and it doesn't have issues.
Also it's the only arcade core where I have this issue.
What is the HSync and Vsync of the core?
…On 10/11/2022 22:48, birdybro wrote:
The MiSTer.ini gets modified when you send it via email in a reply to
the github issues, it changes all the comments for the resolutions,
but not a major issue.
I don't see anything unusual in this ini that would cause an issue.
What is the make and model of your TV?
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How is your original Son Son hooked up to this monitor? Through a JAMMA converter to the VGA pinout? |
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Scart from supergun to vga adapter ( with csync on hsync pin)
To me , it seems the monitor doesn’t like the sync pulses from the core
Il giorno gio 10 nov 2022 alle 23:33 birdybro ***@***.***> ha
scritto:
How is your original Son Son hooked up to this monitor? Through a
converter to the VGA pinout?
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@kold669 can you test out the rbf in this zip file please? |
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Tested briefly before going to work but has same issue.
If you need i can take some measurements of the hsync and vsync out of the
original Board.
Il ven 11 nov 2022, 05:27 birdybro ***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Sonson_20221110.zip
<https://github.com/MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer/files/9986484/Sonson_20221110.zip>
@kold669 <https://github.com/kold669> can you test out the rbf in this
zip file please?
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Measurements would always help in this kind of situation! :) |
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The core should be outputting an hsync of length 55 and vsync of length 2. I can change them if I can get a good reference from the original. Thanks! |
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Hello,
here are some measurements for CSYNC on edge connector and Hsync and
Vsync taken at the inputs of the 74LS08 which combine them to Csync
Hopefully they are of help! :)
Csync:
https://ibb.co/qygGLsb
Hsync:
https://ibb.co/R0nwM75
Vsync:
https://ibb.co/MkHKxz2
…On 11/11/2022 17:47, MikeS11 wrote:
The core should be outputting an hsync of length 55 and vsync of
length 2. I can change them if I can get a good reference from the
original. Thanks!
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Thanks, the current core I think differs in the vertical display window, being at 262 lines vs 282 on the real arcade machine? (59hz vs 55hz)? Ill have a further look :) Thanks |
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Vsync of pcb is 55.4hz (actually it varies between 55.37 and 55.43)
The issue with My monitor seems to be related to pulses because it can
vsync from 45 to 90hz and csync from 15khz to 40khz.
I have a similar problem with qbert actual pcb which is known to output non
standard sync pulses which can cause troubles with a lot of monitors
Il ven 11 nov 2022, 20:32 MikeS11 ***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Thanks, the current core I think differs in the vertical display window,
being at 262 lines vs 282 on the real arcade machine? (59hz vs 55hz)? Ill
have a further look :) Thanks
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I extended the Vsync by one to see if it helps |
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Still no luck.
I will try to measure Csync from the core on the oscilloscope to see if
there are differences in the pulses
…On 11/11/2022 21:02, MikeS11 wrote:
Arcade-Sonson_20221111.zip
<https://github.com/MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer/files/9992966/Arcade-Sonson_20221111.zip>
I extended the Vsync by one to see if it helps
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Are you Corrado Tomaselli? If so, there's a mystery here:
MAME is currently set to 57.37Hz instead. |
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If you can measure the duration in the Syncs, that would be helpful as well. |
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Hello,
yes it's me but it's strange I corrected to 57.37, probably I made a
typo back then!
the Vsync is between 55.37 and 55.43hz as you can see from oscilloscope
measurements ( duty cycle is longer on 55.43hz)
In the meanwhile I could display properly Son Son core on my multisync
monitor. I used my Sync Splitter based on LMH1980 IC to output Hsync and
Vsync from core Csync.
So definitely my monitor doesn't like the Csync pulses from the core
Also I noticed that the core Vsync is 59hz but it should be 55.4hz as
per my measurements
If I have time I will check with my oscilloscope Csync pulses from core,
very curious
…On 11/11/2022 21:29, birdybro wrote:
Are you Corrado Tomaselli? If so, there's a mystery here:
|0.156: Corrado Tomaselli corrected audio CPU clock for Son Son as
measured on PCB. Changed M6809 CPU1/2 clock speeds to 1.5MHz and VSync
to 57.37 Hz.|
MAME is currently set to 57.37Hz instead.
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birdybro
added a commit
to birdybro/mame
that referenced
this issue
Nov 11, 2022
Source of measurements --> MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer#1 (comment) The value originally set must have been a typo, according to @kold669 (aka Corrado Tomaselli). The original PCB alternates between 55.37Hz and 55.43Hz and it is Corrado's suggestion to run it at 55.40Hz.
It's possible that slingshot (original author of the MiST core) set this in this core to be more compatible with monitors because MiST only has Analog Video output, or the core was based on another core that used those numbers and it was never adjusted. |
|
I find a way to measure the csync from the core and comparing to the
actual pcb sync pulses seems longer.
Core CSYNC
https://ibb.co/djykK7X
I link also an interesting article about syncs
https://martin-jones.com/2014/09/16/that-syncing-feeling-classic-arcade-games-that-wont-stay-still/
…On 11/11/2022 23:28, birdybro wrote:
Also I noticed that the core Vsync is 59hz but it should be 55.4hz
as per my measurements
It's possible that slingshot set this in this core to be more
compatible with monitors or the core was based on another core that
used those numbers and it was never adjusted.
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Try this, I brought it down to 55hz as well as shrinking the hsync to the standard 32 from its 55 it was set to. Things are off center a bit but Ill fix that later |
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It works! Well Done!
As a bonus:
Old Core Csync:
https://ibb.co/2FdZch7
8.6uS
New Core Csync ( which matches 99% the Csync pulse from the pcb)
https://ibb.co/MD1VpqW
4.6uS pulse
If you can make it 55.4hz it would be better
The screen is decentered as the pcb with default monitor settings so it
is actually correct as it should be
PS: with the new version of the core, I cannot register the coin input
and also the core "reset" and "reset to OSD" don't work
Previously Start 2P and coin were swapped
…On 12/11/2022 01:09, MikeS11 wrote:
Arcade-Sonson_20221115.zip
<https://github.com/MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer/files/9993705/Arcade-Sonson_20221115.zip>
Try this, I brought it down to 55hz as well as shrinking the hsync to
the standard 32 from its 55 it was set to. Things are off center a bit
but Ill fix that later
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Sorry never mind for the coin input not working. Was My fault
Il sab 12 nov 2022, 01:09 MikeS11 ***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Arcade-Sonson_20221115.zip
<https://github.com/MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer/files/9993705/Arcade-Sonson_20221115.zip>
Try this, I brought it down to 55hz as well as shrinking the hsync to the
standard 32 from its 55 it was set to. Things are off center a bit but Ill
fix that later
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Ok, I've released a new update that adds the following:
|
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Great job! on my monitor works both 59.6hz and 55.4hz |
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Ill Work on it for the next update, thanks for the help!
…On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 13:25, kold669 ***@***.***> wrote:
Great job! on my monitor works both 59.6hz and 55.4hz
I have two requests if it's possible:
Extend the pos offsets to -+8
Adding hiscore saving
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rb6502
pushed a commit
to mamedev/mame
that referenced
this issue
Nov 24, 2022
Source of measurements --> MikeS11/Arcade-Sonson_MiSTer#1 (comment) The value originally set must have been a typo, according to @kold669 (aka Corrado Tomaselli). The original PCB alternates between 55.37Hz and 55.43Hz and it is Corrado's suggestion to run it at 55.40Hz.
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Using direct video=1 , the core doesn't sync properly on 15khz CRT
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