[WIP] docs: Add VALUES.md #15
Conversation
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Ayo.js will explore new structures and framings for corporate relationships in such a way that its individual humans, not the corporations that employ them, are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, and students all feel like they hold the same footing as corporate employees at all levels of the project. | ||
|
|
||
| ## Awoo <!-- not keeping this here unless y'all really want it but it's making me happy to see here for now -Hal --> |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
i vote that we ACTUALLY remove this, especially since awoo is already mentioned at the top, and is therefore already part of our brand
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Documentation, long-term support, translations and localizations, package management, libuv, v8 and Chakra, builds/ops, testing and its infrastructure, hardware and IoT, Android, streams, community events, facilitation, moderation and education. These and more are all concerns that can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified for their individual tasks than a central decision body. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js wants to go further than Node Core did in spreading responsibility across the project, so everyone can focus and specialize better than before. They should be able to organize and manage their own subprojects in a way that is effective and efficient for their individual unique needs. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Can the they here be clarified? I'm pretty sure this refers to "contributors", but want to make sure it's clear
VALUES.md
Outdated
| All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and benefit from the software underlying Ayo.js. Many contributors, in fact, might have their efforts in the project directly funded by them. But, this can often turn into such direct reliance on corporations that they can essentially seize control of a project -- or struggle for power over it while individual contributors are left wondering if they can ever influence the project themselves. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js will explore new structures and framings for corporate relationships in such a way that its individual humans, not the corporations that employ them, are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, and students all feel like they hold the same footing as corporate employees at all levels of the project. | ||
|
|
VALUES.md
Outdated
| @@ -0,0 +1,30 @@ | |||
| # Ayo.js Community Values | |||
|
|
|||
| We don't care how you pronounce it: be it "ey-yo", "I-oh", or "Awooooo" -- the Ayo.js project strives to create an environment where you can feel at home and focus on your contributions to this nice shared space that we all benefit from. | |||
There was a problem hiding this comment.
ok this is just me but starting a document with we don't care etc etc makes me feel weird, even though the context is completely ok
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I agree that it is a slightly odd start. Honestly, swapping this paragraph and the next ("Ayo.js is about the humans that help make it happen...") would solve this, in my opinion.
Alternatively the start of the paragraph could be changed to something like "You can pronounce it however you want:"
There was a problem hiding this comment.
done and done
(thanks @hypesystem for coming with actual suggestions for rewording!)
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Ayo.js is more than the code in its repository. | ||
|
|
||
| Documentation, long-term support, translations and localizations, package management, libuv, v8 and Chakra, builds/ops, testing and its infrastructure, hardware and IoT, Android, streams, community events, facilitation, moderation and education. These and more are all concerns that can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified for their individual tasks than a central decision body. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
nit: maybe replace their individual tasks with these individual tasks?
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Documentation, long-term support, translations and localizations, package management, libuv, v8 and Chakra, builds/ops, testing and its infrastructure, hardware and IoT, Android, streams, community events, facilitation, moderation and education. These and more are all concerns that can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified for their individual tasks than a central decision body. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js wants to go further than Node Core did in spreading responsibility across the project, so everyone can focus and specialize better than before. Contributors should be able to organize and manage their own subprojects in a way that is effective and efficient for their individual unique needs. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
individual unique is basically the same word twice, isn't it?
There was a problem hiding this comment.
They are unrelated words, but yeah, I think “individual” is implicit here.
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Humans are more important than APIs and Benchmarks. | ||
|
|
||
| Technical discussions are difficult, especially in large communities with members with all sorts of perspectives. You're bound to find yourself in situations with no clear consensus, with new concerns being brought up on a regular basis, and things that might seem insignificant in other contexts suddenly explode. |
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Technical discussions are difficult, especially in large communities with members with all sorts of perspectives. You're bound to find yourself in situations with no clear consensus, with new concerns being brought up on a regular basis, and things that might seem insignificant in other contexts suddenly explode. | ||
|
|
||
| The Ayo.js project's perspective is that when this happens, it often takes a toll on the well-being of the members participating, or it prevents potential members from contributing again, if at all. It also recognizes that the difference between individual choices is less important than the ability to come to a perfect technical decision. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
i really can't parse the last sentence here? i feel like this could be elaborated better
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I'm not of a fan of "perfect" here, tradeoffs abound forever
|
/cc @ayojs/core |
VALUES.md
Outdated
| @@ -0,0 +1,30 @@ | |||
| # Ayo.js Community Values | |||
|
|
|||
| We don't care how you pronounce it: be it "ey-yo", "I-oh", or "Awooooo" -- the Ayo.js project strives to create an environment where you can feel at home and focus on your contributions to this nice shared space that we all benefit from. | |||
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I agree that it is a slightly odd start. Honestly, swapping this paragraph and the next ("Ayo.js is about the humans that help make it happen...") would solve this, in my opinion.
Alternatively the start of the paragraph could be changed to something like "You can pronounce it however you want:"
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Ayo.js is more than the code in its repository. | ||
|
|
||
| Documentation, long-term support, translations and localizations, package management, libuv, v8 and Chakra, builds/ops, testing and its infrastructure, hardware and IoT, Android, streams, community events, facilitation, moderation and education. These and more are all concerns that can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified for their individual tasks than a central decision body. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I think there is an obvious "greater than the sum of its parts" point hiding in here that would be cool to make more explicit 😄
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I’m not sure how to make that point…
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Ayo.js wants to go further than Node Core did in spreading responsibility across the project, so everyone can focus and specialize better than before. Contributors should be able to organize and manage their own subprojects in a way that is effective and efficient for their individual unique needs. | ||
|
|
||
| ## Humans are more important than red tape. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I find this heading a bit weird, probably because "red tape" to me is always a negative expression. So of course humans are more important than red tape. Maybe "strictly following the rules" or something similar would make the point clearer? (Red tape is a bit loaded imo, but then again that is kind of the point...)
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I’m going with “hiding behind the rules” but feel free to keep suggestions coming
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| The Ayo.js project's perspective is that when this happens, it often takes a toll on the well-being of the members participating, or it prevents potential members from contributing again, if at all. It also recognizes that the difference between individual choices is less important than the ability to come to a perfect technical decision. | ||
|
|
||
| Projects change, evolve, and find themselves dealing with new concerns all the time. In all technical matters, Ayo.js will take into account that in the end, it's the people making those decisions that matter most, not the decisions themselves. It's ok for code to be imperfect. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Suggestion: it's the people making those decisions, not the decisions themselves, that matter most.
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Humans are more important than corporations. | ||
|
|
||
| All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and benefit from the software underlying Ayo.js. Many contributors, in fact, might have their efforts in the project directly funded by them. But, this can often turn into such direct reliance on corporations that they can essentially seize control of a project -- or struggle for power over it while individual contributors are left wondering if they can ever influence the project themselves. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Turning this into a more general statement (about all open source software) would be a strong statement!
(The next paragraph emphasizes Ayo.js's approach, so this paragraph doesn't need to be Ayo.js-specific.)
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and benefit from the software underlying Ayo.js. Many contributors, in fact, might have their efforts in the project directly funded by them. But, this can often turn into such direct reliance on corporations that they can essentially seize control of a project -- or struggle for power over it while individual contributors are left wondering if they can ever influence the project themselves. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js will explore new structures and framings for corporate relationships in such a way that its individual humans, not the corporations that employ them, are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, and students all feel like they hold the same footing as corporate employees at all levels of the project. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Any thoughts on how to deal with the the perceived greater importance of corporate-backed members due to simply being granted more time to contribute?
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I am not an expert, but: It would be nice to show appreciation for individual contributors much louder. One idea that was floated by but never got implemented was to create a tiling with all contributor’s github icons that could be displayed in our README.
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Ayo.js is more than the code in its repository. | ||
|
|
||
| Documentation, long-term support, translations and localizations, package management, libuv, v8 and Chakra, builds/ops, testing and its infrastructure, hardware and IoT, Android, streams, community events, facilitation, moderation and education. These and more are all concerns that can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified for their individual tasks than a central decision body. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
If we want to further detach group responsibilities, we should make sure we can come up with a solid cooperation strategy when dealing with inter-connected concerns.
There are many parts of the project which can not be fully isolated, at least not without a huge effort first. We should be prepared for different groups to have to collaborate on issues and have a clearly defined understanding of how to resolve disputes or differing needs.
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Humans are more important than red tape. | ||
|
|
||
| If governance policy is not serving the values set forth here, that governance policy should change with the required agility. Following the governance policy to the letter should not take precedence over staying true to our stated values, not to mention the well-being of our humans. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Do we need a specific group with authority to change governance policy in the event it is found to be insufficient? How would that group be held accountable?
|
Maybe check out the BCL here https://www.gitsoul.com/BCL/BCL/src/master/LICENSE |
|
@fredhampton I really like that license, but I am afraid we might need legal counsel for seeing whether switching is even an option we could take? I also kind of feel like any licensing discussion would better be had in a different repository. |
[ci skip]
|
I also feel like licenses are the completely wrong place to be doing this kind of work. Let me be clear here for the sake of others reading: We're not here to discuss the CoC itself, and the CoC itself is not an issue or particularly controversial. This is about effective community and governance, and setting priorities for ourselves. And by "community and governance" I don't mean "ban anyone who disagrees with us". I mean "have systems in place such that community participation is more effective all-around". Stuff such as how votes happen, who's responsible for what, how project responsibilities are divided, etc. |
|
BCL, as with Crockford's 'No Evil' license, is also not free software nor OSI-compliant. |
|
Yes the BCL is not OSI-Compliant and this means that
|
|
@fredhampton please open a separate issue for this. This document covers overall values, not licensing issues. If you want to integrate the values you listed into this document, please go ahead and propose something more concrete than the list of items. I don't think it fits very neatly into the form of the document to have things in that format. |
VALUES.md
Outdated
| If governance policy is not serving the values set forth here, that governance | ||
| policy should change with the required agility. Following the governance policy | ||
| to the letter should not take precedence over staying true to our stated values, | ||
| not to mention the well-being of our humans. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
This is a very powerful paragraph, is it possible to clarify a bit on the project's stance regarding precedence of agreed-upon values and a fractional opposition? Perhaps the implicit case-by-case basis of issues like this could be addressed by simply changing the last sentence to "Following the governance policy to the letter will not take precedence over staying true to our stated values or the well-being of our humans."
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| The Ayo.js project's perspective is that when this happens, it often takes a | ||
| toll on the well-being of the members participating, or it prevents potential | ||
| members from contributing again, if at all. It also recognizes that the |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Perhaps, for clarity:
"The Ayo.js project's perspective is that when this happens, it often takes a toll on the well-being of the members participating, at times preventing repeat contributions or precluding new contributors outright."
VALUES.md
Outdated
| toll on the well-being of the members participating, or it prevents potential | ||
| members from contributing again, if at all. It also recognizes that the | ||
| difference between individual choices is less important than the ability to | ||
| come to a perfect technical decision. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
"perfect" makes me feel a little uneasy here. Perhaps "appropriate" could be a better choice?
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I’m switching it to “appropriate” but would have to admit neither word seems perfect to me. ;)
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Nice! I think that fits the sentiment pretty well 😸
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| Projects change, evolve, and find themselves dealing with new concerns all the | ||
| time. In all technical matters, Ayo.js will take into account that in the end, | ||
| it is the people making those decisions that matter most, not the decisions |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Perhaps, in order to be a bit more inclusive:
"it is the people making those decisions" => "it is the people making, implementing, and maintaining"
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| ## Humans are more important than corporations. | ||
|
|
||
| All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
"corporations and other organizations" => "institutions" may be a more inclusive word to use here.
Additionally, for clarity it might be good to combine the two sentences like...
"All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and benefit from the software underlying Ayo.js, and many of Ayo.js's contributors may be directly compensated by them for their efforts on the project."
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Are you suggesting for the whole phrase to be replaced by “institutions”? I am not sure I’d prefer that myself… in the context of Node.js, corporate politics did/do play a special role
The rest sgtm!
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Yeah! :3 Roughly suggesting that we could collapse the corporation and other organizations phrase into "institutions", but given the past involvement of corporations with Node, maybe just adding in "institutions" or "other entities" to cover broader groups like government agencies, large activist groups, or other potential significant actors.
VALUES.md
Outdated
|
|
||
| All sorts of corporations and other organizations around the world use and | ||
| benefit from the software underlying Ayo.js. Many contributors, in fact, might | ||
| have their efforts in the project directly funded by them. But this can often |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
For me at least, some of the impact of this paragraph is lost with the current writing.
my (admittedly not at all close to perfect) shot-in-the-dark at it follows:
"While potentially adding a significant amount of additional resources to the project, these contributions can precipitate into such direct reliance on institutions that contribute monetary funds to the project that the potential for abuse of their power or outright attempts to usurp control of a project can leave individual contributors or smaller institutions wondering if they can ever have any influence over the project at all"
VALUES.md
Outdated
| can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified | ||
| for these individual tasks than a central decision body. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js wants to go further than Node.js did in spreading responsibility across |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Can we standardize on "will" instead of "want" in this sentence, given that similar sentences all use "want"? I like how "will" makes a clear stand on what the project's goals are.
| Ayo.js will explore new structures and framings for corporate relationships | ||
| in such a way that its individual humans, not the corporations that employ them, | ||
| are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. | ||
| Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Can we standardize on "will" here as well? Or "is" if we feel as if we're already there.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I like the strength, but I feel weird about changing it in form from a guideline to an affirmation. If, for whatever reason, we fail to meet that goal in some way, we don't want to consider the project a failure, we just want amend the project in a way that serves these values. To me, "will" serves the idea of failure and "should" serves the idea of aspiration, of accepting our imperfections and striving to improve ourselves.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Fair! Especially in a document discussing vision I prefer to use the more concrete "will" as it clearly shows our conviction. Also, if we fail, is that a bad thing? Surely criteria that we set out to achieve and fail on can serve for very good points of discussion when we are evaluating how and where we want to improve.
| in such a way that its individual humans, not the corporations that employ them, | ||
| are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. | ||
| Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, | ||
| and students all feel like they hold the same footing as corporate employees |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
"all feel like they hold" => "all feel like they can hold" feels more accurate, as there will still be election processes and division of power I imagine.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Looking real good, just had a few comments.
Additionally, as I review this, I'm realizing we may have cause in the future to amend this document. It should be more concrete than, say, governance rules or contribution guidelines. This document exists to guide the creation of more specific rules and structures, and if this changes substantially, that may be cause for another fork or some other sort of significant overhaul. The possibility remains, though, that clarification will be needed for a value. Perhaps we'll want to enumerate another value to provide additional guidance.
So, I'm wondering what you all think of adding a final section providing guidelines for amending the values document. I can see a case for instead putting those guidelines in CONTRIBUTING.md, but to me this feels like a special case.
I can't express enough how happy I am that y'all found my draft helpful and that it's evolved into something cohesive so quickly. I'm glad to be a part of this.
VALUES.md
Outdated
| can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified | ||
| for these individual tasks than a central decision body. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js wants to go further than Node.js did in spreading responsibility across |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
(nitpick) With "did" here, do we want to add an "as of" date or some other qualification? If node changes its governance structure, this could get confusing.
| are ultimately still the ones determining the direction of the project. | ||
| Ayo.js should be a space where independent contributors, freelancers, hobbyists, | ||
| and students all feel like they hold the same footing as corporate employees | ||
| at all levels of the project. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Do y'all think it'd be worth adding another heading expanding on our desire to create a welcoming space for aspiring contributors? The other values work to that end, but I believe it's worth strongly stating as its own explicit goal past the mention beyond the mention here and in the heading.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Happy to take suggestions for wording if you have any :)
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I'll think on it! I'm about to head to bed but I'll mull it over and if nobody's beat me to it I'll take a crack at it tomorrow evening.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
After mulling it over, I think this is a natural extension of the other elements of the statements here. Others should feel free to add this if they think otherwise, but I'm happy with this where it is, and I'm feeling like I'd rather make an addition later than leave this in limbo longer than it needs to be.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Newcomers may have a bit more trouble finding space than existing folks, so maybe it is worth it?
Or perhaps only in the other guidelines, unnecessary as an extra stated core value as this already covers that?
VALUES.md
Outdated
| on a regular basis, and things that might seem insignificant in other | ||
| contexts suddenly exploding. | ||
|
|
||
| The Ayo.js project's perspective is that when this happens, it often takes a |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
It's not completely clear to me what "this" means in this context. I think this might have been brought up in one of the previous reviews.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I’m replacing it by “such things” which is not really that much better, but I think it might clarify that it references the previous paragraph
[ci skip]
Yes, this document is open source :) |
|
@addaleax that crossed my mind! I'm just thinking the contribution guidelines for our values may differ from those from other parts of the project. That may be a misguided thought, though. |
|
@Harrison-M I would personally think that treating organizational documents and statements not differently from code, and changes to those not differently as well, has always been one of the nice things about Node. :) But I’m obviously biased on that. |
|
@addaleax Yeah, that makes total sense, and in any other case I'd wholeheartedly agree. I'm only halfheartedly agreeing here because this is a foundational, guiding document for other changes, so amending it feels like it'd be more of a serious affair! But maybe that seriousness and consideration should emerge naturally from the review process. |
|
Are men welcome in this community? As it seems the document author has stated in a tweet that the goal is to purge them:
edited by @addaleax: put cissexist text in `<details>`By men, are we talking people with XY chromosomes, or people identifying as the masculine gender role, or both?When I attended the Node.js Interactive Europe 2016 conference, despite their Code of Conduct, there were several uninclusive things that occurred, those that I will detail now include:
I've also been told to "go fuck myself" by another committee member when I questioned the notion of talking politics to one's twitter followers, when those twitter followers follow you for tech news: https://twitter.com/balupton/status/825974683723902976 - he did apologise which is great. But it still seems relevant as from what I've gathered, a lot of what this fork is about, is reaction to how Rod has conducted himself on Twitter - of which I've never seen such behaviour from him. So given the above, I wonder as a human, will I feel welcome in this community? or does it require a certain political lean or identity to be? This is a sincere concern. As so far the actions described above leave me in doubt. |
|
Since you see this document being co-authored by men, I think your question is already answered in this thread. answer to the moderated question aboveBy men, are we talking people with XY chromosomes, or people identifying as the masculine gender role, or both? We’re obviously not running karyograms on contributors, so I think that question is implicitly answered as well. Edit: Also, I hope it’s clear that your question is transphobic af, so please moderate it. Please note that Node’s CoC is still in effect, and trolling is just going to get you moderated/blocked. |
|
I'd also like to to state that the issues you have with Node are not something Ayo here can moderate, as this is a separate entity from Node. They have avenues for you to alert them to the issues you have stated. As a singular entity that only speaks for myself, I believe that anyone of any gender has valuable contributions to make and should not be hindered to do so if they are acting with respect. I do also recognise that white cisgender men have a vast amount of privilege compared to others. This does not mean that they cannot experience hardship, but they do experience the every day life of what is to be a marginalised person. |
|
Can't edit my above post on my phone so I'd like to say that if you would like to discuss such concerns, I'd request you open a new issue so we can discuss it in a more appropriate place. |
|
and I meant that they do not experience the experiences of marginalised folk. |
I do not believe any of it violates the CoC. What changes would you make and why? Have I violated something? If I know what it is, I will amend the post here.
Happy to do that. Shall I do that now? |
I’ve edited your post to put the question asking whether “men” would be identified over a specific combination of chromosomes behind |
|
Thanks. I'll pick this up tomorrow as the lateness of night where I am located is making me tried (it is 12.30am where I am), and these discussions are best had rested. If more amendments need to be made in the meantime, please do so, as I wish for the discussion to remain productive as my concerns are sincere (although please state the amendments so I can catch up tomorrow on the changes). Thanks everyone. 🤗 |
|
@balupton as the person you're quoting, I would like to think much higher of your ability to sniff out sarcasm and snark when employed against explicitly hostile actors. I would really like to think higher of your ability to do that here. That said, I'm just going to answer you straight up: men of all shapes and sizes and melanin levels are welcome, absolutely. I believe that a core part of any CoC is to protect everyone involved from being attacked just for who they are. I also want to remind you that no one here can have their genes brought into question because genetic analysis to prove XX/XY/etc chromosome layouts is prohibitively expensive, but if you have done such a study for yourself, I'm sure it'll be taken into consideration -- but if you don't have such a thing, it doesn't need to enter conversations because it's irrelevant. My credentials for this involve WeAllJS, a community I founded that was intended on finding a structure for a tech community where cis white men (a vast majority in the tech industry right now -- I don't use this term as any kind of insult), and other folks in the industry could exist in a common space without anyone feeling like they're underserved by the community. It's been pretty successful, and men are still the majority in that space, and they add plenty of value, much like any other member. Part of being able to work together is to learn about how to interact with people you're not familiar with, and WeAllJS prioritizes folks having their learning experiences without being afraid that a single messup will ruin them. I believe in very strong CoCs because they help people know what the boundaries are. I also believe that it's very important that CoCs not be threatening, and that enforcement be empathic, respectful, and incremental: 99.9% of the time, CoC violations involve another member (not an admin) going "hey could you not say it like that?", the other person going "oh sorry I didn't mean it that way", and the message is edited and everyone moves on and there's no further controversy about it. It's a really effective system. As far as your tone, I hear at least some frustration. That definitely can come off as hostility. And that's probably not very conducive to productive conversation with other members here if you're intending on keeping it up. You are absolutely welcome in this community, but I will let you know that many of us are quite familiar with dogwhistle language, and the leaning you're emphasizing when using terms like "groupthink", "biological male", "chromosomes", etc. Part of the thing with dogwhistle politics, of course, is that it's designed to give you a level of plausible deniability, so I'm not going to get into an argument over it, but I encourage you to be flexible with feedback if it is the case that you accidentally overlap with the hostile implications that other groups use that language for. As in "hey, could you not say it that way?" being responded to "oh sorry I didn't intend that, let me reword it", and we'll be good. If you are genuinely using the dogwhistle version, and you call that "politics", I will tell you that such genuinely dehumanizing "political" stances will not be welcome anywhere around me: I will not work with you if you make it your business to challenge my humanity, specially to my face. |
Edited: The tweet was meant as a joke -Fishrock123Looks good, but I feel it's missing something.
Should add this to the values statement. 🙄 Edited by @zkat - sorry, did someone say "joke"? More like actual direct responses to sexism. Check your context and try and be a bit more constructive when trying to throw your gotchas at me.More "jokes" from the "professional mantagonizer":
Great stuff. Let's get these concepts codified in the values document. |
VALUES.md
Outdated
| can be handled separately and by members who might be much better qualified | ||
| for these individual tasks than a central decision body. | ||
|
|
||
| Ayo.js will to go further than Node.js did in spreading responsibility across |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
There's a word missing here, I reckon: "Ayo.js will [something?] to go further"
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Or maybe the 'to' is just extra?
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Looks like the to is extra, since "will" was added in response to this comment. I'll pop it out of there real fast.
| Projects change, evolve, and find themselves dealing with new concerns all the | ||
| time. In all technical matters, Ayo.js will take into account that in the end, | ||
| it is the people making, implementing, and maintaining that matter most, not the | ||
| decisions themselves. It’s okay for code to be imperfect. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
It’s okay for code to be imperfect.
Uhhh. I'd prefer code that ran faster and was optimized. People shouldn't feel ousted because their pull was denied because it had garbage code in it. If this fork turns into a bloated mess, people won't use it. 🤷
There was a problem hiding this comment.
.....this isn't about ousting anyone, and I have not the remotest clue where you got that.
This is about not dragging on technical conversations to the point of diminishing returns, and framing them in as constructive a way as possible. Perfect is the enemy of good.
VALUES.md
Outdated
| a toll on the well-being of the members participating, at times preventing | ||
| repeated contributions or precluding new contributors outright. It also | ||
| recognizes that the difference between individual choices is less important than | ||
| the ability to come to a appropriate technical decision. |
VALUES.md
Outdated
| ## Humans are more important than APIs and Benchmarks. | ||
|
|
||
| Technical discussions are difficult, especially in large communities with | ||
| members with all sorts of perspectives. You are bound to find yourself in |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
The second person is used only in two places in the document. Here, and for the 'pronounciation' paragraph. I think it would be better to rewrite those two sections to use third person/passive like the rest of the document, for consistent style.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Yeah, definitely agree, good to have that consistent. I'll go ahead and fix those since it's a small change, if it's no good feel free to revert/change. Thanks passcod!
|
On making the edits in c8c16d5, changing this passage to third person felt right, but the second paragraph's perspective seems like a good, casual introduction, and I couldn't really think of a way to keep that feeling while changing it to third person. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it and can keep a similar tone, I'd love to see it. cc @passcod |
|
Looks good. There is one thing I've been thinking about which I'm not sure if worth value-ify-ing or not (or if my reasons make sense). Perhaps we should add an extension of "Trust the Ouch". This is a very important value to have in a community context - certainly in social situations (e.g. in the WeAllJS CoC / enforcement policy), but perhaps also in technical situations. That is, if people consistently say that something is confusing, simply dismissing it as a learning curve can be harmful. Certainly, there will always be edges (bah, computers!), but I think it could be a good value to listen to and back up improvements for such "ouches". Please discuss! :D |
|
Agreed. When someone complains it's always because something could be better about their experience. That applies as much in technical experience as it does in social experience. |
|
@ayojs/core i'm giving this PR 2 more hours until i land it, does anyone have any other objections before that? EDIT: i'm postponing this until tomorrow, sry |
VALUES.md
Outdated
| @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ | |||
| # Ayo.js Community Values | |||
|
|
|||
| Ayo.js is about the humans that help make it happen. It's a project aimed at | |||
There was a problem hiding this comment.
"Humans" repeated twice in such a short emphasised space reads odd.
| Ayo.js project strives to create an environment where you can feel at home and | ||
| focus on your contributions to this nice shared space that we all benefit from. | ||
|
|
||
| ## Ayo.js is more than the code in its repository. |
There was a problem hiding this comment.
Headings don't usually have full stops.
There was a problem hiding this comment.
This was an intentional decision I made when I wrote the initial draft to make these stand out as definitive statements in addition to headings. I'm fine with changing that if it doesn't work.
This adds a document that describes the shared values of the Ayo.js project. PR-URL: #15 Reviewed-By: Harrison Massey <harrison.massey@gmail.com> Reviewed-By: Anna Henningsen <anna@addaleax.net> Reviewed-By: James Spencer <hello@jmes.tech> Reviewed-By: Olivia Hugger <olivia@fastmail.com>
|
landed in 12a3994! |
ghost
closed this
Rendered for convenience
This is an initial PR draft of a community values document. Based on a super helpful draft by @Harrison-M. We workshopped this a bit on the Discord, and it'd be nice to get some initial comments from community members.
NOTE: This is very much an initial draft proposal. I'm submitting it in hopes that it provides direction/structure/ideas, but if it looks completely different, so be it. Let's just get this ball rolling. 👍
Fixes: #7
Quick note on timeline: There's no rush to get this merged within 24 hours or anything. Let's give it a couple of days, unless the consensus is so clear that we can just drop it in.