Various findings and some ideas

[rondlh]

Here some user feedback, but first of all thanks a lot for this great project!

1. "View all" (CTRL+H) is only available in a sub menu, as direct button would be convenient.
2. In addition to boolean intersection, add Convex hull and XOR operation.
3. Now rotation is done around the center of a face, rotate around an edge would be useful too.

4A. Wrap around a cylinder can be repeated resulting in unexpected results.
4B. It seems the "wrap around a cylinder" operation cannot be undone.

5A. Marking the reference points leaves you with several movable reference points, manually deleting these one by one is a bit cumbersome.
5B. When several reference points are opened, they overlay each other which obscures the location data.
5C. The location boxes move as a group, so you cannot make the info visible by moving a box, you will need to close or delete the overlaying box.
5D. Even if you move a reference box to another location, the box overlap still occurs because the location of the closed reference box seems to also have been moved (they move as a group it seems).
5E. The view order of the reference points seems to be fixed, so clicking a reference points can make the box appear behind another box that was already visible.

Q: Do you need help with anything specific?

[henmedia]

@rondlh, welcome, and thank you for the careful list. Point by point:

• 3, turning about an edge: this exists: the Rotation pivot. Click the tool, then a face (it takes the centre of a flat face), or drag the red marker with the mouse: it snaps to corners, edge middles and edges, and the selection then turns about that point. The guide has it where it describes rotating.
• 4A, wrapping twice: you are right, wrapping a wrapped shape gave nonsense. It is refused now, with a message that says to undo the wrapping or wrap the flat original again. 4B: in my test Ctrl+Z took the wrapping back step by step, all the way to the flat shape. Which way did you wrap and undo, and what did not come back?
• 5, reference points: the card has Delete all now (and so does the right-click menu), each card moves on its own, and the one you touched last stands in front. In my test only one card opens at a time, so I would like to know how you got several open.
• 1, a button for Show all is not there yet; it is in the menu next to the eye in the Visibility group, or with Ctrl+Shift+H. 2, convex hull and XOR: I am not adding them; the combine tools are the intersection, the union and the cut-out.

The changes from this list are out in 1.72.3; reload the page once to get it. What you did here, trying what you know from other CAD programs and writing down what is missing, is the most useful help.

If you find layerling useful, a small donation helps me keep improving it. Thank you! 🙂

[rondlh]

4A, wrapping twice: you are right, wrapping a wrapped shape gave nonsense. It is refused now, with a message that says to undo the wrapping or wrap the flat original again. 4B: in my test Ctrl+Z took the wrapping back step by step, all the way to the flat shape. Which way did you wrap and undo, and what did not come back?

Ctrl + Z works correctly to undo the wrap. I was trying to undo the wrap like you can undo a "Hollow" or "edge feature" operation. That would be a very powerful feature.

In my test only one card opens at a time, so I would like to know how you got several open.

I just left click on the reference point to open several boxes.
I'm using Windows 10 LTSC, Chrome 155.0.8059.39.

Additionally, another useful feature would be to undo a split, to restore the cut part. The other part of the split can stay as is.
One very powerful feature in TinkerCAD is that you can always go back to the primitives. You never lose the part you have cut by joining a solid and a hole. Just ungroup them and you have the full object again. It would be great if a split could be restored.

[henmedia]

@rondlh, thank you, and you are right about the cards: several can be open at once, my test only had one. The cards are on their own now, so they can be told apart: drag one by its title bar ("Reference point") to move it, double-click the title to put it back, and the card you touched last is in front. Points that lie close together still open their cards on top of each other until you move one.

Wrapping: it is applied as a step that makes a new shape, so it cannot be lifted off later the way Hollow can. Ctrl+Z takes it back, but only in the order of your steps.

Split: the same, Ctrl+Z works right after, not later. For a cut you can always take back, do it the Tinkercad way: put a box over the part you want gone, set it to Cut-out, and group it with the body. Ungrouping gives you both again. I did not test this on a split-like shape just now, so tell me if it does not behave that way for you.

[rondlh]

Thanks for the fixes and explanation, I understand the situation.

About the split. You are right, the TinkerCad way works as expected. I believe this is a big advantage of Tinkercad, you can always go back to your original shapes, you can never go into a dead-end path and get stuck later. So I personally will avoid the split function, and use the "mask with hole" function twice instead. While doing this I came across 2 issues. Perhaps the Layerling split can also work in the same way automatically.

Issue 1. To make a split (Tinkercad way) I put a box over the part I want to cut, then I duplicate that box, and move the bottom side towards the top, BEYOND the 0-mm point of the box. This way I guaranteed to have the 2 boxes are exactly matching the split line surface.
But Layerling does not allow it. It goes to a box height of 0.01mm, and I cannot go beyond it. Tinkercad allows this, and it is a very useful feature.
To say the same thing more simple, I want to draw a object size beyond the 0-mm size of the object, to make it "-1" mm in size, which is actually 1mm.

Issue 2. The snapgrid function does not seem to work correctly. My snapgrid is at 1.0mm. I have an object of 0.5mm in height at the workplane. Then when I drag the height manipulator, the height jumps to 1.5mm, while it should jump to 1.0mm. This means the snapgrid is not absolute, but relative, which is wrong in my view. TinkerCad will do this correctly, the snapgrid is a global grid, which is what you want so all object are aligned to the global grid, which guarantees no gaps between the objects.
When I put my 0.5mm object 0.1mm above the workplane and manipulate the box height, again it jumps to 1.5mm, if it follows the snapgrid at 1mm, the value should jump to 0.9mm (object is at workplane offset 0.1mm, next snap grid value is at 1.0mm, so object should be 0.9mm).
This is a very essential issues to make design consistence.

[henmedia]

@rondlh, you are right that one size should be one entry. I added a switch to each custom snap grid: Also half and quarter. Switch it off and the menu has only the size you typed, so "10 mm" gives just 10 mm. It comes with the next release; a custom grid you have already keeps its halves until you switch it off.

[henmedia]

@rondlh, the switch for custom snap grids is in 1.75.0: each one has Also half and quarter, and with it off the menu has only the size you typed. Reload the page to get it; the installed app needs a restart.

[rondlh]

@rondlh, the switch for custom snap grids is in 1.75.0: each one has Also half and quarter, and with it off the menu has only the size you typed. Reload the page to get it; the installed app needs a restart.

Great, that is much better, thanks a lot. One minor detail is that the added grid still says "1 x 10 mm". In my view it should just say "10 mm", like the name I defined.

[henmedia]

@rondlh, you are right: a grid used whole should just carry its name. "10 mm" now reads "10 mm" in the menu; the halves and quarters still read "½ × 10 mm" and "¼ × 10 mm". It comes with the next release.

[henmedia]

@rondlh, the custom snap grid that reads just its name ("10 mm" instead of "1 × 10 mm") is in 1.76.0. Reload the page to get it; the installed app needs a restart.

[rondlh]

Most items have been covered, thanks a lot! The only remaining items (which were replied to already). I just mentioned them here for reference.

1. Direct button to "view all" like in Tinkercad, instead of in the submenu. I use this button a lot, so I would like to have direct access to the button, instead of in a submenu.
2. In addition to boolean intersection, add Convex hull and XOR operation. This is supported by Manifold-3D (the underlying mesh library). With XOR you can create some marvelous designs. Convex hull can help to accelerate some designs, for example, if you want to make a box, you can place 4 cylinders for the corners and calculate the convex hull, and your box is complete (after a hollow operation).

[henmedia]

@rondlh coming back to your point 2: I turned the convex hull down here too quickly. @MethylBromide asked for it again in #863 with good examples, and it is now built for the next version.

Hull is a new tool under Combine: select two shapes or more and click it, and they are wrapped in their convex hull. Your example works just as you described it: four cylinders at the corners become a box with round corners, ready for Hollow. Holes in the selection are cut out of the hull afterwards, and the parts stay in it, so Edit group lets you move a corner post and Done wraps it anew. XOR is not part of it.

[rondlh]

ready for Hollow

I tried it to verify if it works...

1. I placed 4 cylinders in a square
2. Created a hull object. That works and it can be undone by ungrouping, that is a great feature!
3. When I use the hollow tool on the object created with the hull, it hollows out the original 4 cylinders, not the box created with the hull operation.

My setup.
Version 1.111.0 on Windows 10 LTSC, Chrome 155.

[henmedia]

@rondlh thank you for trying the hull and for the clear steps. You are right, and the same fault was reported in #908: Hollow, fillet and chamfer open a group into its parts so the kernel gets them exactly, and a hull was opened the same way, so your four cylinders were hollowed one by one. It is fixed for the next version: a hull goes to Hollow as the one body it is, so the box round the four cylinders is hollowed.

[henmedia]

@rondlh the fix for hollowing a hull is out in 1.112.0: the box round your four cylinders is hollowed as one body.

[rondlh]

It's working now as expected, thanks for the great support!