Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item #807
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I think free item positioning could help you out here, however I haven't used this myself at all since I find it very confusing for the workflows I have. Perhaps time selections would do what you are looking for? I too wonder if expressions like crescendo can be done via automation... That might help, but I guess it is not what you are looking for. |
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Hi, I’ll try and explain my idea a bit better.
Imagine you have an item which is a sample of a cymbal swell. If I want to move this so the cymbal starts at 20.1.0 then this is easy and I just cut the item to the clipboard, go to this position and paste.
What if I want the cymbal swell though to finish at 20.1.0? In my idea you would select the item in the usual way with control left or right arrow, then do control shift full stop to move to the end of the item, then do the cut and paste. And because position of the edit cursor is important at the time of the cut, then it is the end of the item that is positioned at 20.1.0.
And if I want the crescendo of my cymbal swell to be at 20.1.0, then I position my cursor at this point by doing things like pressing pause at the correct time, or using scrubbing, and then doing the cut and paste. The position of the edit cursor is important, and the item is pasted so the crescendo is now at 20.1.0.
Does that make sense?
Regards, Chris / CastleStarter
From: Thomas Byskov Dalgaard ***@***.***>
Sent: 24 November 2022 08:18
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Author ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
I think free item positioning could help you out here, however I haven't used this myself at all since I find it very confusing for the workflows I have.
Perhaps time selections would do what you are looking for?
So when you copy a part of an item and paste this, later items should be moved if ripple is set properly.
I too wonder if expressions like crescendo can be done via automation... That might help, but I guess it is not what you are looking for.
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@CastleStarter I am not sure how to get the expected results, so I really hope others will share their thoughts on this. Your idea sounds quite interesting. I just have this feeling that it already can be done, we may just have missed a tini tiny step to get the result you are looking for. |
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This does sound like a function that could be useful. Seems like it should be possible, but I don’t know how. Have you asked this question on the Reaper forum? I’m guessing someone can come up with a workflow for doing this.
…--Pete
From: Thomas Byskov Dalgaard ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 2:57 PM
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
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Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
@CastleStarter <https://github.com/CastleStarter> I am not sure how to get the expected results, so I really hope others will share their thoughts on this. Your idea sounds quite interesting. I just have this feeling that it already can be done, we may just have missed a tini tiny step to get the result you are looking for.
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Hi Peter, I am guessing here, but I think if you are using a mouse pointer then when you click on an item and drag it, the relative position of the mouse pointer is respected. So if you click on the item at its end and drag it, the end stays where you let go and it is easy to line up the end of the item with the start of the next one.
So my suggestion is really to try and bring the keyboard method in line with the mouse approach.
Regards, Chris G/ Castle Starter
From: ptorpey ***@***.***>
Sent: 25 November 2022 22:03
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
This does sound like a function that could be useful. Seems like it should be possible, but I don’t know how. Have you asked this question on the Reaper forum? I’m guessing someone can come up with a workflow for doing this.
…--Pete
From: Thomas Byskov Dalgaard ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 2:57 PM
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
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Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
@CastleStarter <https://github.com/CastleStarter> I am not sure how to get the expected results, so I really hope others will share their thoughts on this. Your idea sounds quite interesting. I just have this feeling that it already can be done, we may just have missed a tini tiny step to get the result you are looking for.
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For lining up item endings you can use Reaper's Nudge/Set dialog.
2022-11-25 23:19 GMT+01:00, CastleStarter ***@***.***>:
… Hi Peter, I am guessing here, but I think if you are using a mouse pointer
then when you click on an item and drag it, the relative position of the
mouse pointer is respected. So if you click on the item at its end and drag
it, the end stays where you let go and it is easy to line up the end of the
item with the start of the next one.
So my suggestion is really to try and bring the keyboard method in line with
the mouse approach.
Regards, Chris G/ Castle Starter
From: ptorpey ***@***.***>
Sent: 25 November 2022 22:03
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative
position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
This does sound like a function that could be useful. Seems like it should
be possible, but I don’t know how. Have you asked this question on the
Reaper forum? I’m guessing someone can come up with a workflow for doing
this.
--Pete
From: Thomas Byskov Dalgaard ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 2:57 PM
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: Subscribed ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative
position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
@CastleStarter <https://github.com/CastleStarter> I am not sure how to get
the expected results, so I really hope others will share their thoughts on
this. Your idea sounds quite interesting. I just have this feeling that it
already can be done, we may just have missed a tini tiny step to get the
result you are looking for.
—
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<#807 (comment)> , or
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True, but my suggestion covers placing the start, end or any point in between precisely without needing the nudge dialogue.
Regards, Chris G
From: MatejGolian ***@***.***>
Sent: 26 November 2022 08:16
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
For lining up item endings you can use Reaper's Nudge/Set dialog.
2022-11-25 23:19 GMT+01:00, CastleStarter ***@***.***>:
Hi Peter, I am guessing here, but I think if you are using a mouse pointer
then when you click on an item and drag it, the relative position of the
mouse pointer is respected. So if you click on the item at its end and drag
it, the end stays where you let go and it is easy to line up the end of the
item with the start of the next one.
So my suggestion is really to try and bring the keyboard method in line with
the mouse approach.
Regards, Chris G/ Castle Starter
From: ptorpey ***@***.***>
Sent: 25 November 2022 22:03
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative
position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
This does sound like a function that could be useful. Seems like it should
be possible, but I don’t know how. Have you asked this question on the
Reaper forum? I’m guessing someone can come up with a workflow for doing
this.
--Pete
From: Thomas Byskov Dalgaard ***@***.***>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 2:57 PM
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: Subscribed ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative
position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
@CastleStarter <https://github.com/CastleStarter> I am not sure how to get
the expected results, so I really hope others will share their thoughts on
this. Your idea sounds quite interesting. I just have this feeling that it
already can be done, we may just have missed a tini tiny step to get the
result you are looking for.
—
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<#807 (comment)> , or
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It does, and tbh I'm someone who'd definitely use it. However, it's a huge shift in behaviour, and I suspect wouldn't be trivial to implement. The one edge case you've already identified makes me nervous and I'm sure there will be others. I'm not saying no, will leave this open for discussion, but two things need to happen before it moves forward:
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I wonder what happens if you use the mouse and drag an item so the start comes before the start of the project. This edge case must already have a known behaviour. I don’t know a sighted Reaper user to ask though.
My suggestion would only give marginal productivity gains but I think it might actually be more intuitive behaviour. Very happy to hear other’s point of view.
Best, C
From: ScottChesworth ***@***.***>
Sent: 27 November 2022 00:03
To: jcsteh/osara ***@***.***>
Cc: CastleStarter ***@***.***>; Mention ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Copy, cut and paste should respect relative position of edit cursor to first selected item (Issue #807)
my suggestion covers placing the start, end or any point in between precisely without needing the nudge dialogue.
It does, and tbh I'm someone who'd definitely use it. However, it's a huge shift in behaviour, and I suspect wouldn't be trivial to implement. The one edge case you've already identified makes me nervous and I'm sure there will be others. I'm not saying no, will leave this open for discussion, but two things need to happen before it moves forward:
1. The intended UX needs to be fleshed out in plenty of detail, especially around pasting. If we're gonna roll out such a significant change of behaviour, the new UX needs to behave at least as consistently as what we have now.
2. A contributor who has the chops to implement this if agreed on needs to weigh in on the proposed UX.
Recently, a lot of time and effort has gone into a feature that might not get over the finish line, in part because the roadmap wasn't clear enough before work started. We don't have the resources for a repeat of that.
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I can check that and report back. |
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Hi. Not sure I've fully thought this through but here goes.
A sighted user will likely drag and drop an item to move it. If the mouse arrow is part way along the item at the start of the drag, the mouse arrow is at the same relative position at the end of the drop. In the same way, should or could OSARA capture the distance of the edit cursor from the start of the selected item when a copy or cut is done, and then when the paste happens this relative distance is respected.
This could be the default behaviour as a common way to select items with control left and right arrow places the edit cursor at the start of the item. But doing a shift+A when part way across an item would allow accurate placing of an item at an interesting part of the audio such as a crescendo or the end of the item.
Only problem I can see is what behaviour should happen if the paste would cause the start of the item to be before the project start. Perhaps the paste just doesn't happen.
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