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Add footstep sounds for liquids #436

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

As promised with my underwater view bobbing patch, I added some footstep sounds for liquids which will be heard when swimming. The sounds were recorded by me and licensed WTFPL (or whatever works best).

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Wuzzy2 Feb 21, 2015

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Ugh, sorry, but the sounds are awful for me.
It sounds like if you are swimming in a bathtub made out of rusty iron rather than in open water.

Also: You used the same water sound for lava. o_O

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Wuzzy2 commented Feb 21, 2015

Ugh, sorry, but the sounds are awful for me.
It sounds like if you are swimming in a bathtub made out of rusty iron rather than in open water.

Also: You used the same water sound for lava. o_O

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MirceaKitsune Feb 21, 2015

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@Wuzzy2 I think the sounds should be acceptable, although I'm aware they're not the best. If anyone can find better ones, please send them to me and I'll gladly include them instead.

I wasn't sure if there's a point in making separate sounds for lava, nor how to achieve them at all. I'm not even sure how swimming in lava would sound like to be honest. Once again, if anyone finds some mention them to me and I will include them.

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

@Wuzzy2 I think the sounds should be acceptable, although I'm aware they're not the best. If anyone can find better ones, please send them to me and I'll gladly include them instead.

I wasn't sure if there's a point in making separate sounds for lava, nor how to achieve them at all. I'm not even sure how swimming in lava would sound like to be honest. Once again, if anyone finds some mention them to me and I will include them.

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BlockMen Feb 21, 2015

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In general yes, but the sounds are horrible.
Also it should not be used by lava. Better no "lava swimming" sound than a water like.

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BlockMen commented Feb 21, 2015

In general yes, but the sounds are horrible.
Also it should not be used by lava. Better no "lava swimming" sound than a water like.

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MirceaKitsune Feb 21, 2015

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@BlockMen I can't see how much better ones are possible, although somewhat better sounds would be doable. I looked on http://www.pdsounds.org/ but didn't find anything good (their search system is also very broken). Anyone else have any ideas?

I think it's more silly to have water sounds but no lava sounds... even if it's less likely for anyone to go swimming in lava. What would indeed work better are some swamp water sounds, which could also be used for actual swamp water (custom biomes).

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

@BlockMen I can't see how much better ones are possible, although somewhat better sounds would be doable. I looked on http://www.pdsounds.org/ but didn't find anything good (their search system is also very broken). Anyone else have any ideas?

I think it's more silly to have water sounds but no lava sounds... even if it's less likely for anyone to go swimming in lava. What would indeed work better are some swamp water sounds, which could also be used for actual swamp water (custom biomes).

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

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MirceaKitsune Feb 21, 2015

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Done. I got rid of my ugly sounds and included much nicer ones from OGA (licensed CC-BY 3.0). Go ahead an give them another listen :)

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

Done. I got rid of my ugly sounds and included much nicer ones from OGA (licensed CC-BY 3.0). Go ahead an give them another listen :)

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Ah, water is better now. But the 2 lava sounds sound almost identical to me.

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Wuzzy2 commented Feb 21, 2015

Ah, water is better now. But the 2 lava sounds sound almost identical to me.

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MirceaKitsune Feb 21, 2015

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There's still a problem with the patch: I'm trying to make the sounds work for buckets as well, so they're also heard when using a bucket to drop or take liquids. I experimentally replaced add_node with place_node and remove_node with dig_note in the bucket mod, but for some reason this doesn't cause the place / dig sounds to play.

Shouldn't creating a block with place_node cause the node's on_place sound to be heard, whereas add_node shouldn't? The description does say that place_node is "as if a player has put the node there". Maybe it's a bug? Same with dig_node over remove_node.

If not, is there another way (that's flexible and acceptable) to solve the issue? I'm trying the above to avoid coding the sounds directly into the buckets, which is an easy solution but less flexible. I'd rather trigger the liquid source node's place / dig sound, but is this possible with buckets?

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 21, 2015

There's still a problem with the patch: I'm trying to make the sounds work for buckets as well, so they're also heard when using a bucket to drop or take liquids. I experimentally replaced add_node with place_node and remove_node with dig_note in the bucket mod, but for some reason this doesn't cause the place / dig sounds to play.

Shouldn't creating a block with place_node cause the node's on_place sound to be heard, whereas add_node shouldn't? The description does say that place_node is "as if a player has put the node there". Maybe it's a bug? Same with dig_node over remove_node.

If not, is there another way (that's flexible and acceptable) to solve the issue? I'm trying the above to avoid coding the sounds directly into the buckets, which is an easy solution but less flexible. I'd rather trigger the liquid source node's place / dig sound, but is this possible with buckets?

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thatgraemeguy Feb 23, 2015

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Shouldn't the lava sound be a bloodcurdling scream? I imagine that'd be the only sound I'd hear if I were strolling through lava.

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thatgraemeguy commented Feb 23, 2015

Shouldn't the lava sound be a bloodcurdling scream? I imagine that'd be the only sound I'd hear if I were strolling through lava.

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MirceaKitsune Feb 23, 2015

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@thatgraemeguy Using voices for sound effects is likely not acceptable. Especially because they'd have to be gender neutral, and even species neutral considering mods that let you play as animals or monsters (like my Creatures mod). Other mods can add their own hurt sounds of course.

That said, these are the best sounds I could possibly find, and I think the current lava sounds are really good. Especially since lava is dense and you swim through it very slowly, causing the sound to play rarely and usually just when you swim near the surface or fall in.

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 23, 2015

@thatgraemeguy Using voices for sound effects is likely not acceptable. Especially because they'd have to be gender neutral, and even species neutral considering mods that let you play as animals or monsters (like my Creatures mod). Other mods can add their own hurt sounds of course.

That said, these are the best sounds I could possibly find, and I think the current lava sounds are really good. Especially since lava is dense and you swim through it very slowly, causing the sound to play rarely and usually just when you swim near the surface or fall in.

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C1ffisme Feb 23, 2015

@thatgraemeguy I think a bloodcurdling scream would scare younger players away and might scare parents from letting their kids play. Also, you would hear the scream in creative mode, which wouldn't make any sense.

C1ffisme commented Feb 23, 2015

@thatgraemeguy I think a bloodcurdling scream would scare younger players away and might scare parents from letting their kids play. Also, you would hear the scream in creative mode, which wouldn't make any sense.

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tenplus1 Feb 26, 2015

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This feature has been done already by using the Ambiance mod... https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience

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tenplus1 commented Feb 26, 2015

This feature has been done already by using the Ambiance mod... https://github.com/tenplus1/ambience

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MirceaKitsune Feb 26, 2015

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@tenplus1 The ambiance mod is likely not going to be part of minetest_game, and like all mods not every server will use it. This is an addition for default MTG, aiming to introduce a needed feature that's long been missing.

Also, I remember the Ambience mod loops a single swimming sound while you're in water, whereas this uses node footsteps which is more correct and reliable. They didn't work until a few weeks ago however, since footsteps for liquids were broken in the engine and required a patch to enable... this is in a sense the second part of the same improvement.

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 26, 2015

@tenplus1 The ambiance mod is likely not going to be part of minetest_game, and like all mods not every server will use it. This is an addition for default MTG, aiming to introduce a needed feature that's long been missing.

Also, I remember the Ambience mod loops a single swimming sound while you're in water, whereas this uses node footsteps which is more correct and reliable. They didn't work until a few weeks ago however, since footsteps for liquids were broken in the engine and required a patch to enable... this is in a sense the second part of the same improvement.

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BlockMen Feb 28, 2015

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The watersound is better, but still not good. IMO not good enough to be merged.
Also, there is still a swimming sound for lava. This is just wrong.

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BlockMen commented Feb 28, 2015

The watersound is better, but still not good. IMO not good enough to be merged.
Also, there is still a swimming sound for lava. This is just wrong.

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MirceaKitsune Feb 28, 2015

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@BlockMen Better sounds for water are probably impossible to find. Those are from OGA, and really the best I've heard.

The swimming sound for lava is usually triggered only when you fall in. Lava is very dense and your swimming speed in it very slow, so it only plays on occasion. I think it's very realistic this way. If anyone wants to try it out, disable damage find a deep cave and go for a lava swim :)

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MirceaKitsune commented Feb 28, 2015

@BlockMen Better sounds for water are probably impossible to find. Those are from OGA, and really the best I've heard.

The swimming sound for lava is usually triggered only when you fall in. Lava is very dense and your swimming speed in it very slow, so it only plays on occasion. I think it's very realistic this way. If anyone wants to try it out, disable damage find a deep cave and go for a lava swim :)

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@MirceaKitsune I actually did that (swimming in lava) to test it. And no, it did not convince me.

I doubt there are no better sounds. But these sounds would not improve the game, they would strengthen the (possible) impression of a cheap clone.

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BlockMen commented Feb 28, 2015

@MirceaKitsune I actually did that (swimming in lava) to test it. And no, it did not convince me.

I doubt there are no better sounds. But these sounds would not improve the game, they would strengthen the (possible) impression of a cheap clone.

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MirceaKitsune Mar 16, 2015

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Anything new on this? I understand water is good, but some people are still not sure about the lava. Can more developers mention their opinion please?

To easily test when and how the lava sounds are played: Disable damage and start any world. Go into noclip mode and fly underground until you find a cave with a large lava pool. Disable fly / noclip mode then jump in and swim around.

You'll only hear the sound once when you enter the lava, or while you swim and jump near the surface. Movement through it is so slow the footsteps are almost never triggered... which I think is great!

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MirceaKitsune commented Mar 16, 2015

Anything new on this? I understand water is good, but some people are still not sure about the lava. Can more developers mention their opinion please?

To easily test when and how the lava sounds are played: Disable damage and start any world. Go into noclip mode and fly underground until you find a cave with a large lava pool. Disable fly / noclip mode then jump in and swim around.

You'll only hear the sound once when you enter the lava, or while you swim and jump near the surface. Movement through it is so slow the footsteps are almost never triggered... which I think is great!

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MirceaKitsune May 15, 2015

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Any more feedback on this, please? I understand the only remaining controversy is with the lava sounds... are they acceptable in the end, or should I remove them?

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MirceaKitsune commented May 15, 2015

Any more feedback on this, please? I understand the only remaining controversy is with the lava sounds... are they acceptable in the end, or should I remove them?

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Megaf May 20, 2015

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Sorry, in my personal option I rather not have sound when moving on water. Perhaps if there is an option to enable/disable it would be a welcome feature.

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Megaf commented May 20, 2015

Sorry, in my personal option I rather not have sound when moving on water. Perhaps if there is an option to enable/disable it would be a welcome feature.

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paramat Sep 14, 2015

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@MirceaKitsune I feel there's no need for lava swmming sounds because of the almost instant death.
Water sounds when underwater seem wrong, perhaps something more subtle and bubbly. There are some sounds in my trail mod that work okay underwater https://github.com/paramat/trail

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paramat commented Sep 14, 2015

@MirceaKitsune I feel there's no need for lava swmming sounds because of the almost instant death.
Water sounds when underwater seem wrong, perhaps something more subtle and bubbly. There are some sounds in my trail mod that work okay underwater https://github.com/paramat/trail

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paramat, if damage is disabled you can swim there, else the post effect colour of lava would be missing

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HybridDog commented Sep 14, 2015

paramat, if damage is disabled you can swim there, else the post effect colour of lava would be missing

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Water sounds are a little irritating every step, how about making them more random by including a single silent sound file?

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paramat commented Sep 14, 2015

Water sounds are a little irritating every step, how about making them more random by including a single silent sound file?

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MirceaKitsune Sep 14, 2015

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@paramat Making them random by including an empty sound sounds like a very ugly hack, which other developers would likely not agree to either. I mean some didn't agree with adding menu music because a simple song file was considered too large, it would be weird if this was considered okay instead. The only way to reduce footstep sound frequency is to increase the liquid viscosity so movement is slower, which is likely not desired.

These are changes I probably won't make. But I'm leaving this pull open... since in all honesty it's something simple and seems really good to me, so maybe others can come to an agreement or make the necessary changes.

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MirceaKitsune commented Sep 14, 2015

@paramat Making them random by including an empty sound sounds like a very ugly hack, which other developers would likely not agree to either. I mean some didn't agree with adding menu music because a simple song file was considered too large, it would be weird if this was considered okay instead. The only way to reduce footstep sound frequency is to increase the liquid viscosity so movement is slower, which is likely not desired.

These are changes I probably won't make. But I'm leaving this pull open... since in all honesty it's something simple and seems really good to me, so maybe others can come to an agreement or make the necessary changes.

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kilbith Sep 20, 2015

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@paramat I like your sounds in your trail mod. I'd support that if you open a PR.

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kilbith commented Sep 20, 2015

@paramat I like your sounds in your trail mod. I'd support that if you open a PR.

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paramat Sep 28, 2015

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Do the changes to bucket code here need updating or removing? Do they actually work now?

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paramat commented Sep 28, 2015

Do the changes to bucket code here need updating or removing? Do they actually work now?

@@ -123,6 +123,7 @@ minetest.register_craftitem("bucket:bucket_empty", {
return
end
minetest.dig_node(pointed_thing.under)
minetest.add_node(pointed_thing.under, {name="air"})

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HybridDog Sep 30, 2015

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minetest.dig_node already removes the node, it's not necessary to set "air", is it?

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minetest.dig_node already removes the node, it's not necessary to set "air", is it?

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0-afflatus Oct 25, 2015

What water really needs is the ability to emit ambient sounds, but that's an engine issue.
Lots of sploshing noises will get annoying very fast, but sounds for emptying / filling buckets could be good.

0-afflatus commented Oct 25, 2015

What water really needs is the ability to emit ambient sounds, but that's an engine issue.
Lots of sploshing noises will get annoying very fast, but sounds for emptying / filling buckets could be good.

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kilbith Oct 29, 2015

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I still want the underwater's sounds in paramat's trail mod.

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kilbith commented Oct 29, 2015

I still want the underwater's sounds in paramat's trail mod.

@@ -75,7 +75,7 @@ function bucket.register_liquid(source, flowing, itemname, inventory_image, name
"place "..source) then
return
end
minetest.add_node(pos, {name=source})
minetest.place_node(pos, {name=source})

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kaeza Jan 8, 2016

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I think this is out of scope for this commit. Maybe split?

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kaeza Jan 8, 2016

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I think this is out of scope for this commit. Maybe split?

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paramat Mar 6, 2016

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Agreed.

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paramat Mar 6, 2016

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Agreed.

@@ -123,6 +123,7 @@ minetest.register_craftitem("bucket:bucket_empty", {
return
end
minetest.dig_node(pointed_thing.under)

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kaeza Jan 8, 2016

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Same as above.

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kaeza Jan 8, 2016

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Same as above.

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👎 Sounds need improving.
Water sounds need to be suitable for underwater too, and should be fairly subtle to not get annoying being on every footstep. I tried adding a single silent sound to break up the regular footsteps and it worked well, what could be done instead is to make one of the sounds very quiet.

Playing water sounds for buckets should be another PR.
I don't think we need lava swimming sounds.

PR is a year old and isn't being improved @PilzAdam @Ekdohibs @sfan5 @ShadowNinja any comments?

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paramat commented Mar 6, 2016

👎 Sounds need improving.
Water sounds need to be suitable for underwater too, and should be fairly subtle to not get annoying being on every footstep. I tried adding a single silent sound to break up the regular footsteps and it worked well, what could be done instead is to make one of the sounds very quiet.

Playing water sounds for buckets should be another PR.
I don't think we need lava swimming sounds.

PR is a year old and isn't being improved @PilzAdam @Ekdohibs @sfan5 @ShadowNinja any comments?

@paramat paramat added Low priority and removed Low priority labels Mar 6, 2016

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sofar commented Mar 6, 2016

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Closing for reasons given above and author refuses to improve the PR.

Water footsteps may be good though if done carefully and subtle, i might even attempt this myself later. I did try using the sounds from my trail mod but even with editing they had problems.

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paramat commented Mar 8, 2016

Closing for reasons given above and author refuses to improve the PR.

Water footsteps may be good though if done carefully and subtle, i might even attempt this myself later. I did try using the sounds from my trail mod but even with editing they had problems.

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