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The original issue about the 'glitch' #16

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nvs opened this issue May 9, 2016 · 2 comments
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The original issue about the 'glitch' #16

nvs opened this issue May 9, 2016 · 2 comments
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nvs commented May 9, 2016

The 'Glitch'

Note: I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about this issue, and I have added over multiple months to this particular comment, so it is on the longer side. It mostly reflects my thought process in wrapping my head around the 'glitch', why my stance has changed over the years, and both the pros and cons. Most people probably care more about the Solutions post which comes later.

Okay, from my perspective of auditing the code it definitely looks like a bug/oversight. I checked and it has existed since at least v1.1, the earliest map I could find. Due to the timer in Classic mode (the only mode that existed back then), it would have been difficult for players to use the 'glitch' at all. I doubt it was honestly discovered until Race mode was introduced.

Now, Bryvx definitely knew about the 'glitch' and used it, as multiple people, including myself, have reported seeing. But I cannot comment on when he definitively found out about it, nor whether he had any plans to address it further. According to DMVPDemonMOM (an original Gem TD tester), he didn't really want people to know about it either. Make of that what you will.

Regardless, it looks like a coding error, and I'm sticking to that belief. I highly doubt Bryvx knew a lot of the intricacies of Warcraft 3 mechanics and built his combine system around them, given how many issues and bugs there are throughout the code base. Especially those related to the very same behavior that allows the 'glitch' to occur in the first place: units not existing on the map and returning null in checks. A number of these errors literally broke parts of the game, sometimes rendering it impossible to complete.

Still, for a very long time use of the 'glitch' was pretty rare, even when bot hosting came onto the scene. I'll admit I definitely played a part in helping knowledge of it spread, as did many other good gem players, especially those who originated on USWest. Now we're at a point where the use of it is fairly widespread and generally accepted, and right now it is less of a bug and more of a balance issue. And boy is it one hell of a balance issue.

Controversy

Honestly, if you've ever tried explaining the 'glitch' it even sounds like a bug. Kill all but the gem you want to 'glitch', wait thirty seconds, then combine. Want to know why that works? When looking for four of a kind the code checks every combination of the five gems you were given that round. Guess what happens to destroyed gems after thirty seconds? They're removed from the map after the default decay period for the corpses of structures. You combine and the check then finds four null units, and returns true. Congratulations, the gem you left alive skips a quality.

Of course, new players generally assume it is some sort of cheat, which it isn't. But they don't understand how it works, nor can they wrap their head around it without more information. For the most part, unless a player has someone explain how it works to them or is a bit more clever than the average squirrel, they're not going to figure it out. And that is honestly a big deal.

Gem should be simple. Everything in gem should be obvious. The 'glitch' is not simple, nor obvious. It's not logical. Why should killing your own stuff give you better stuff after you wait an arbitrary period of time? There is nothing within the map to explain that it exists, let alone how it works. At the very least it needs to be explained, or better, simply revamped.

Game Changing

There was a time when I sparingly used the 'glitch'. I told myself that I would only use it if someone else did, mostly because running into another player who used it was unusual. And it remained rare for a long time, as many old players will tell you. When the 'glitch' was used people would claim it was a cheat, or demand to know how it worked; explaining the move was honestly a chore.

But as the years passed and an increasing number of people became familiar with the move I found myself needing to use it more and more, simply in an effort to stay competitive in races. Why? Because the Greats and the Stone of Bryvx have that much of an effect, especially early game where very few other structures beyond slates can provide the same impact. After a while, I began to use the 'glitch' almost religiously and started to curse myself when someone else had 'better luck' than me. Gem had become less of a gradual build up, and more defined by one-off instances of amazing luck.

Becoming the map fixer, maintainer, balancer, etc. has caused my perspective to shift, and I am starting to see the 'glitch' in a different light. Previously it was awesome, a way for me to catch up, a means for me to extend a lead, an option to allow me to salvage a surely lost game, and in general just a way to kick ass. It let me typically be more risky with my strategies than I normally would be without. In the hands of a skilled player, the 'glitch' is a formidable tool, of that there is no doubt.

The 'Crutch'

But it is a double edge sword. As easily as it helps people, it is also hurting them, as well as the community surrounding the map. First, let's just clarify that it is possible to beat the game without using the 'glitch' at all. Many people have done it countless times with extremely high success rates, myself included. However, it requires a good knowledge of the map, strategies involved, mazing, etc. A bit of time investment is needed to reach a point where you can recover from the multitude of bad situations luck will hand you on a fairly consistent basis. I'll admit, though, that the 'glitch' makes the game easier. Perhaps too easy.

Now, let's look at inexperienced players. There have always been, and will always hopefully be, inexperienced players. They don't know how to maze well or even understand why the maze they use works, let alone its shortcomings. They don't know how to place their slates effectively. They don't know which auras stack. They don't even know all the recipes. But guess what they seem to know now that they didn't know in the past? The 'glitch'. Great, right?

Perhaps not. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all inexperienced players are just suddenly using the 'glitch'. And even the ones that do use it still fail because they don't grasp the map properly. But the structures the 'glitch' makes easier to get are powerful. Inexperienced players can get farther into the map than they probably should. They begin to rely on the Greats and the Stone of Bryvx to progress and attribute a lack of them to bad luck. In a sense, the 'glitch' is hurting these players by giving them a 'crutch' that they can lean on.

But this 'crutch' doesn't just stop with new players, it extends to more experienced ones as well. Now that I'm paying attention I am noticing lots of players, skilled or not, complaining about their bad luck. Yes, some people are crying about leaking even though they failed to recognize the weakness of their choices. And yes, some are crying because they opted for a risky maze and do not know how to adapt properly. But primarily they are crying because they are not getting an imbalanced structure, of which the 'glitch' is a major facilitator.

Now, commenting that you aren't having great luck is one thing. But they're serious: they see the lack of having overpowered structures in the early game as bad luck. Hell, some of them just up and leave, opting to restart due to their lack of having one, or due to the fact that someone else got one first. This hurts the Gem community as a whole and is primarily a problem with expectations and the balance of the map. The 'glitch' does not help this issue at all.

It's Not All Bad

Still, I do see the 'glitch' as beneficial, just in a different way than the typical player. Most players see the 'glitch' for the power spike it gives, a moment of good luck that feels rewarding. And rightfully so, as many structures it provides, especially early game, can be quite powerful, if not overpowered.

But strip that away, and simply consider how it works. Probably the biggest boon of the 'glitch' is the fact that it gives players another tool to wield when approaching whatever luck throws their way. Luck defines Gem, and in general, we are at its mercy. However, there do exist ways to attempt to change the flow: the increasing of gem quality, as well as the ability to extra chance. In my mind the 'glitch' functions as an additional method to augment your luck, giving players more options. That would be a good thing if the 'glitch' was properly balanced.

Balanced?

If the 'glitch' was balanced, I don't think I'd really have too much of an issue with it. But, sadly, it is far from balanced in its current state. Now, when I refer to balance I'm mostly talking about using it to get a Great or a Stone of Bryvx. Even the wimpiest Greats do as much damage as a Star Yellow Sapphire. Most are far, far better.

Now, consider how early you can possibly get these structures provided by the 'glitch', as that is the main way it throws off the balance of the map: as soon as Round 10-13 for a Great, and Round 19-20 for a Stone of Bryvx in the average game. These are one-hits with very limited downsides. The possibility of opening a hole in your maze by killing stuff is hardly worth talking about; skilled players already take this into consideration when they build. As for the wait, this is hardly an issue at any time beyond very late game in a close race. Like I said, it's a one-hit, and most people would be fools not to take it.

Now let's use Great Diamond as an example real quick. It does 650 DPS. The soonest you can get a comparable structure (excluding slates) without the 'glitch' would be the exact same point as the Great itself, being a Pink Diamond by combining two Flawless. Before upgrading the Pink it only does 303 DPS and requires 175 gold to reach its full potential of 523 DPS. So pretty much you won't have it upgraded until sometime after Round 20 (assuming you prioritize maximizing your quality first). Oh, and the Great is a one-hit, instead of having to use three rounds to collect pieces. The soonest you would typically one-hit a Pink Diamond is Round 20. Sadly, Pink Diamond is not even in the same class.

And what about the Stone of Bryvx? Okay, Round 20 for that one, give or take. It does 625 DPS unbuffed (more than Great Pink Diamond) and gives a 50% bonus damage aura (more than a Mystic Black Opal). Essentially it is six rounds in one without a 450 gold drop to reach max potential. Having that on Round 20 is such a huge power spike that very few players would be able to keep up. More or less an 'I win' button in the average game. I'm intentionally not comparing it to Greats because, frankly, they're not balanced either given how early you can get them.

But the fact that the Greats and the Stone of Bryvx are powerful is not the problem. The defining issue is how easy and early one can get them by using the 'glitch'. Getting one early game essentially eclipses your opponents, unless they too have something that is drastically overpowered for that point in the game. On top of that, it is much easier to get a Great or a Stone of Bryvx than it is to one-hit another type of special tower, as you only need two pieces! Yet for something that is easier to get, they are some of the most powerful structures in the game, essentially beating almost any other choice in a single round hand down.

Probability

Each gem selected is an independent event. Mind you, I'm intentionally ignoring Extra Chances here.
At maximum quality the following chances exist to get a particular quality AND type:

  • Perfect: 1 / 80
  • Flawless: 3 / 80
  • Normal: 3 / 80
  • Flawed: 3 / 80

Anyways, these are the probabilities to fulfill the following events in a single round (one-hit) with quality maximized.

  • A 3-piece Special: ≈ 1 / 1_036
  • A 4-piece Special: ≈ 1 / 13_485
  • A Great (at least 2 Flawless): ≈ 1 / 77
  • A Great (at least 4 Flawless): ≈ 1 / 104_264
  • A Stone of Bryvx (at least 2 Perfects): ≈ 1 / 656
  • A Stone of Bryvx (at least 4 Perfects): ≈ 1 / 8_274_747

Conclusion

There should be no hidden moves in Gem, and as such the 'glitch' already fails. It throws off the balance of the map, whether people realize it or not. It does give people more options when assessing their gem choices, so it is not all bad. Still, it needs to be addressed, but the question is how?

@nvs nvs self-assigned this May 9, 2016
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nvs commented May 14, 2016

Solutions

Okay, I'm going to update this particular post as I encounter/come up with more solutions. I'll also go into more depth as time goes on. Let me be clear that there can be no hidden moves in Gem. If the 'glitch' remains, then it must be made obvious to the players. This does not mean mentioning it in the 'Information (F9)' area and calling it a day. This means adding a new option to combine that is easily visible to all players.

Note: You might want to look at the end of the above post (just scroll up) for the 'Probability' section to get an idea of just how likely things are with and without the 'glitch'.

I. Do Nothing

Now, some people will say to just leave it as it is. However, I disagree with this belief. The 'glitch' must be dealt with, period. Continue to read on and you'll understand why I say this.

II. Balancing the Greats

First, let's look at combining Gems. By default, you can get two of a kind or four of a kind. With this in mind, one can use two Perfects or four Flawless to get a Great, to skip one or two qualities respectively. However, when you throw the 'glitch' into the mix two Perfects nets you a Stone of Bryvx, and two Flawless nets you a Great.

Okay, so you balance the Greats because of how easy it is to get them with the 'glitch'. Now you're hurting the two of a kind method, something that without question is meant to be a part of the game. Essentially, reducing the effectiveness of Greats only caters to a bug, and would end up hindering the normal method of two of a kind more than it hurts the 'glitch'.

But let's just humor ourselves and 'try' to balance the Greats. People will continue to use Flawless to get Greats until said Greats are at or below the level of the Specials. Why this level? Because Greats involve no gold cost to reach their full potential. So in reality, Greats would have to be nerfed to a lower level than the Specials.

Because of a single bug we're talking about nerfing part of the game that actually defines Gem. Without the existence of the 'glitch, I doubt anyone would really be talking about the balance of the Greats of Stone of Bryvx. They're meant to be rare.

III. Balancing the Stone of Bryvx

Okay, so what about balancing the Stone of Bryvx? It would have to have its effectiveness reduced by such an amount that an honest trade off is created between taking a Great with two Perfects, or getting the Stone of Bryvx. Currently, there is no decision to make: you try to get the Stone of Bryvx.

But if you balance the Stone of Bryvx, you now you have a similar concern as with balancing the Greats. Even though it is very rare, using four of a kind to get the Stone of Bryvx is undoubtedly an intended part of the game. And now we're talking about nerfing it to cater to a bug.

At a minimum, I would expect the Stone of Bryvx to be an AoE damage aura. This would not change the fact that people would just be waiting for yet another one-off instance of luck, which is essentially the type of gameplay the 'glitch' promotes. Regardless, the Stone of Bryvx's power would need to be reduced to essentially the level of the Greats, which also need to be reduced. See the issue?

IV. Disable Access to Stone of Bryvx

Disabling access to the Greats via the 'glitch' would essentially be tantamount to removing it, so this obviously can only be done with regards to the Stone of Bryvx. So you remove the ability to get the Stone of Bryvx by using the 'glitch'. People will still get the Greats. However, the value of using two Perfects to double combine is still lessened by the mere presence of the 'glitch'. This is better than allowing access to the Stone of Bryvx with the 'glitch', but still not a very good solution because it's not really possible to balance the Greats properly if the probabilities remain the same.

V. Add a Cost

Add a gold cost to the 'glitch', similar to how it costs gold to upgrade a Special. The cost would depend on the quality of the pieces being used to perform the move. This would push the player to make a conscious choice of whether or not the cost is worth it. Early game this forces a decision: to delay quality progression of a powerful structure. Still, the cost, at least for the Greats or Stone of Bryvx, is going to be higher than most people would want, given the balance discrepancy between the Greats and Specials, and how easy it is to get powerful structures with the 'glitch' in the first place.

This still does nothing to address the fact that by using the 'glitch' one can get Greats too frequently.

VI. A Slight Rework

For example, make the 'glitch' require having three of a kind, with or without a gold cost. The idea for three of a kind originally came from DMVPDemonMOM (who was an original Gem TD tester).This is a viable option and puts the 'glitch' more in line with other one-hit Specials. Yes, it makes the 'glitch' rarer, but I do not see that as a problem.

Here are a few additions to some calculations made above, assuming it takes three of a kind to use the 'glitch':

  • A Great (at least 3 Flawless): ≈ 1 / 2_008
  • A Stone of Bryvx (at least 3 Perfects): ≈ 1 / 52_173

If a change was to be made to the 'glitch', I prefer making it require three of a kind. Yes, it makes getting some of the powerful structures in Gem less likely. But it puts it more in line with the rest of the game in regards to the probabilities. Adding a gold cost on top of it to force a decision about trade-offs throughout the game would be excellent as well. A three of a kind move would honestly be easier to balance. And on top of that, I would be willing to remove the rock removal and time requirements.

VII. A Bigger Rework

Some sort of larger rework that affects the game more drastically. This would involve ditching the 'glitch' as we know it and adding a comparable move into the game that works differently to the slight rework described above. Something of this nature actually could be a better long term solution in terms of increasing replay value. But it would also be a massive change for most players. For example, collecting pieces over multiple rounds, then being given the option to combine and skip a quality, or just combine them. Who knows?

In regards to collecting and combining gems over multiple rounds, this is also an idea I like. But I need to play with it more in my head. The problem with a three of a kind ability is that it still is primarily about luck. This collect over multiple rounds move would allow players to collect slowly and build up, even when luck is not in their favor.

This is probably not a short-term solution. Still, it is something to consider. Although, I don't know if I would want to add both move into the game.

VIII. Removal

Remove the 'glitch', and do not add in a comparable maneuver. This is a viable strategy because I am almost certain the 'glitch' was never intended to exist. This would return Gem to the path that was originally intended. To be honest, I do like giving people the ability to approach their luck from a different perspective, especially in the early game. This option would remove that, sadly.

What Now?

When I think about the defining features of Gem, the 'glitch' does not even make it on my list. Two of a kind, definitely. Four of a kind, despite how rare that is, most certainly. The bug that is known as the 'glitch'? No, I do not consider it a feature of Gem. I doubt few honestly do.

Like I said, the 'glitch' is not all bad. It does open up some interesting options early game. Yet, the vast majority of people only use it for the end game level structures it can provide. I do not feel balancing around the 'glitch' is the right move to take because that would only hurt the standard methods of combining.

The only viable options that I see regarding the 'glitch' are either: 1) the slight rework, as mentioned above (three of a kind, plus a gold cost); or, 2) outright removal. To be fair, both these options involve removing the 'glitch' and the behavior revolving how it currently works. It is a bug, of that there is no doubt. So in a sense, the 'slight rework' is really more about officially adding a new move to the game: the ability to use three of a kind, plus a scaling gold cost that depends on gem quality, to combine and then skip a quality. This move has many of the good qualities the 'glitch' currently provides, fits in far better with the rest of the game in regards to probabilities, and is far easier to manage in regards to balance without throwing off other aspects of the map.

At this point I am fairly set in stone with respect to my opinions; regardless, I still want to hear what other people have to say.

Look here for other ideas related to this situation.

@nvs nvs mentioned this issue May 22, 2016
@nvs nvs modified the milestone: Gem (Post 3.1) Balancing May 23, 2016
@nvs nvs closed this as completed May 23, 2016
@nvs nvs reopened this May 23, 2016
@nvs nvs removed this from the Gem TD+ 1.1 milestone Jun 27, 2016
@nvs nvs added this to the Balancing Gem TD milestone Jul 6, 2016
@nvs nvs changed the title The 'glitch' The 'Glitch' Jul 6, 2016
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nvs commented Aug 1, 2016

Here's another idea. In addition to this three of a kind move, consider adding a new quality of Gem above Great. This would require either 3 or 4 Perfects, or use the three of a kind move, to skip a quality. Would it be powerful? Sure. But due to its rarity, it can be balanced as needed. Stronger than a Great, to some extent. Not game breaking, but perhaps a lot more useful.

The reason for doing this is simple: to be able to detach the Stone of Bryvx from the standard combine system in an attempt to make it more common. I think it would be best, in a sense, to pay homage to the original map maker by having the tower that has his namesake be more common, so more people could see it.

Now, how could this be done? Well, if it's not constrained by the normal combine system, then that opens up options. One that I particularly like is having its requirements be the presence of any 3 or 4 Perfects in a single round (have not decided on which option). Obviously, it would need to be balanced accordingly. Think much weaker than it is currently, and a bit more in line with the Specials. And by detaching it from the normal system of combining it can be adjusted without the risk of harming balance there.

I wouldn't want to make a habit of adding recipes that exist outside the standard recipe system. However, this is a special case. I think it would be okay to have this exception.

For those wanting to see numbers (with additions in bold and the 'glitch' struck through):

  • A 3-piece Special: ≈ 1 / 1_036
  • A 4-piece Special: ≈ 1 / 13_485
  • A Great (the 'glitch') (at least 2 Flawless - same type): ≈ 1 / 77
  • A Great (at least 3 Flawless - same type): ≈ 1 / 2_008
  • A Great (at least 4 Flawless - same type): ≈ 1 / 104_264
  • New Stone of Bryvx (at least 3 Perfects - any type): ≈ 1 / 117
  • Old Stone of Bryvx / Bryvx's Gem (the 'glitch') (at least 2 Perfects - same type): ≈ 1 / 656
  • New Stone of Bryvx (at least 4 Perfects - any type): ≈ 1 / 2173
  • Old Stone of Bryvx / Bryvx's Gem (at least 3 Perfects - same type): ≈ 1 / 52_173
  • Old Stone of Bryvx / Bryvx's Gem (at least 4 Perfects - same type): ≈ 1 / 8_274_747

Now, what about the gem quality above Great. I have not thought about that at all yet. I'll update once I have. Well, an idea for names for these structures could be, for example, Bryvx's Diamond. Rare, but that's okay. Each one can be balanced individually as needed. As for how it looks, maybe make it use the model for the units that current run on Level 42. Add an orb that glows similar to the color of the gem type, and have it shoot out a projectile to match.

As for the Stone of Bryvx, rework it so it is pretty unique. For example, change its damage type to match the armor type for that round, ensuring it does maximum damage every round. No other tower can boast this flexibility. The aura would probably be stripped, though.

@nvs nvs changed the title The 'Glitch' The original issue about the 'glitch' Aug 4, 2016
Repository owner locked and limited conversation to collaborators Aug 4, 2016
@nvs nvs modified the milestones: Gem TD+ 1.3, Balancing Gem TD Aug 9, 2016
@nvs nvs modified the milestones: Gem TD+ 1.4, Gem TD+ 1.3 Aug 14, 2016
@nvs nvs modified the milestone: 1.4 Sep 16, 2016
@nvs nvs removed their assignment Sep 16, 2016
@nvs nvs added this to the 1.3 milestone Sep 18, 2016
@nvs nvs self-assigned this Sep 18, 2016
@nvs nvs closed this as completed Sep 18, 2016
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