Bookmark synchronization/online backup #622
Comments
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Just my 2 cents ... this could be made compatible with Nextcloud :) |
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This feature should be user-friendly, with privacy in mind. You can help us to plan it :) |
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An automatic backup feature to a location of user's choice using Android's Storage Access Framework or something similar is one way to go. It's easy to use and compatible with any cloud sync/drive app that can either sync a local dir or provide it via SAF. That way it won't require adding support for some cloud service directly into the app. |
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Hi from Nextcloud! :) cc @eneiluj and @tacruc of the Nextcloud Maps app: https://github.com/nextcloud/maps/ We would love to help make it possible to sync favorites between Organic Maps and Nextcloud Maps so people have a great open source way to save their private maps info. We could even do more sync like searches and routes in the future. @eneiluj and @tacruc can explain the more technical aspects of Nextcloud Maps and how we could sync favorites with Organic Maps. :) |
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Just dropping https://remotestorage.io/ as a backend to consider. |
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HI together, |
Thank you very much, tacruc! It's exactly what I was searching for! As a temporary solution, thanks to your API definition, I was able to develop a very basic app that allows to open the Nextcloud Maps geobookmarks in any android app supporting Geo URI (my use case is Organic Maps, but Google Maps and many others are supported...). Don't expect bells and whistles, it's the bare minimum to get me on the road again, but I hope it can be useful to someone.
If anyone is interested, it can be downloaded from the github page and soon will be available on F-Droid. I also hope the source code can be useful as an example to integrate Nextcloud Geobookmarks support in Organic Maps. In case anyone would like to try and needs any clarification on my code, I will be glad to help! |
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Hi @matrixik @tacruc @GLLM and all others interested in this, Since I understood feature requests had to go in the 'discussion' section, I wrote a feature request for synchronisation with Nextcloud Maps. Happy that there's an issue for this as well :) (more visibility, easier to track). Thanks @penguin86 for adding the reference to this issue in the discussion thread, and for creating the Nextcloud Maps client. I hope it'll serve as inspiration and help for implementing synchronisation in Organic Maps! I want to have a single map app that offers offline service, allows me to submit map contributions and does routing. Organic Maps has all that and (I couldn't try it out, but I suspect that) the Nextcloud Maps client won't be able to do all that. So synchronisation between Nextcloud Maps and Organic Maps would be the best solution for me. Unfortunately I don't have development skills, so I can only encourage others :) |
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Another idea: optinally, use a user-defined folder for saving/updating bookmark lists as text file(s), so the user can use a private git repo for commit/checkout/share bookmark lists. |
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Why git repo? What are the benefits? |
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@biodranik I found that git is better than general clouds (e. g. NextCloud) for syncing text files, and I automatically get the features such as keeping file histories, merging changes, etc., plus there are lots of git services that provide free private repos. |
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Do you plan to edit and merge it manually? |
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@biodranik if OM uses text file for bookmarks, yeah I will. I have some old backups of places from other map apps I always wanted to merge into OM's lists. |
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KML uses XML format, it's not funny to merge manually. |
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I recently migrated from the old Maps.me and I am a bit worried since I discovered that OrganicMaps does not store bookmarks in a place on the phone where I can just copy and backup the files manually; in my experience, Maps.me used to crash relatively often and sometimes it would destroy the KMB file currently in use, deleting dozens of bookmarks at once. So it was pretty important to backup bookmarks often. On how to do it, another option would be to have a way for OrganicMaps to store or automatically export bookmarks into a user-defined public folder on the phone, either as its primary bookmarks storage or as a form of automated backup whenever a bookmark is updated. This way, users could use their own synchronization/cloud app to sync that folder to a server, without the need for OrganicMaps to support and implement many possible protocols and systems for cloud storage. |
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It's an Android 11 requirement, that we can not store bookmarks in the user-accessible folder anymore. Maybe it could be possible to create a button with "manual backup to the specified folder", which will request permissions from the user. But it should be investigated first. @rtsisyk what do you think? |
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One thought: Would it be feasible to start with an option to store a Sync File (CSV, KML, KMZ,...) on a configurable storage via FTP/SCP/WEBDAV. The Storage target might be provided by the user (Server,Path, User, Pass) in the first step, maybe later a "native" Solution can be integrated. |
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The default solution should work for most users and be as simple as possible. That's why "geeks-only" solutions are not in the priority (and they actually may require a lot more work). The most complex part is authentication. It would be great to reuse an OSM account, for example, but forcing people to register in OSM for backups is also not good. Do you have any ideas on how exactly the sync/backup should behave for non-technical users? |
I know a lot of non-technical users having access to some nextcloud instance (hosted by family members, friends, university, company...). So i think having the option to sign into you nextcloud (with maps app enabled) and have a builtin sync is very user-firendly and would also satisfy a lot of us geeks. |
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There are several important parts for sync (remember, we want to support non-geeks too!).
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@biodranik what could be useful and keep the maintenance work off of your side is to allow people to connect their accounts:
In addition to what @tacruc said at #622 (comment), for Nextcloud support you could use our single sign on library for mobile: https://github.com/nextcloud/Android-SingleSignOn/ |
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This approach is only feasible if we somehow implement all auth-related stuff on the web, with only a few lines of code to open webview and get auth results back in the app. |
pastk
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Bookmarks and Tracks
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@adegans your tone and your attitude are very disturbing and definitely not polite. Please, consider writing the same thoughts but in a more respectful and empathetic way. Frustration is not an excuse for being so aggressive. You have the right to voice your thoughts and what you are thorn by, but nothing excuses using strong and assertive words. |
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@xplosionmind sigh is all I can say to that. If voicing frustrations and ideas is too "strong and assertive" for you guys then I have nothing else to contribute here. |
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@xplosionmind Your own criticism of @adegans comes across as sanctimonious and censorious. This forum is not (yet) a kindergarten with a speech code. @adegans is not being "aggressive". He is being entitled. He is seeing this project in terms of "us and you" ("You have some sort of plan", "we can wait for you to do your magic", etc). But again, adegans, why are you expecting anything at all from people who are completely unpaid volunteers? Put yourself in their shoes. You're not paying a penny and you're not contributing code. So even if they don't have a plan, what's that to you? It's the entitlement that irritates me. There is no customer relationship to be served here. As users, we are just takers. We are owed nothing at all. If the frustration of not being in a commercial relationship is so bad, maybe go find a paid product to buy. Coz whining here is at best useless and at worse (as you can see) it will just annoy the people who are doing the actual work that we all want to benefit from. |
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If being frustrated about the lack of progress or even a vague promise/milestone for a popular feature request is being entitled then so be it. All I was pointing out and asking for is some clarity while providing logical input/suggestions on how this feature could work. If that's being entitled then your last few posts whining about my supposed entitlement are no better. So have fun hiding behind your "it's free so shut up" nonsense as I'm sure this topic would be just as lengthy and slow as when everyone paid $10 or even $20 for the app to buy it. With the minor difference that perhaps, just maybe there would be a roadmap with this item on it. And with that, I sign off. Clearly my input and opinions are not wanted here. Waste of time. I wish you all a good day and sorry for trying to make suggestions and asking about things... Or, in your interpretation - being entitled. sigh |
One thing I will never understand is that instead of waiting for a year (or whatever), you or anyone else could have learned enough about Android and cloud development to start working on this feature if it is so important. Perhaps even complete it. |
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Maybe add synchronisation with Proton Drive? Or create QR code to share? It depends how in app it is stored. Can you provide me sample of bookmark I backend (I mean like app store it) |
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Could this maybe be implemented via the introduction of Organic Maps accounts, using Organic Maps servers with data that's end-to-end encrypted by default, or would this be too big an endeavour given the project's current resources/priorities? |
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Could the OSM account be used for this? since the app already has and auth workflow for it. |
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Yes, of course. The main issue is not with the way to authenticate, but with other things ) |
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@arigit, when you ask "Could the OSM account be used for this?", do you mean for authentication or for data storage/syncing? You suggest that 99% of the user base would be OK with "platform native" storage. I wonder if that is accurate, because one of the main reasons to use Organic Maps/OSM is to cut dependency on Google/Apple. |
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Reading the discussion on this issue (and the title) I see three different use cases, in increasing complexity:
Because 1. and 2. could be combined in a single solution that would be clearcut compared to 3. and retain some value by itself even if 3. someday becomes reality, I would suggest splitting off "backup and export" to its own issue and leaving this issue to focus on the bigger solutions to 3. active sync. @biodranik |
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@HansCronau I think you are right RE OSM not supporting this. Maybe a solution like @kirylkaveryn mentions but for android, using google drive, could be a useful trade-of, |
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For this project I cannot understand why anyone would think a solution involving proprietary Apple or Google software is a solution at all. It's not. This projects styles itself as user-centric and privacy-respecting. If people want Google and Apple spyware mapping, they have it already. They're not here. |
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So, apparently: "No ads, no tracking, no data collection, no crapware." is now:
For a project that calls itself FOSS and talks up privacy, the right solution to this problem is not to prop up the Big Cloud duolopy. It is surely either:
Actually, it's both of those things. The first is the one I want and it is not so hard to do. OsmAnd does it already. |
The question is not about the tools that should be used for syncing the data but is about giving a user the choice and not and not making a decision for him in this case and be fair. The current solution with iCloud for ios is fully opt-in and doesn't force users to enable it. Even though it notices users that it is an iCloud but not just "some sync that is best for you". 99% of iPhone users want to sync files using iCloud out of the box, without sharing any data with some thirdparties or making additional authentication. I think it is OK to give them this opportunity.
Personally, I don't want to create an additional account in osmand backup system. |
While this is not plain wrong and may in fact seem very reasonable, I feel it overlooks the fact that there's the question of what choices to prioritise (and whether to develop any of the features discussed in this thread in the first place).
I understand that you are using a figure of speech with the "99%" statistic, but it makes me wonder if there is any real data on what Organic Maps users actually want. We're not talking about any iPhone user here. We're talking about Organic Maps users that (for one reason or another) also use an iPhone. A 80%+ statistic would frankly surprise me. Also note that iCloud/Apple is a third party too. |
Neither do I and I never mentioned OsmAnd's silly in-house backup thingy. What I said is that OsmAnd makes a P2P endpoint available. So that users can use any sync tool to get the data in and out of another app. This is what I do. Currently I sync a GPX file from QLandKarte (desktop) to OsmAnd. And it works, sort of. (The problem is colors and symbols, because GPX does not standardize them and so individual apps encode them in their own special ways.) To get back to the point, I generally agree with @HansCronau's analysis. IMO this whole issue needs 2 separate solutions, to cover both normie users and power users:
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Surely many people would use it and will be very happy with it. Some apps go a long way to provide users with the best possible privacy-respecting options, while other apps do less. There are many "grades": While an integration with a mainstream service will be certainly enjoyed by many users - it would certainly dilute the "privacy champion" image OM has/had. I'm writing it not as a critique (and I admire all the effort you've recently put into the iOS version! incredible!). Its just to better understand why people might have a different perspective on it. |
Can the mainstream app (I think that mainstream != bad and FOSS != geeky) be respectful for both users who really care a lot about data privacy the users who just want things to work? IMO the best solution will allow users to make a choice between the grades you describe, will respect their choice and will not force to use smth they do not want. |
This kind of mismatch between people's expectations and the reality of what OM actually is - is not uncommon lately, unfortunately. I believe its largely because the common description of OM found in stores, on GH, web-site, etc. promotes an image which is far from being accurate. I've created a discussion about this issue: |
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@pastk I think the argument above is outside of the context of the discussion. The original ask is to allow the list of favorite or saved locations to synchronize using the mobile OS tools offered to apps. So that if the mobile gets stolen or swapped, the data stays with you. |
Well actually I think that generally bookmarks are a more sensitive information than pure location data (depending on how one uses bookmarks of course). As basically bookmarks are location data (where one has been) often combined with comments which could be very sensitive like with who and where one met, where do friends live, etc.)
It should be encrypted by default, unless a user explicitly opted-in to e.g. use the cloud to share their bookmarks with others (usually it'd be some selected "public" lists, not all bookmarks). @kirylkaveryn bookmarks are encrypted when synced to iCloud, right? |
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I don't know where the Organic Maps team stands on the idea of adding paid features. But I believe people would be willing to pay something for a well-built option to synch bookmarks across devices that's end-to-end encrypted by default (via a formal account like Firefox does it, or without like Brave does it). I also believe end-to-end encryption should be central to any such effort in order to stay true to Organic Maps' current pro-privacy and anti-surveillance stance. |
and others
I see that it was disabled because of proprietary server #23 (comment)
Maybe it would be developed to use other opensource backend? I'm thinking it would be nice to be able to send backups to external git repository.
I see two pluses:
Minus:
Also #613 could be stored in it.
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