Boiler heating status in Home Assistant thermostat #620
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simple to add, would need to first test on other systems. What would the name this control? @MichaelDvP what's your opinion? |
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This is what |
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Not in the case of my Bosch 2300 boiler (recognised by EMS-ESP as Logamax Plus GB122), no. It is now currently in idle mode, but heating_active is on regardless: This is when it was in DHW mode (gas was off when copied the values, but probably because water was already hot enough). And this is when the boiler was in heating mode for real. The only way I could assign this state to a HA binary_sensor was with a template |
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What ems-esp-version do you use? |
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EMS/ESP is the latest main, v2.1.0 The boiler currently doesn't do anything, but heating active is still on: |
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Ok, your boiler doesn't have the 0x18 telegram, thats why servicecode and |
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Thanks! This is from DHW mode: Idle again a few times (not every byte is the same): During heating (a few times because it seems to change quite a lot): And finally idle mode after heating: |
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Thanks, it should be interesting to have also the complete telegram in DHW mode. But so far i see: @realthk: Can you please try to catch the DWH telegram and look at your boiler to check what temperatures are around 50°, which around 35° . In the show values i think not all is right. And i wonder from where you get
this is only in telegram 0x18. |
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That's great! I think the main point is to be able to tell what is the boiler doing, so those 203 and 200 values might help. I have very simple system: no room for water-storage in the small bathroom, so it is a flow-through DHW, and the heating is done with radiators, no floorheating. Water temp is usually around 50C, but when I captured that data, it was just started for test, so it might have very well been about 35C, you're right! I also have Dallas sensors on the pipes, and checking their log now, it seems the outgoing line was 35C indeed. Do you mean then EMS-ESP suddenly interrupted telnet connection, and after logging in again: At the beginning, it must have been around thirty-something, at the end, it should have reached the selected hot water temp which is 52. That strange "intern" temp also has reached 52, so it must be correct, wherever it measures: After a long cool-down, 20 mins later, "intern" temp decreased nicely, so it must be correct, while "current flow" is still high, I don't know what it could be: |
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"Current flow temp" seems to be in line with the value displayed on the boiler itself: even though DHW is set to 52C, after having a shower, at the end the boiler was displaying 61C - and that is what "Current flow temperature" shows still, long after it was reached. |
I've meant only a read to the E4, but this watch is better. It's always a good idea to start the watch before changing something to get the change, now we don't see tha start of hot water. So far:
But there is a lot of unknown stuff in that telegrams
I'll add service code and heating_active. |
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OK, so I've issued (connection was lost at this point. The water was still just lukewarm) |
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I've noticed another slight issue with this boiler/thermostat combo: which could be useful to see why the heating water has a certain temp, but this is not published as an mqtt thermostat sensor. There is a |
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The e5 is iteresting, but i can only identfy one value: N9-N27: within 4min something goes from 7-100% (valve/pump/fan?) I push a update to dev-build, also include the HA for target flow temperature. |
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Thanks, great progress: much more detailed info in show values, and also HA sensors! But now heating_active is always off, even though gas burner currently works at 15% in heating mode: I've capture some e5 and e4 data: At the end of this batch the heating water has finally reached 43.8C while the required temp was 37C, so the gas burner was switched off (seems it does it when temp is > required water temp +5.5C) Show values in this idle state (only the pump is running because of weather compensated mode): This is while in DHW mode. "Warm water charging" is fine, on, but "Warm water/DHW active" is off, just like heating was in heating mode. So now both of these are always off (while with the main version both of these were always on) But service code number seems to give a clue, isn't it? |
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There are a lot of codes for service number, 203 is idle, 204 is idle and temperature above setpoint. Also in normal action there is 283-burner starting, 284-gas-valves opening, 305 delay after dhw-priority. Other codes are error messages. |
Is this still part of the issue? The blue LED on my boiler will light if heating is active. But, the energy saving pump program may shut the pump off (it runs for about 4 minutes in every 10 when the burner is off...) and the burner. So the boiler appears active for heating, but is actually doing nothing. Is this what you're seeing? |
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What I'd like to see is when gas is being burnt for heating, then mark the state of the boiler/thermostat as "heating". Now the pump (or rather the whole boiler controlled by a system thermostat) can behave in two very different modes:
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If you're using HA, then you could define a new sensor which defines heating as (burner=on) AND (diverter=CH) rather than HW, or whatever your boiler uses to switch between heating and hot water. Then you'd definitely get what you're after, if it's not available in the MQTT info from EMS-ESP. Your pump stuff makes sense. I'm using weather compensation with room compensation, so probably the first option. With the second one, the pump may run constantly because the system has no way of knowing what the room temperature is and therefore has to circulate water constantly. You can change the hysteresis settings to stop the boiler cycling too much at low loads. Mine is set to 10ºC / 10 minutes so the flow temp has to drop 10ºC and the boiler wait 10 minutes between cycles. When the boiler's firing, it cuts out when the flow temp exceeds the setpoint by 4ºC. In mild weather, the boiler does short cycles like the one it's just done on the right here... |
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Service Code 200 (CH active) on my boiler also mirrors heating pretty well. |
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Ah, your pump has variable speed, that's nice. To make things worse, this small Bosch boiler cannot modulate its pump, so that runs always at the speed manually set on it - and this CW400 thermostat won't switch off the pump even though its weather compensated mode is always influenced by the room temperature. Perhaps your thermostat or boiler is more advanced, but no such hysteresis/wait timer setting on mine. It keeps on working if the thermostat instructs it to do so. Which is all day in WC mode. You are right, for DHW one has to have at least a 24 kW boiler if there is no hot water storage. So it seems I have to avoid this kind of weather compensated control and stick to a room-based only mode. Yes, thanks, I'll create HA status based on service code (I used |
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That's a pain. We are using the same thermostat (it's called Sense II in the UK) and all the boiler settings are hiding in the Commissioning menu of the CW400 with only one exception for me (hot water eco/preheat). Maybe you can find some of the settings in there or maybe, they're just not there on your boiler *8(. My boiler's minimum output is 30% (7.2kW) so control is difficult in mild weather. Also, I had to experiment a bit with mine to make it switch off completely overnight (unless it gets very cold). There are setback and summer settings that were very confusing and Worcester-Bosch in the UK couldn't explain them all! Anyway, it does go to sleep completely at night now. I use weather compensation with room compensation, what the manual describes as "Weather-compensated with the influence of the room temperature: Automated control of the flow temperature based on the outside temperature and room emperature. Sometimes in combi boilers ('flow' boilers?) the burner runs for a short period after the tap is turned off to reheat the plate heat exchanger so that hot water flows immediately when the tap is next turned on. UK boilers have an ECO setting to disable this. That might be why your burner runs after hot water for a short period. |
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Wow, you're absolutely right, thanks! Yes, the manual is very confusing indeed, with hardly any real-world examples... Bosch Hungary told me they have no direct end-user support, just gave phone number of local service person, who also turned out to be unhelpful (even rude a bit) The boiler running all night was a show-stopper for me, I was thinking about sending back this thermostat and get a simple room-only one instead - but now it worths to tune its curve settings a bit more, because otherwise the constant flow is not all bad during the day: it is more comfortable with the radiators not getting too cold. (yes, my "continental Bosch" boiler also have that eco mode, I'm using it) |
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Cool! Stick with it. It took me a few weeks to work out the right settings. I have radiators too and it’s great to have them at the right temperature rather than on/off. House is much more comfortable. EMS-ESP and HA is really handy to see what’s happening and tune the settings. |
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Junkers Cerapur Compact ZWB 24. |
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returned the firmware v2.1.0, the heating was immediately activated. |
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Indeed very interesting, ems-esp does not send any commands to the boiler on start. |
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on v2.1.0 ┌──────────────────────────────────────────┐ ems-esp:/$ show Boiler: Condens 2500/Logamax/Logomatic/Cerapur Top/Greenstar/Generic HT3 (DeviceID:0x08, ProductID:95, Version:43.05) { at this stage I installed a new firmware and rescanned the devices.
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hmm, I was in a hurry. it is interesting that if you press reset on esp32, then the heating icon on the boiler also disappears for a couple of seconds. |
There seems to be something wrong with the beta in device detection. This should be the same as in v2.1.
Seems your boiler uses some other telegrams. Can you please type in terminal
This command does not work on all boilers. For my GB125 the command is accepted by the boiler, but withing a few secondes overwritten by the controller (MC10). Therefore it's a read-only state. Maybe something similar with your system. |
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┌──────────────────────────────────────────┐ ems-esp:/$ watch on 08 |
since I do not have a thermostat, I really hope this command will work. |
On my system it's not the thermostat, it's the boiler control panel that overrides any setting of heatingActivated. The 0x18 telegram indeed does not publish a service-code. Is your controlpanel capable to show the service code? |
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there is sample of control panel
I don't understand how to find out. May be this? Just check this code =27 |
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I made a test to simulate your HT3 boiler and gateway and can't reproduce why the name's are switched. |
I got Boiler: HT3 (DeviceID:0x08, ProductID:95, Version:43.05) on 2.1.1b6 firmware |
I've just replaced a simple on-off thermostat (that was also integrated into HA through MQTT) with a Bosch CW400 connected to my Bosch 2300 boiler.
It works fine with EMS-ESP, apart from a small issue: there is no heating status info in the HA MQTT thermostat where it used to be.
The first part on this diagram was with the old thermostat, that provided this info. The green columns on the left show when the boiler was heating - but not any more with the new bus thermostat on the right:
It was done with status="heating", status="idle" MQTT messages
(though obviously it wasn't 100% correct all the time, because DHW has priority over heating, and the dumb old thermostat had no info about hot water production. Now, communicating with the boiler, even that could be avoided)
I guess it is not so straightforward now, as I cannot even see any sensor in HA (or a value in the console of EMS-ESP) that reflects the heating status of the boiler...
The only way I could detect it is
sensor.boiler_gas==on && sensor.boiler_warm_water_charging==off, then it must be heating right now.Could the MQTT thermostat messages be extended with this info, or is it too much boiler/thermostat dependant?
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