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Add a Quotation type with supporting properties #271

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danbri opened this Issue Jan 22, 2015 · 34 comments

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danbri commented Jan 22, 2015

https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/QuotationSchema

Draft schema (pretty basic)

Quotation A quotation from some work, attributable to real world author and - if associated with a fictional character - to any fictional Person. Use isBasedOnUrl to link to source/origin. Subclass of: CreativeWork
<div typeof="rdf:Property" resource="http://schema.org/spokenByCharacter">
  <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">spokenByCharacter</span>
  <span property="rdfs:comment">The (e.g. fictional) character, Person or Organization to whom the quotation is attributed within the containing CreativeWork.</span>
  <span>domainIncludes: <a property="http://schema.org/domainIncludes" href="http://schema.org/Quotation">Quotation</a></span>
  <span>rangeIncludes: <a property="http://schema.org/rangeIncludes" href="http://schema.org/Person">Person</a></span>
  <span>rangeIncludes: <a property="http://schema.org/rangeIncludes" href="http://schema.org/Organization">Organization</a></span>
</div>
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danbri Apr 4, 2016

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This has been floating around forever. I have recently created a 'pending' schema to surface some of these ideas that have been stuck in review, so that they can be seen, implemented, reviewed without diving around inside the issue tracker.

http://pending.webschemas.org/Quotation

The old Wiki page linked above has some more potential properties that could be added. We also should add an example, especially showing how to include the main body of the quotation (via 'text' property).

May also be relevant to #1061 for fact-checking sites.

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

This has been floating around forever. I have recently created a 'pending' schema to surface some of these ideas that have been stuck in review, so that they can be seen, implemented, reviewed without diving around inside the issue tracker.

http://pending.webschemas.org/Quotation

The old Wiki page linked above has some more potential properties that could be added. We also should add an example, especially showing how to include the main body of the quotation (via 'text' property).

May also be relevant to #1061 for fact-checking sites.

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vholland Apr 4, 2016

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There are two types of examples: quotes from fiction and quotes by real people. As an example, of both:

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "spokenByCharacter": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "Princess Leia"
  },
  "text": "Help my Obi Wan. You're my only hope.",
  "isPartOf": {
    "@type": "Movie",
    "name": "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope"
  }
}
{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "creator": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "Franklin Delano Roosevelt"
  },
  "text": "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
}
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vholland commented Apr 4, 2016

There are two types of examples: quotes from fiction and quotes by real people. As an example, of both:

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "spokenByCharacter": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "Princess Leia"
  },
  "text": "Help my Obi Wan. You're my only hope.",
  "isPartOf": {
    "@type": "Movie",
    "name": "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope"
  }
}
{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "creator": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "Franklin Delano Roosevelt"
  },
  "text": "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
}
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danbri Apr 4, 2016

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Updated http://pending.webschemas.org/Quotation with these examples.

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

Updated http://pending.webschemas.org/Quotation with these examples.

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danbri Apr 4, 2016

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Does anyone want to argue for the inclusion of more properties?

Or know where things got to in the Wikipedia/Wikidata world on this front? I found https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19581108 in Wikidata but it seems incomplete.

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

Does anyone want to argue for the inclusion of more properties?

Or know where things got to in the Wikipedia/Wikidata world on this front? I found https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19581108 in Wikidata but it seems incomplete.

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danbri Apr 4, 2016

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Note that Vicki's examples simply use isPartOf for the quotation coming from a creative work; earlier sketches used http://schema.org/isBasedOnUrl

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

Note that Vicki's examples simply use isPartOf for the quotation coming from a creative work; earlier sketches used http://schema.org/isBasedOnUrl

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TzviyaSiegman Apr 4, 2016

Structurally, I think this covers use cases in publishing without attempting to duplicate PROV-O or FRBR and friends. It would be a good idea to include examples of quotes from publications that are not intended to be credited to fictional characters. It is very common for a book or article to begin with an epigraph.

Something like this:

"@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "creator": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "F Scott Fitzgerald"
  },
    "text": "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaslessly into the past.",
    "isPartOf": {
    "@type": "CreativeWork",
    "name": "The Great Gatsby"
}

TzviyaSiegman commented Apr 4, 2016

Structurally, I think this covers use cases in publishing without attempting to duplicate PROV-O or FRBR and friends. It would be a good idea to include examples of quotes from publications that are not intended to be credited to fictional characters. It is very common for a book or article to begin with an epigraph.

Something like this:

"@context": "http://schema.org/",
  "@type": "Quotation",
  "creator": {
    "@type": "Person",
    "name": "F Scott Fitzgerald"
  },
    "text": "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne ceaslessly into the past.",
    "isPartOf": {
    "@type": "CreativeWork",
    "name": "The Great Gatsby"
}
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danbri Apr 4, 2016

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Thanks, @TzviyaSiegman - are you also suggesting we should figure out a pattern to represent the case where a quote like this one appears within another work? Let's say a book chapter leads with this Great Gatsby quote, ... the example above captures the basics of the quote (who said it and where); but how should we tie that to the chapter itself? /cc @RichardWallis @dbs

Ingredients include:

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

Thanks, @TzviyaSiegman - are you also suggesting we should figure out a pattern to represent the case where a quote like this one appears within another work? Let's say a book chapter leads with this Great Gatsby quote, ... the example above captures the basics of the quote (who said it and where); but how should we tie that to the chapter itself? /cc @RichardWallis @dbs

Ingredients include:

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TzviyaSiegman Apr 4, 2016

Yes, and I'm going to let @darobin answer.

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Dan Brickley notifications@github.com
wrote:

Thanks, @TzviyaSiegman https://github.com/TzviyaSiegman - are you also
suggesting we should figure out a pattern to represent the case where a
quote like this one appears within another work? Let's say a book chapter
leads with this Great Gatsby quote, ... the example above captures the
basics of the quote (who said it and where); but how should we tie that to
the chapter itself? /cc @RichardWallis https://github.com/RichardWallis
@dbs https://github.com/dbs

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#271 (comment)

TzviyaSiegman commented Apr 4, 2016

Yes, and I'm going to let @darobin answer.

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Dan Brickley notifications@github.com
wrote:

Thanks, @TzviyaSiegman https://github.com/TzviyaSiegman - are you also
suggesting we should figure out a pattern to represent the case where a
quote like this one appears within another work? Let's say a book chapter
leads with this Great Gatsby quote, ... the example above captures the
basics of the quote (who said it and where); but how should we tie that to
the chapter itself? /cc @RichardWallis https://github.com/RichardWallis
@dbs https://github.com/dbs

Ingredients include:


You are receiving this because you were mentioned.
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#271 (comment)

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Dataliberate Apr 4, 2016

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A http://schema.org/citation could be http://schema.org/isPartOf a http://bib.schema.org/Chapter

http://schema.org/citation is more about a work that cites another in its text. Source is a better match I believe for defining who or where a quotation came from. However the current definition of http://schema.org/source is way wide of what is needed here.

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Dataliberate commented Apr 4, 2016

A http://schema.org/citation could be http://schema.org/isPartOf a http://bib.schema.org/Chapter

http://schema.org/citation is more about a work that cites another in its text. Source is a better match I believe for defining who or where a quotation came from. However the current definition of http://schema.org/source is way wide of what is needed here.

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I have just posted a fix for #950 so isBasedOn is now available. Queued at http://webschemas.org/isBasedOn

(assuming nobody objects, which I would predict is a reasonable assumption)

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danbri commented Apr 4, 2016

I have just posted a fix for #950 so isBasedOn is now available. Queued at http://webschemas.org/isBasedOn

(assuming nobody objects, which I would predict is a reasonable assumption)

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(Now I'm thinking isBasedOn was a poor name since property isn't boolean. Investigating whether we've used "is*" for non-booleans...)

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danbri commented Apr 5, 2016

(Now I'm thinking isBasedOn was a poor name since property isn't boolean. Investigating whether we've used "is*" for non-booleans...)

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@danbri isPartOf

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philbarker commented Apr 5, 2016

@danbri isPartOf

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Thanks @philbarker. I just looked at the data too :)

We have lots of relational properties with names beginning with "is*", so this is ok.

  • isRelatedTo, isSimilarTo, isVariantOf, isConsumableFor, isBasedOnUrl, isPartOf, isAccessoryOrSparePartFor (relational)
  • isAccessibleForFree,isGift, isFamilyFriendly, isLiveBroadcast (boolean valued)

(via ./scripts/rdfa2nt data/schema.rdfa | grep "Property" | grep '#type' | grep '/is' )

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danbri commented Apr 5, 2016

Thanks @philbarker. I just looked at the data too :)

We have lots of relational properties with names beginning with "is*", so this is ok.

  • isRelatedTo, isSimilarTo, isVariantOf, isConsumableFor, isBasedOnUrl, isPartOf, isAccessoryOrSparePartFor (relational)
  • isAccessibleForFree,isGift, isFamilyFriendly, isLiveBroadcast (boolean valued)

(via ./scripts/rdfa2nt data/schema.rdfa | grep "Property" | grep '#type' | grep '/is' )

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SeminAl Jul 4, 2016

Guys, any idea when this will be published on schema.org? We are planing to implement it on www.quotetab.com. Is it possible to use it while it is in pending status and than once it is published to switch to real version?

SeminAl commented Jul 4, 2016

Guys, any idea when this will be published on schema.org? We are planing to implement it on www.quotetab.com. Is it possible to use it while it is in pending status and than once it is published to switch to real version?

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mfhepp Jul 5, 2016

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Can we please avoid using "Quotation" for this and use e.g. "quote"? Quotation is also used in the commercial world and me might want to extend schema.org lateron to support commercial quotations.


martin hepp http://www.heppnetz.de
mhepp@computer.org @mfhepp

On 04 Jul 2016, at 10:27, Semin Alkic notifications@github.com wrote:

Guys, any idea when this will be published on schema.org? We are planing to implement it on www.quotetab.com. Is it possible to use it while it is in pending status and than once it is published to switch to real version?


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mfhepp commented Jul 5, 2016

Can we please avoid using "Quotation" for this and use e.g. "quote"? Quotation is also used in the commercial world and me might want to extend schema.org lateron to support commercial quotations.


martin hepp http://www.heppnetz.de
mhepp@computer.org @mfhepp

On 04 Jul 2016, at 10:27, Semin Alkic notifications@github.com wrote:

Guys, any idea when this will be published on schema.org? We are planing to implement it on www.quotetab.com. Is it possible to use it while it is in pending status and than once it is published to switch to real version?


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chaals Jul 5, 2016

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Business also uses "quote" extensively. I think we should go with "Quotation" and if we want to describe a price offered from a business, we should use something that sounds more clearly like that.

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chaals commented Jul 5, 2016

Business also uses "quote" extensively. I think we should go with "Quotation" and if we want to describe a price offered from a business, we should use something that sounds more clearly like that.

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danbri Jul 5, 2016

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I can't speak for technical usage in ecommerce formats but my native speaker intuition for general colloquial usage is that "quote" is very widely used in the business / cost estimation sense and that "quotation", while used in both ways, leans somewhat to the "something someone said" sense.

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danbri commented Jul 5, 2016

I can't speak for technical usage in ecommerce formats but my native speaker intuition for general colloquial usage is that "quote" is very widely used in the business / cost estimation sense and that "quotation", while used in both ways, leans somewhat to the "something someone said" sense.

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RichardWallis Jul 5, 2016

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My native speaker intuition concurs with @danbri

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RichardWallis commented Jul 5, 2016

My native speaker intuition concurs with @danbri

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Aaranged Jul 5, 2016

FWIW Google Finance (e.g.) uses these locally-extended schema.org types and properties that include "quote" (none contain "quotation"):

FinancialQuote
afterHoursQuoteTime
quoteTime

Aaranged commented Jul 5, 2016

FWIW Google Finance (e.g.) uses these locally-extended schema.org types and properties that include "quote" (none contain "quotation"):

FinancialQuote
afterHoursQuoteTime
quoteTime

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mfhepp Jul 6, 2016

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ok, no more objections against "Quotation" for the liberal arts and "Quote" for the business worlds ;-)

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mfhepp commented Jul 6, 2016

ok, no more objections against "Quotation" for the liberal arts and "Quote" for the business worlds ;-)

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danbri Jul 6, 2016

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@mfhepp Thanks - I may quote you on that!

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danbri commented Jul 6, 2016

@mfhepp Thanks - I may quote you on that!

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@danbri I am looking forward to the quotation ;-)

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mfhepp commented Jul 6, 2016

@danbri I am looking forward to the quotation ;-)

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jaygray0919 Jul 6, 2016

When doing so will you use single quotes or double quotes?

jaygray0919 commented Jul 6, 2016

When doing so will you use single quotes or double quotes?

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danbri Aug 10, 2016

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This is available in pending, http://pending.schema.org/Quotation

... any feedback on it? Should we move it towards inclusion in the core?

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danbri commented Aug 10, 2016

This is available in pending, http://pending.schema.org/Quotation

... any feedback on it? Should we move it towards inclusion in the core?

@danbri danbri removed this from the 2015 sometime milestone Aug 10, 2016

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  1. Improve definition grammer...

    A quotation from some work, attributable to a real world author and - if associated with a fictional character - to any fictional Person. Use isBasedOnUrl to link to source/origin.

  2. Need to add or expand example to have the WHEN of the quotation. We have the property spokenByCharacter but no dateSpoken. We cannot use any dates from the CreativeWork because that aligns a work to a quote, but what if there is no creative work and a journalist has a need to state what date/time they got a quotation?...(see 3.)

    For instance, how can we use Quotation to note the date/time of when Abraham Lincoln said "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation..." without jumping hoops to linking it to the Gettysburg Address ?

  3. The Quotation definition is narrowed a bit too much I think in the definition with the phrase..."from some work". Can we remove that ?

thadguidry commented Aug 10, 2016

@danbri

  1. Improve definition grammer...

    A quotation from some work, attributable to a real world author and - if associated with a fictional character - to any fictional Person. Use isBasedOnUrl to link to source/origin.

  2. Need to add or expand example to have the WHEN of the quotation. We have the property spokenByCharacter but no dateSpoken. We cannot use any dates from the CreativeWork because that aligns a work to a quote, but what if there is no creative work and a journalist has a need to state what date/time they got a quotation?...(see 3.)

    For instance, how can we use Quotation to note the date/time of when Abraham Lincoln said "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation..." without jumping hoops to linking it to the Gettysburg Address ?

  3. The Quotation definition is narrowed a bit too much I think in the definition with the phrase..."from some work". Can we remove that ?

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ibobo Aug 24, 2016

Hi, just saw this proposal; I was waiting for a schema.org for Quotations! I will implement it on our website PensieriParole as soon as it's released officially.

@thadguidry
I think dateSpoken could be a duplication of dateCreated. The dateCreated in the case of the Quotation to me refers to the date on which the Quotation was conceived, so for a quotation from a book it's the date on which the book was written, for a part of a speech it will be the date on which the speech was written; datePublished for a quotation from a book is the date of the publishing of the book, for a part of a speech it's the date on which the speech was given. I don't see any problem in linking the quotation dates to its "owning" creative work.

ibobo commented Aug 24, 2016

Hi, just saw this proposal; I was waiting for a schema.org for Quotations! I will implement it on our website PensieriParole as soon as it's released officially.

@thadguidry
I think dateSpoken could be a duplication of dateCreated. The dateCreated in the case of the Quotation to me refers to the date on which the Quotation was conceived, so for a quotation from a book it's the date on which the book was written, for a part of a speech it will be the date on which the speech was written; datePublished for a quotation from a book is the date of the publishing of the book, for a part of a speech it's the date on which the speech was given. I don't see any problem in linking the quotation dates to its "owning" creative work.

danbri added a commit that referenced this issue Aug 24, 2016

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Could http://pending.schema.org/contentReferenceTime be useful for Quotation?

I have addressed @thadguidry 's points 1.) and 3.) with some minor edits.

2.) (spoken time) is partially addressed by noting that Event has recordedIn. As @ibobo mentions dateCreated, datePublished is relevant too.

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danbri commented Aug 24, 2016

Could http://pending.schema.org/contentReferenceTime be useful for Quotation?

I have addressed @thadguidry 's points 1.) and 3.) with some minor edits.

2.) (spoken time) is partially addressed by noting that Event has recordedIn. As @ibobo mentions dateCreated, datePublished is relevant too.

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Dataliberate Aug 24, 2016

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Also many quotations are not spoken, they appear in literary form only. So
I think that dateCreated is even more valid.

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Dataliberate commented Aug 24, 2016

Also many quotations are not spoken, they appear in literary form only. So
I think that dateCreated is even more valid.

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@Dataliberate the definition to date was very literary-minded, today's tweaks make it more applicable to quotations that don't have a canonical literary reference.

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danbri commented Aug 24, 2016

@Dataliberate the definition to date was very literary-minded, today's tweaks make it more applicable to quotations that don't have a canonical literary reference.

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thadguidry Aug 24, 2016

@danbri
No, contentReferenceTime still mentions 'works' ... I don't care about 'works'. rNews doesn't have this idea of a 'date of a quote' either yet. And Apple News Format has the Type, but not WHEN properties on them yet
Quote https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/General/Conceptual/Apple_News_Format_Ref/Quote.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40015408-CH32-SW1
and Pull Quote
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/General/Conceptual/Apple_News_Format_Ref/Pullquote.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40015408-CH31-SW1

re: 2. (spoken time) - I don't want to have to attach a quote to an Event.
I just have a need to attach additional data about a Quote itself.
When your a journalist... you write down who said what and when. We just need to capture all of these at a Quote level. Then the Wordpress, Drupal, and even rNews communities will have their cake.

thadguidry commented Aug 24, 2016

@danbri
No, contentReferenceTime still mentions 'works' ... I don't care about 'works'. rNews doesn't have this idea of a 'date of a quote' either yet. And Apple News Format has the Type, but not WHEN properties on them yet
Quote https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/General/Conceptual/Apple_News_Format_Ref/Quote.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40015408-CH32-SW1
and Pull Quote
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/General/Conceptual/Apple_News_Format_Ref/Pullquote.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40015408-CH31-SW1

re: 2. (spoken time) - I don't want to have to attach a quote to an Event.
I just have a need to attach additional data about a Quote itself.
When your a journalist... you write down who said what and when. We just need to capture all of these at a Quote level. Then the Wordpress, Drupal, and even rNews communities will have their cake.

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danbri Sep 8, 2016

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My preference would be to live with using dateCreated for the "date spoken" usecase, since not all quotes are from spoken speeches.

For example, Donald Trump recently said:

"Mainstream media never covered Hillary’s massive “hacking” or coughing attack, yet it is #1 trending. What’s up?"
URL: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/773181751749402624

He said this on Twitter via a textual post; he did not AFAIK speak those exact words.

But if others here agree with @thadguidry on this I'm not going to argue strongly against dateSpoken, it might have its uses. The pending extension was designed to reduce friction for adding potentially-useful properties. Perhaps we can evolve Quotation into the core and have a dateSpoken sub-property of dateCreated and leave that in pending a little longer? Thoughts?

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danbri commented Sep 8, 2016

My preference would be to live with using dateCreated for the "date spoken" usecase, since not all quotes are from spoken speeches.

For example, Donald Trump recently said:

"Mainstream media never covered Hillary’s massive “hacking” or coughing attack, yet it is #1 trending. What’s up?"
URL: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/773181751749402624

He said this on Twitter via a textual post; he did not AFAIK speak those exact words.

But if others here agree with @thadguidry on this I'm not going to argue strongly against dateSpoken, it might have its uses. The pending extension was designed to reduce friction for adding potentially-useful properties. Perhaps we can evolve Quotation into the core and have a dateSpoken sub-property of dateCreated and leave that in pending a little longer? Thoughts?

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thadguidry Sep 8, 2016

@danbri I would like to see that dateSpoken sub-property to be in pending, sure.

thadguidry commented Sep 8, 2016

@danbri I would like to see that dateSpoken sub-property to be in pending, sure.

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danielpetrica Feb 10, 2017

Any news about this?

danielpetrica commented Feb 10, 2017

Any news about this?

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danbri Mar 16, 2017

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Noting that we should at least update to use isBasedOn instead of isBasedOnUrl

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danbri commented Mar 16, 2017

Noting that we should at least update to use isBasedOn instead of isBasedOnUrl

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