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Ask bus stop quests also for platforms mapped as ways #4341

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tapetis opened this issue Sep 2, 2022 · 12 comments
Closed

Ask bus stop quests also for platforms mapped as ways #4341

tapetis opened this issue Sep 2, 2022 · 12 comments
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@tapetis
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tapetis commented Sep 2, 2022

Use case
According to the wiki, the tag public_transport=platform can be used on nodes, ways, and areas. However, the bus stop quests AddBenchStatusOnBusStop, AddBinStatusOnBusStop, AddBusStopLit, and AddBusStopShelter are currently only asked for platforms mapped as nodes. Only the AddTactilePavingBusStop is also asked for ways/areas.

Proposed Solution
Update the element filters of all bus stop quests to also include ways.

@westnordost
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Hmm, I see no reason to not do this.

@westnordost westnordost self-assigned this Sep 4, 2022
@westnordost
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I think maybe the reason why it has only been nodes so far was that if it is mapped as an area, the chance that bins, shelters and benches would be mapped separately. But on the other hand, I think it is well accepted that bin=yes on a public transport platform is fine as an attribute even if a separate bin is mapped.

@davidpnewton
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Bin=yes et al show there's a bin nearby. The node for the bin itself shows the exact location.

@nicorikken
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In the Netherlands I now see new quests for bus stops that exist both as ways and as nodes, causing duplication of effort and data. I already did the quests for the nodes. Not sure yet if I should do the same quests for the ways as well.

@Helium314
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See recent discussion in #4690.
SC not only asks for bus stops (highway=bus_stop), but also for public_transport=platform which may be mapped separately.

@matkoniecz
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which may be mapped separately.

but likely should not be - or should be not described/treated as representing bus stops

@mnalis
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mnalis commented Dec 22, 2022

but likely should not be - or should be not described/treated as representing bus stops

I agree it is incorrect if one uses highway=bus_stop to map (say) train stops.

However, it seems correct tagging to map bus stops with both highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform. In fact, such PTv2+PTv1 compatibility seems to be quite common: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buses#Bus_stops

That being said, I do not see what could be easily done (unless whole of OSM jointly decide to remove PTv1 tagging and go just with PTv2, which seems unlikely currently). StreetComplete specific hacks (e.g. trying to ignore highway=bus_stop which are near public_transport=platform+bus=yes would likely be both expensive as well as only exchanging one set of problems for another).

So I agree that not doing anything (i.e. continue asking asking for duplicate information on "duplicate" OSM elements) seems like the best course of action.

@matkoniecz
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tagging to map bus stops with both highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform

Though mapping them as single object is preferable if someone really wants to map public_transport=platform

unless whole of OSM jointly decide to remove PTv1 tagging and go just with PTv2

or drops bad parts of PTv2

@mnalis
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mnalis commented Dec 22, 2022

Though mapping them as single object is preferable if someone really wants to map public_transport=platform

The whole reason people map public_transport=platform in my region is because they want to indicate a way where passengers wait for boarding, instead of a single node where the vehicle stops. It makes sense to me, especially if platform is long (think: trains, trams) to use a way rather than a node... And for buses too in Croatia, as city planners here have a nasty habit of often placing public_transport=platform in the middle of bicycle=designated paths 😢 it is useful to at least document in OSM such cases.

I always though of public_transport=stop_position (and not public_transport=platform) of having a closer function to highway=bus_stop (which may also be used only as a node)... Although it does not help us here, as platform and not stop_position is semantically correct place to have bin=yes|no etc.

or drops bad parts of PTv2

Of course (although "modified PTv2" should probably be called PTv3 instead)

@matkoniecz
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I always though of public_transport=stop_position (and not public_transport=platform) of having a closer function to highway=bus_stop

from linked page:

Use public_transport=platform and/or highway=bus_stop and/or railway=platform to identify the place where passengers wait for the service.

@mnalis
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mnalis commented Dec 23, 2022

Use public_transport=platform and/or highway=bus_stop and/or railway=platform to identify the place where passengers wait for the service.

I know (hence the disclaimer about it being wrong semantically), what I was trying (unsuccessfully it seems) to explain there is that one cannot use node (like highway=bus_stop) as a way (like public_transport=platform), so the only useful solution (if we ignore unrealistic removing of all highway=bus_stop from the map) is status quo - i.e. continue to ask for same things twice (annoying as that may be, just like in #3407).

@matkoniecz
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Another options are to drop public_transport=platform, map both as an area, map both as node.

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