Skip to content
New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

Sign up for GitHub

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Jump to bottom

Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. #443

Closed
tmichel07 opened this issue Oct 2, 2017 · 15 comments
Closed

Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. #443

tmichel07 opened this issue Oct 2, 2017 · 15 comments
Labels
discussed and agreed wide review comment WR-commenter-agreed WR-response-sent WR-spec-updated

Comments

@tmichel07
Copy link
Contributor

comment sent by Goldstein, Glenn glenn.goldstein@viacom.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:17:59 +0000
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Jul/0044.html

In my opinion, the approach taken for supporting roll-up and paint-on modes (2 important caption styles in the US) could be simplified by having explicit regions attributes, as in tts:paintmode=”rollup” or tts:paintmode=”painton”. For rollups, the scrolling style could also be designated as “smooth” or “discrete”.

This approach would simplify the conversion of 608/708 captions to TTML, and eliminate the complexity and clutter of overlapping cues and timed tags.

Glenn Goldstein
SVP, Chief Technology Convergence Officer
Viacom MTS
@skynavga skynavga changed the title TTML2 comments on roll-up and paint-on captions Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. Oct 2, 2017
@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

Currently in TTML we leave the decision about smooth or stepped scrolling to the presentation processor, so it could be considered a user preference. I am happy to keep that behaviour.

I do not believe that roll-up and paint-on modes need to be signalled at all, since they are simply represented by the timed addition/removal of text. I'm struggling to understand why adding further attributes would simplify this rather than adding complexity.

Any other views, TTWG? Anyone share my perspective on this one?

@palemieux
Copy link
Contributor

I believe roll-up animation can be achieved by the presentation processor without explicit signaling in the document.

Authoring guidelines would be useful however, e.g. use of tts:displayAlign.

See, for instance, http://sandflow.com/imsc1proc/index.html with the following example:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<tt xml:lang="en"
    xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml"
    xmlns:ttm="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#metadata" 
    xmlns:tts="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#styling"
    xmlns:ttp="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" 
    xmlns:ittp="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml/profile/imsc1#parameter"
    xmlns:ebutts="urn:ebu:tt:style"
    ttp:cellResolution="40 30"
    ttp:profile="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml/profile/imsc1/text">
    
    <head>
      <styling>
            <style xml:id="s1" tts:backgroundColor="black"/>
        </styling>
        <layout>
            <region xml:id="area1" tts:origin="30% 10%" tts:extent="60% 80%" tts:displayAlign="after" tts:textAlign="left" ebutts:linePadding="0.5c" tts:color="white" tts:lineHeight="100%"/>
        </layout>
    </head>
    <body>
        <div>
            <p region="area1" begin="2s" end="7.4s"><span style="s1">Let the word go forth</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="4.7s" end="10.1s"><span style="s1">from this time and place,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="7.4s" end="12.8s"><span style="s1">to friend and foe alike,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="10.1s" end="15.5s"><span style="s1">that the torch has been passed</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="12.8s" end="18.2s"><span style="s1">to a new generation of Americans</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="15.5s" end="20.9s"><span style="s1">--born in this century,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="18.2s" end="23.6s"><span style="s1">tempered by war,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="20.9s" end="26.3s"><span style="s1">disciplined by a hard and bitter peace,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="23.6s" end="29s"><span style="s1">proud of our ancient heritage--</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="26.3s" end="31.7s"><span style="s1">and unwilling to witness or permit</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="29s" end="34.4s"><span style="s1">the slow undoing</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="31.7s" end="37.1s"><span style="s1">of those human rights</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="34.4s" end="39.8s"><span style="s1">to which this nation has always been committed,</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="37.1s" end="42.5s"><span style="s1">and to which we are committed today</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="39.8s" end="48s"><span style="s1">at home</span></p>
            <p region="area1" begin="42.5s" end="48s"><span style="s1">and around the world.</span></p>
        </div>
    </body>
</tt>

@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

You mean like at https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml2/#roll-up-example ? Perhaps that example needs to be improved? I seem to recall that @mikedo raised an issue about that not having the right tts:displayAlign value previously so we might already be tracking this...

@palemieux
Copy link
Contributor

I seem to recall that @mikedo raised an issue about that not having the right tts:displayAlign value previously so we might already be tracking this...

See w3c/ttml1#257

@mikedo
Copy link

mikedo commented Nov 15, 2017

I agree that adding a region attribute that explicitly invokes such behavior would be complicated. However better examples might help. A public test document will be available shortly.

@skynavga
Copy link
Collaborator

See also #459.

@skynavga
Copy link
Collaborator

I believe this can be closed without further action, as #459 will address the only useful comment here, #443 (comment).

@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

@skynavga I'm inclined to agree.

@skynavga skynavga added agenda and removed agenda labels Jan 8, 2018
@nigelmegitt nigelmegitt self-assigned this Jan 10, 2018
@css-meeting-bot
Copy link
Member

The Working Group just discussed Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. #443, and agreed to the following resolutions:

  • SUMMARY: Nigel to draft a disposition message
The full IRC log of that discussion <nigel> Topic: Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. #443
<nigel> s/#443/ttml2#443
<nigel> github: https://github.com//issues/443
<nigel> Nigel: We need to write a disposition message to send back to the commenter.
<nigel> .. I'll draft something for review by the group.
<nigel> SUMMARY: Nigel to draft a disposition message

@skynavga
Copy link
Collaborator

skynavga commented Feb 2, 2018

Closing due to closure of #459. Adding a new WR-for-disposition-action to record need for tracking further comment disposition processing while allowing issue to be closed.

@skynavga skynavga closed this as completed Feb 2, 2018
@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

I have a remaining action on this issue - reopening.

@nigelmegitt nigelmegitt reopened this Feb 2, 2018
@skynavga skynavga added this to the CR1 DoC Processing milestone Feb 19, 2018
@skynavga
Copy link
Collaborator

@nigelmegitt please draft a message to the commenter so we can close this issue

@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

Response drafted and circulated to member only list for review prior to sending.

@css-meeting-bot
Copy link
Member

The Working Group just discussed Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. ttml2#443, and agreed to the following:

  • SUMMARY: Nigel to review status of the draft and send if no further changes are needed.
The full IRC log of that discussion <nigel> Topic: Support for roll-up and paint-on captions. ttml2#443
<nigel> github: https://github.com//issues/443
<nigel> Glenn: This is the one where we need to send a message to Glenn Goldstein.
<nigel> Nigel: Yes that's for me. We began working on this a couple of weeks ago and then
<nigel> .. Glenn came into the discussion - it wasn't at the forefront of my mind that he is actually
<nigel> .. a member of this WG. So he's seen something in preparation, but I haven't yet formally
<nigel> .. sent it.
<nigel> .. Action still with me.
<nigel> .. Is there anything to comment on regarding the draft text?
<nigel> group: [silence]
<nigel> Glenn: I would say go ahead and send it, so the issue can be closed.
<nigel> SUMMARY: Nigel to review status of the draft and send if no further changes are needed.

@skynavga skynavga removed the agenda label Jul 19, 2018
@nigelmegitt
Copy link
Contributor

Comment sent and archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2018Jul/0009.html - since Glenn Goldstein has actually already responded to the draft, I think we can close this now. I will do so and apply appropriate labels.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment
Assignees
No one assigned
Labels
discussed and agreed wide review comment WR-commenter-agreed WR-response-sent WR-spec-updated
Projects
None yet
Milestone
No milestone
Development

No branches or pull requests
7 participants
@skynavga @cconcolato @mikedo @palemieux @nigelmegitt @tmichel07 @css-meeting-bot