Make raw milk -1 health instead of +1 health

[wapcaplet]

Summary

Content "Make raw milk -1 health instead of +1 health"

Purpose of change

Raw milk had a "healthy" attribute equivalent to pasteurized milk. While it is true that raw milk has a lot of good nutrients, it is also packed with potential pathogens that can make you sick or kill you. The bad_food attribute already present on raw milk can cause vomiting/nausea, but apparently no other adverse health effects.

Describe the solution

Set "healthy": -1 for milk_raw.

Describe alternatives you've considered

Simulating the many illnesses that drinking raw milk can cause would be substantially more work. Since the "health" value is a stand-in for general well-being and susceptibility to disease, this is a simple way to simulate the increase in risk from regularly drinking raw milk.

Testing

Spawned some raw milk and checked Eat menu for - health stat. Did not drink.

Crafted milk from the raw milk and ensured it got healthy after boiling:

Additional context

"Raw milk can carry dangerous germs, such as Brucella, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, E. coli, Listeria, and Salmonella, which can pose serious health risks to you and your family." ... "Raw milk can carry harmful bacteria and other germs that can make you very sick or kill you. While it is possible to get foodborne illnesses from many different foods, raw milk is one of the riskiest of all." ... "Some people who drank raw milk have developed severe or even life-threatening diseases, including Guillain-Barré syndrome, which can cause paralysis, and hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can result in kidney failure, stroke, and even death." CDC, Raw Milk Questions and Answers

[actual-nh]

Thank you, I missed that one...

[Fris0uman]

shouldn't it be 0 health, since the bad stuff is already handled by the "contamination" entry?

[actual-nh]

shouldn't it be 0 health, since the bad stuff is already handled by the "contamination" entry?

The things that raw milk can cause go rather beyond vomiting and nausea...

[Fris0uman]

Didn't we go through that already? Raw milk is not inherently bad it's just the stuff that can grow in it that can make you sick but it' not guarantee: #35829

[actual-nh]

Didn't we go through that already? Raw milk is not inherently bad it's just the stuff that can grow in it that can make you sick but it' not guarantee: #35829

Yes (except more like "can already be growing in it"). -1 Health doesn't make you sick in and of itself; it means that you're more likely to catch something. (Ideally, the low immunity diseases would be extended beyond colds and flu, although they should also be adjusted downward if you're not in contact with lots of NPCs.) That represents the situation rather well.

[Fris0uman]

that doesn't represent the situation well, drinking raw milk should not make you more likely to catch a cold or make you heal slower.

[actual-nh]

that doesn't represent the situation well, drinking raw milk should not make you more likely to catch a cold or make you heal slower.

If you're fighting off a low-level but chronic infection - which is known to happen to humans with Brucellosis, BTW - that's going to make you more likely to catch a cold AND heal slower. And just because it's called "influenza" in-game does not mean it isn't actually one of the other infections that can cause fever, nausea/vomiting, fatigue... Cryptosporidium can give you coughing, and catching that plus a cold would probably seem about like the flu or worse. And a coinfection is most likely to happen in someone immunocompromised, which - low Health - is likeliest to be the way that someone would actually be affected by just a -1. (I'm mentioning coinfection due to the Blood Analysis unit's existence. If not playing with it, it'd be even more possible that "influenza" is something else.)

[wapcaplet]

shouldn't it be 0 health, since the bad stuff is already handled by the "contamination" entry?

As noted, the "foodpoison" contamination only causes a chance of vomiting and nausea, which are pretty minor effects considering the pathogens in raw milk can literally kill you IRL. We have many other innocuous, non-lethal foods giving -1 health (lunch meat, bacon, cracklins, coffee syrup, cola, aspirin); to be honest I think raw milk should be even more negative than -1 but didn't want to rock the boat too much. I really don't agree with making it completely neutral at 0.

[Fris0uman]

If you're fighting off a low-level but chronic infection

Then add a new disease that does that and put it in the milk

As noted, the "foodpoison" contamination only causes a chance of vomiting and nausea, which are pretty minor effects considering the pathogens in raw milk can literally kill you IRL

Same response, I think -1 health is not the right way to represent that. In #35843 i've added the basis for the disease class and a way to add it to food, if the disease milk can give right now is not the right one it would make more sense to change it.

[actual-nh]

If you're fighting off a low-level but chronic infection

Then add a new disease that does that and put it in the milk

One, I'd prefer not to add diarrhea. Two, other than that it would lower Health (and probably Stamina).

[wapcaplet]

As noted, the "foodpoison" contamination only causes a chance of vomiting and nausea, which are pretty minor effects considering the pathogens in raw milk can literally kill you IRL

Same response, I think -1 health is not the right way to represent that. In #35843 i've added the basis for the disease class and a way to add it to food, if the disease milk can give right now is not the right one it would make more sense to change it.

In this PR, I primarily wanted to remove what is basically an exploit, that you can drink raw milk straight from the cow non-stop, and become more healthy by doing it. I agree it's only a crude fix, but so is everything else about the "health" number. If you think it's better for me to add a serious disease, and a nonzero chance of getting the "Watch the last moments of your life?" screen instead, I can do that, but then there should probably be a popup prompt when drinking raw milk.

[ZhilkinSerg]

I am on a fence:

[wapcaplet]

I guess I will convert this PR to draft mode until I can add a chance of fatal disease from raw milk.

[Fris0uman]

From the things I linked in #35829

During 2007–2012, a total of 81 outbreaks associated with nonpasteurized milk were reported from 26 states. These outbreaks resulted in 979 illnesses and 73 hospitalizations. No deaths were reported.

So death mighgt be an option but it's probably pretty rare.

Also in the mean time putting the health modifier to 0 instead of +1 would already do a little bit to fix the thing you wanted to fix

[wapcaplet]

Never mind. I am canceling this PR.

[Salty-Panda]

For people who ( like me originally ) would like to defend raw milk an basis of lower hygiene standard in food production in USA (which I think is a common stereotype in Europe)

Raw milk is often considered safe to consume in UE due to a set of standards regarding herd health and regular controls of milk. Those monitoring processes and industrial-scale procedures aren't applicable in a case of a single survivor.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268260157_Quality_of_the_milk_supply_European_regulations_versus_practice
http://msu.dotcmscloud.com/iflr/uploads/files/Student%20Papers/A_Brief_Comparison_of_United_States_and_European_Union_Standards_for_Fluid_Dairy_Products.pdf