Testers and feedback

[DimiVlachos]

Welcome! This is the place to talk about Bucky: how it works for you, what feels off coming from Hacker's Keyboard, and what you'd like next.

• Bugs and layout requests: please open an issue, so each one can be tracked and closed.
• Everything else: setups, ideas, questions and comparisons with HK go here.
• Latest test build: v0.1.0-alpha4. It has the full layout in HK positions, standard Estonian, and a fix for the bottom row hiding under the navigation bar.

If you test an alpha, it helps to say which phone, Android version and navigation mode (3-button or gestures) you use.

[ketas]

i meant two shifts

[ketas]

any chance the keys could be realigned to hk pattern?

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas got it, two Shifts like HK. I went through HK's own layout file (kbd_full.xml) and alpha4 still differs in a few places: HK has a right Shift after ↑, ◆ Meta and ○ on the bottom row, Esc a bit wider, a narrow ` key and Tab, and no Home/End/Del on the main layer (they're on Fn).

One catch: HK's real layout isn't centred. Its letters sit about one key left of the middle, which is what netllama asked me to fix in #51. So my plan is to keep the centred layout as the default and add a second one, "Hacker's Keyboard (classic)", with HK's exact positions, which you'd pick in Settings.

Does that match what your fingers expect? And did you use HK's ⚙ and ○ keys, or can those go?

[ketas]

tbh hk is weird too. it put ' into next row as otherwise enter won't fit. and that narrow key top left. but otherwise it followed the "brickwork" layout where b is middle of g h. but top row is bit shifted to right. and esc is on bottom

in short, hk uses some mobile optimized layout that i now can't forget after 10 years of typing

what are those circle and square keys anyway? settings key could also be hidden via options

also does it need to say shift and tab? it could use usual shift and tab symbols

unsure how easy it would be to make own layouts in future. but yeah at least one of them would need to replicate hk. perhaps without bugs

i also have my hk configured so text is so large it partially overflows buttons. esp. in fn screen. but without it, text is too small. while there, i have bucky labels at max but it's still too small

also what about getting some keys darker?

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks, that's really useful. Answers:

• ○ is HK's D-pad centre key (an OK/select button) and ❖ is Meta, the Windows/Super key. Bucky has neither yet. Both come with the classic layout.
• Next alpha: a "Hacker's Keyboard (classic)" layout with HK's positions and brickwork offsets (narrow ` key, Esc bottom left, right Shift, no Home/End/Del on the main layer), minus the bugs. The ⚙ key stays out unless someone asks for it.
• ⇧ and ⇥ symbols on Shift and Tab instead of the words.
• Bigger labels: the label size will go well past today's 140% maximum.
• Darker special keys, as in HK.
• Own layouts: layouts are already plain JSON files in the app. A layout editor is planned, and the GitHub/F-Droid build gets it free.

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas alpha5 is up with everything from your list: https://github.com/DimiVlachos/bucky/releases/tag/v0.1.0-alpha5

• "Hacker's Keyboard (classic)" layout (Bucky → Full layout style): HK's exact key positions, including the narrow ` key, right Shift, Esc bottom left, ❖ Meta and ○. In Estonian, <> sits left of z like HK's Finnish layout.
• Fn opens HK's Fn page: F1–F12 block, numpad, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn, Ins/Del, SysRq/ScrLk/Brk/NumLk.
• ⇧ and ⇥ symbols, darker special keys, and labels up to 200% (letters can spill a little past the key edge, like your HK setup).

Tell me which keys still land in the wrong place for your fingers.

[ketas]

what's this bottom bar btw?

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas that bar is Android's, not Bucky's: it's Samsung's 3-button navigation bar. While a keyboard is open it shows ∨ (hide the keyboard) and, at the right, the keyboard switcher. Gesture navigation (Settings → Display → Navigation bar → Swipe gestures) hides it.

Your screenshot still shows the centred layout. For the HK-style one: Bucky → Full layout style → Hacker's Keyboard (classic). It applies wherever you get the full layout, including your editor.

[ketas]

it's more like why is there yet another bar between spacebar and navbar which sometimes disappear?

apparently keyboards are difficult. actually keyboards aren't equally spaced

and hk created it's own hack i see. and now i can only use that, lol. nebe

[ketas]

... nevermind that i use finnish and not estonian

[ketas]

and i can't input ? nor ( anymore without shift?

you know it seems difficult to adapt keyboard for phone

i don't know what the real solution will be. hk compat mode will be nice, but i think a brand new one needs to be added too, hell knows which one

i mean can't really put real enter there and ' into ä row. and wider ~ won't fit, yet narrow one sucks to press

why is esc so massive btw?

oh and you looked at

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/KB_Estonian.svg

right?

i mean i'm trying to write using bucky but unsure what's wrong here

any chance it also responds to touch differently? not just keys. i'm constantly missing a letters

anyway keyboards are difficult to switch

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks, that's a lot of useful detail:

• ? and ( without Shift: that's HK's Finnish layout, not standard Estonian. The next alpha has Finnish in both styles, and the classic one copies HK's Finnish key for key (? unshifted, ~^ next to å, no dead keys).
• Esc was so wide because I'd left out HK's options key. It's back as ⚙ (opens Bucky's settings), so Esc is HK's width again.
• The Estonian layout follows that standard layout, yes.
• The extra bar above the nav bar: I can't reproduce it on my Samsung (One UI with Android 16, 3-button nav). Which Android/One UI version are you on, and does it show right when the keyboard opens, or after rotating or switching apps? A screenshot of it gone would help too.
• Missing letters: when it happens, does nothing get typed, or the key next to it? And is it more with fast two-thumb typing, or near the edges of the keyboard?

[ketas]

it seems like it misses a key in middle of keyboard completely if typing fast

seems likei can't reliably reproduce that bar on my samsung with android 13

rotation seems to do it, but that's not reliable either, as is keyboard switch, as is app switch

bar

no bar

as for shifted and altgr'ed keys, previously they were in long press and hold, but not anymore

that feature is exclusive to on screen keyboards so it can't follow any physical computer keyboard layout standards anyway

[ketas]

i think i type too fast and it fails to register maybe?

or i just hit something in the middle, as this has slight alignment change in keys

also wouldn't it be nice if space would show the ␣ and / or language selected

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks, the screenshots helped.

• Missed keys: found it. A key only typed if your finger lifted on the same key it went down on, so a fast tap that slid a little onto the next key was dropped. Fixed in the next alpha.
• ? and ( on long-press: popups with F-keys or AltGr symbols didn't include the shifted character. Every symbol popup now starts with it, as in HK.
• Space bar: it now shows the language, even with just one enabled.
• The bar: I can't reproduce it on Android 12, 16 or 17, so I'd rather not guess at a fix and risk the old bug where the bottom row hides under the nav bar. When it shows up, does it go away if you close and reopen the keyboard? And does it happen in Termux or only in Ted?

[ketas]

labels could be bigger on enter, etc

basically same issue as with alternate char selector

one feature that could be at least configured is how fn now can lock but also can't and by default it doesn't and it switches back to normal mode

lets add some features too. what about character selector screen with most common special chars

hk had bunch of weird symbols under keys, some of which i don't know why were put into there in tne first place. i don't know who used them

of course you can't possibly embed all unicode chars into map like that

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks, alpha11 has these: https://github.com/DimiVlachos/bucky/releases/tag/v0.1.0-alpha11

• Bigger labels in the preview: Enter, Home, PgUp and the other word keys keep the full size, and the bubble gets wider instead.
• Fn setting: "Fn stays on until tapped again" in settings. The default stays one-shot.

On the character selector: which characters do you reach for that aren't on the keyboard now? I'd rather add those as long-press alternates first, and keep a separate picker screen for later.

[ketas]

i don't exactly know which chars

i also find that keyboard still hard to use daily. unsure why tho. luckily hk still works

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas no problem, I'll leave the character screen for later.

"Hard to use daily" is the part I most want to understand. Next time you switch back to HK, could you note what you were doing just before? For example the app, and whether it was mistyped keys, a key you couldn't find, how a press or long-press felt, or the key sizes. Even one or two moments would help.

[ketas]

i don't know why really

[ketas]

while here, ee layout could improve alt letter labels

f1 f6 f12 ` \ [ ] € £ ½ „ … | aren't first for keys

hk actually showed two, shift & altgr

as for response, i don't know what could possibly be wrong here

also, pressed key highlight doesn't follow the finger. and popup label the has same issues as other popups had

tbh, i use this keyboard now and amount of mistakes is staggering somehow. even backspace needs like multiple taps. also keyboard isn't precise tapping tool. funnily the faster i want to type the more mistakes i make. unsure what logic hk has here but there it doesn't do it. damn!

[ketas]

btw where the other guys are :)

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks, this was very useful. alpha13 has:

• Typing order on fast rollover. If you pressed a key before lifting the previous one, Bucky used to type them in the order you lifted them, so fast typing could swap letters. A backspace pressed while the last letter was still down deleted the character before that letter, so it looked as if the backspace needed another tap. Bucky now types the held key as soon as the next one goes down, like HK.
• The highlight follows your finger. If you slide onto another key, the highlight and preview move with you, and lifting types the key that's highlighted.
• Two hints on symbol keys. Shift is on the left and AltGr on the right, so in ET 2 shows " and @, and 5 shows % and €. A plain hold still types the left one, and a slide gets the right one.

Two questions:

1. When you said F1, F6, F12, `, \, [, ], €, £, ½, „, … and | "aren't first", did you mean a plain hold should type those instead of the Shift symbol? @, $, { and } weren't on your list but sit in the same spot.
2. Which popup label has "the same issues as other popups had"? A screenshot would help.

And netllama is testing too; you'll see them in the issues and in #80.

[ketas]

maybe multitouch did it indeed. typing now, unsure how it. still something wrong is going on but i can't put my finger (what a pun!) on it

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks for trying alpha13. To find what's still off, could you record a short screen video with Show taps turned on (Developer options) while you type a sentence you know? It shows exactly where each finger landed and what came out.

Also, when you have a minute:

1. Should a plain hold type the AltGr symbol instead of the Shift one?
2. Which popup label still has the old problem?

[ketas]

well old one had bigger labels. hk

and no i don't think it should type altgr

also, it's mixed hold now. some type capitals, some type alternate

Screen_Recording_20261108_094116_Firefox_1.mp4

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas thanks for the video, it helped a lot. Two things I found:

• Most wrong letters came from taps landing on the border between two keys (o→l, d→s, l→k), and Bucky picks whichever key the exact pixel is in. I'm looking at favouring the key you're nearest the middle of.
• In "labbe", b was touched twice about 70 ms apart, once lifting and once landing again, so it typed twice. Does that happen with other keyboards on your phone too?

Bigger labels are coming in the next alpha: Enter, Ctrl and the other word keys get larger text, and the long-press popup now has square cells with labels as big as the keys.

About "mixed hold": holding a letter types its capital, and holding a symbol key types its first alternate. Which would you rather have?

1. Holding a letter opens its alternates (accents), as on symbol keys
2. Holding a symbol key types its Shift symbol right away, as letters type their capital
3. Something else?

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas the bigger labels are in alpha15: larger text on Enter, Ctrl and the other word keys, and a long-press popup with square cells and labels as big as the keys. Let me know if they're big enough now.

[DimiVlachos]

@ketas alpha16 is out. A correction to what I said earlier: Bucky already picked the key nearest your finger, so that wasn't the fix. In your video your taps landed slightly low and to the left of the key you meant, every time. alpha16 learns that offset as you type and shifts touches back toward the key. It needs a few dozen taps to settle, and Settings → Typing correction → Reset clears it.

Could you type with it for a day and tell me if the wrong neighbour keys get rarer?

[ketas]

if it lands low and left every time, then what?

i don't know how hk and bucky differ

i went to

https://abacktools.com/tools/image/utilities/image-stacker-overlay

and played with overlay

this doesn't take account what actual typing touch regions are

comparison images are

they are kind of similar but difference must be in where input lands or behaves. maybe hk is more tolerant to mistakes

typing this with bucky, i don't know. keyboards are not precise tools at all. nevermind the osd ones

i think i've adjusted to whatever hk had built in. is it a hk bug? if it's not a hk bug then hk must be doing something deliberately there. does it just allow more around the key touch? or release behaviour? will it also work if it offset typing to other directions? i can't easily do it or not at all

as for shift, i don't know. it feels mixed if some keys type capital and others type alternate. maybe add option for that too. this is different from hk