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New Quest: mtb:scale #559
New Quest: mtb:scale #559
Conversation
Translations will be available in Weblate as soon as the PR is merged. (https://translate.codeberg.org/projects/scee/) |
Do I only need to supply the default or can I also put my language in? |
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Default is english, your language will be overwritten from Weblate as far as I know. |
1 - Great |
I'm not very familiar with |
It helps, but to my knowledge it's less used than the scale, which is for descending. |
Similar to |
I think I've misunderstood the overlay, for me it's just an overlay, it doesn't let me know if any tags are missing. |
This morning I played with the overlays and I know why I don't use them. My use case: trail_visibility And then the width and incline as a bonus Unless I'm mistaken, if it's not quests I have to change overlay all the time? |
That is correct. Overlays were developed to provide a very specific type of information in a standardized and concentrated way. Personally, I also prefer to use quests instead of overlays, as I can add more diverse information this way. But in this case of the What is possible, however, is to combine several quests with one overlay. At least trail_visibility, smoothness, surface and tracktype are available as quests, then you could use the overlay for mtb:scale / sac_scale. Not ideal, but perhaps a compromise. |
@ravenfeld I think it's not only worth considering what you want to fill in, but what others might do. If you only care about your region and what you personally want to add when hiking, then of course there is little incentive for adding an SC overlay and a quest might be better for your use case. |
I'm looking into it, but it's a bit more complicated, especially the form. I'm going to propose an overlay for the |
Can't you just take the basic form e.g. from surface overlay?
You can also propose an overlay for |
Yes, I understand, but then I can cancel the PR for the sac_scale and keep the quest for myself. In my opinion, you have to try to be consistent. But I'll check with SC as the overlay is expected for mtb:scale. Then I'll propose what I'm doing on my fork, after that if it suits you no problem to close. |
I agree, as both tags are similar.
I would say From another point of view, one could also argue for the two quests in favor that both are always deactivated for all SCEE users in the beginning and must be actively activated, including a corresponding warning message when activating them. Anyone who is traveling in the middle of a big city and has the quest active and answers where it should not be should not call themselves an "expert". As the app says when you install it: with great functionality comes great responsibility. |
After setting up the relation=hiking for the sac_scale, I propose to do the same for the mtb:scale so that it corresponds to my use but also so as not to pollute people who don't want to indicate it everywhere. |
Every now and then I check notes created with SCEE, and in my opinion there are too many people who seem to have too little OSM knowledge. For this reason I want quests to have no spam-danger by default.
If for some reason you demand that it must be the same way of implementation, i.e. that I must accept the |
I'm not forcing anything, sorry if I worded that wrong. I'm bad at English and often use a translator to help me. I'm just trying to be consistent. It doesn't change the fact that I'm trying to get an Overlay to work right now so that I can offer it on SC, it's more the form that's still holding me back. |
Oh, sorry for misinterpreting yout post.
Yes, this would be fine (in case the overlay is not happening).
Is there anything specific you need help with? |
For the moment it's fine, the problem is that the images aren't of good quality, so I might open the PR and ask for help. I'm doing some tests today and it's possible that I'll suggest it to them later today. |
@ravenfeld Where did you get the new images? I can help you with make them smaller with better quality if you guide me to the original versions :) |
It's the one on the osm wiki and for mtb_scale 6 on the via ferrata. |
They are straight from the wiki page. @ravenfeld maybe we can just go forward and make a PR here for the overlay. I don't see the SC folks accepting this. The conversation is just running circles there. I'm also not sure the changes requested to the text were actually good. I feel like we should better stick to a longer text, explaining it like exactly like the original authors of the scale intended. As objectively there's no reason to not mention skill for example, or grade with percentage. Meaning those texts should be used:
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@RubenKelevra I agree with you that it's all going round in circles. I suggested the code and now it's the descriptions and photos that are the problem. |
Why not? Just close the PR at SC, as it obviously not going forward there and we work here on the images and the text to fit the application. The original text is available in German, Englisch and Italian. The rest would need to be translated. And due to the text size it may make sense to have just the Scale 1-6 written next to the text and expand the text if the user clicks on it - if that's possible? |
I'm bringing up the topic again on SC because I understand that some people would like to have it. I've had it on my version for several months now and so I forgot about you. |
I didn't have a "proper" look at your PR streetcomplete#5726, but from the discussion it looks like the issue is just images and text? How about we implement the current state of the overlay into SCEE? |
Do you prefer overlay over quest? |
Personally, I would like to see overlay as it would help modify existing paths and not only focus on paths that are missing the mtb:scale. Just my two cents here. |
I think each of the two variants has advantages and disadvantages. The |
In my case I have both on my application, but doing both on SCEE may be confusing. |
Just to throw in my opinion here: I think we should add both. I prefer to just answer questions while on the go, and switching to all the different overlays to see which data may be missing is kinda annoying. But I do see the advantage of having the ability to view and change the data already present in an overlay. I don't see a reason why a quest will lead to lower quality data. The decision by the user is based in both cases on the offered selection, and if unsure a user should never answer a quest anyway. |
I agree with @mcliquid that overlay is good idea and should be added (regardless of whether the quest is also added).
Not everybody is MTB downhill expert, even among SCEE users familiar with the wiki who are also avid cyclists (myself included). 🤷♂️ That being said, I'm quite fine with quest too, provided it is made less spammy by default - i.e. make it depend on Overlays sidestep that issue (funnily) by their biggest shotcoming -- there can only be one overlay active. Thus, unless the user is active MTB downhiller, it is unlikely they'll be in |
Great comments here. However, I'm a bit unsure whether |
By default all quests in SCEE are deactivated. So the users have actively chosen to active it, before they see it. Why would you activate a quest where you lack the knowledge to reliably answer it?
I don't think smoothness is a reliably indicator if a mtb tag should be added or not. I know a lot of muddy, slippery, steep ways which are perfectly smooth, but 90% of the year very dangerous to ride on with everything than an mtb and advance skills. Spammy is also no issue for SCEE quests as far as I understand, at least not to the degree SC quests are. Even if we add a lot of No other tag will convey this information at the moment, as everything else, like track grade or smoothness only allows for guesswork here by the routers. Btw: Maybe we should think about adding an option for |
I'd prefer the overlay. Mostly because I have the impression the overlay will get added to SC at some point, but it may take a while. So the overlay in SCEE would mostly mean some sort of "early access", and maybe also helps gathering opinions about images and descriptions from real use. |
Yes, that is likely partly because For SCEE however, IMHO it makes extra sense, as SCEE will automatically ask one quest after the other, thus encoding both tags1
That would likely be a question for someone with masters in sociology and psychology to make an educated guess 😺 But we know it does happen2
As far as I know,
Not to the degree SC quests are. But did you read #559 (comment) I mentioned in previous comment? SCEE project owner stated "[...] For this reason I want quests to have no spam-danger by default" there. Thus, my suggestion how to make it less-spammy by default, so the quest might get accepted. As I also noted, it should not a be a big issue for the actual SCEE user, as SCEE quests (usually) allow for editing element selection, so individuals who are bothered by such limitations (and feel confident enough in their OSM usage) can remove those restrictions in
I personally am not opposed to that. I'm however worried about several things, but primarily:
You @RubenKelevra could open (and link it here) a thread at community forum and ask people if they would be fine with mass-tagging
Maybe, but they should be better defined on the wiki first IMHO. Currently it is very fuzzy to me. Footnotes
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Ok, I'm closing this PR and I'll open one for the overlay when my other PRs are finished so as not to have x PRs in progress. |
Same principle as sac_scale but to indicate the mtb:scale.
I'd use the same filter and validate it as for sac_scale.
I still don't know how the PR works for translations, so I've only used the default.
I'm wondering about the relevance of the photos, in the group I'm in we're not fans of these photos and it's more by habit and practice that we know what value to put.
I did a quick icon but no problem for you to push another.