Where did the ZeroNet creator go? #2749
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2019 worked from the content addressed data option what need big changes in the ZeroNet source code. The developer lives in a free country, I live in the same country. There is probably not enough benefit in this project. Nor is the community capable of effectively taking the project forward. For example, if you look at the bittorrent client you get money in crypto for uploads. Here, large files are unable to spread properly on the network. Compared to the torrent system, the most important thing is that the network is in huge lagging behind. Many similar technologies are available on the open net like lbry.tv. These closed networks all stop somewhere. Nor can the community donate enough to cover the cost of the project. I don't think there's enough money in it for developers, the community doesn’t even donate enough, there is no money in it for site owners, nor does the community develop anything on it on its own, there are no independent development teams behind the project either. |
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anyone of you familiar with Sam Maloney? |
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The real solution here would be for multiple teams to develop different ZeroNet softwares, which web pages and files would be equally accessible. IPFS, ZeroNet, Freenet neither is compatible with each other. There is no substantive development in any of the projects. Same as for the torrenting we have multiple torrent clients but all compatible with each other. And which developer does the best job you use that software. Here, if software development gets stuck then everything else gets stuck. Need a similar licence Like in Linux systems. Where the source code can not be closed. And developers are free to use each other’s enhancements. |
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In the beginning, everyone wants to start from the beginning, But lose courage till they reach the end, We are not interested in how it ends, That which started with pomp and show as per our wish. Zeronet have multiple issues and is not a perfect solution. Doesn't have large userbase. I won't say much, you can check it out on r/zeronet . The developer is just maintaining the project, because he know this. He is not a skilled mathematician, & programmer to solve the exisitng problems. mx5kevin, we can talk and i can share some of my plans. whats your xmpp? |
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Zeronet is well funded . There are 20 bitcoins donated on tomas bitcoin address. |
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@HelloZeroNet Closed a few random issues a few days ago so he's still around. Just not interested in working in project anymore it seems. |
who says it's him? Why isn't he interacting with people? |
Well you're right. I do not know for sure.
I don't know. Ask him. |
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I've had to remove ZeroNet packaging support from my third-party Gentoo overlay, as ZeroNet now depends on an obsolete CPython version (3.7) and obsolete Python dependencies (e.g., merkletree, pysha3). Without significant internal refactoring in the ZeroNet codebase itself, ZeroNet is now basically impossible to support (and thus use) in the modern era. Is anyone who is not me interested in maintaining a friendly fork? It'd be a shame to let the stupendous number of volunteer man-hours everyone's invested in ZeroNet unceremoniously die without so much as a whimper, but... that is the current trajectory we're on, isn't it? If anyone's interested, here's the bare-minimum low-hanging fruit that a prospective new maintainer needs to hit:
Thus dies another great thing, gentlemen. 😭 |
This commit removes both ZeroNet and the ZeroNet dependencies
dev-python/{merkletools,pysha3}, due to lack of CPython >= 3.8 support.
See also HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet#2749.
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@leycec |
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@rllola: Yes! Yes! That would be a stunning resurrection for a nearly-dead codebase that (for one all-too brief moment in time) was the world's funnest and funniest darknet. That said, I'm concerned that @HelloZeroNet won't merge your well-written PRs even if you submit them. @HelloZeroNet hasn't been active on GitHub for over four months and now refuses to publicly communicate with anyone – which is fair enough, I suppose. He never had any obligation to do any of this. I'm grateful for everything he already did, which is more than most (including me) do in a lifetime. Thus my polite recommendation for a friendly fork. Since @HelloZeroNet is no longer here, we'll have to do this ourselves. Of course, that's more volunteer commitment than most are willing to chew. Of course, there's probably no other way to meaningfully restore ZeroNet. By "we," I mean you. If anything substantial happens, please ping me again from the relevant PR or friendly fork. I'd really love to restore Gentoo support for ZeroNet. 🏩 |
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As much as possible I would like to avoid doing a fork. Let's propose the PRs on the current repo. I also have one PR to work on for .bit domain name resolution. We will see from there. |
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That's fair enough. I fully support your optimistic sentiments – especially because we can just merge your PRs onto a friendly fork if @HelloZeroNet stays out to lunch. 👍 |
Considering the PRs on this repo that are translation improvements or other simple changes that aren't being merged at all, and even older PRs that were never merged or closed at all, I kind of agree with @leycec that unless Nofish miraculously come back, presuming he's the only one with write access to the repo, none of the PRs you'll make are likely to be merged. A fork is a better idea -- however, we do have an issue there as well, most of the main important services of Zeronet are actually depending on Nofish-hosted stuff, namely the .bit DNS system relies on presumably a Namecoin core on a device that Nofish either owns or rents. Similarly, the zeroid system has a serverside component that is also not provided in code in any of Nofish's git repos, meaning that the current main id system could die at any point with no warning. Of course, there is the alternative of using the KxoID system, but I believe most of the people who can support it are likely never or rarely ever online and it requires extra plugins which makes it difficult to render user-friendly enough for the community to keep getting influx of newcomers and not just straight up die off whenever Nofish's services die. Honestly speaking, if Nofish doesn't come back, it's probably time to fork or make a different implementation or something. |
ugh
ugh ugh We now see the problem inherent in centralized control of a service previously marketed as decentralized. 😩 |
It is, as far as I know, possible to replace the Namecoin core with your own using the disabled ZeronameLocal plugins in the zeronet/plugins folder, so it's not as big of a deal for that, although that implies you wanting to lose a fuckton of hdd space and some cpu power to waste on a basically dead altcoin. I believe there's an issue around here somewhere of someone trying to replace or add other DNS systems, such as regular DNS + Namecoin + Ethereum-based DNS + other alternative DNS sources, but it didn't quite take off since the plan was for Nofish to include them into the Zeronet base package so that we wouldn't be relying one one single DNS method. Either way, it's not that important a feature, since technically speaking, so long as you use [zeronetinstanceip:43110]/bitcoin_address_of_the_site, it'll work. Although, I'm probably not the first to complain that forcing every site on a single domain name, and only differentiate between them using a random bitcoin address is not quite a good plan for a alternative to the clearnet. Usually, the plan is also to provide a similar system to the clearnet, but with better security, privacy, decentralization and stuff like that.
Yup, this is honestly the biggest problem, it's kinda based around the first (shitty) solution to the problem of how to identify people who visit your site when they have to post shit, without them creating an account, and with them actually owning their data, not you. It solves the problem of ensuring zeroid's can't collide. However, it fails to account for the actual solution it's meant to integrate with, which is to say that it needs to be decentralized, and ideally with no specific authority. This solution is centralized. Of course, there is a decentralized solution that many people copied (me included), which is iirc a site that just gives you whatever id you want without checking for collisions, so impersonations could occur since it doesn't actually let you see the public keys of who posted what, so 2 people called potato@thatshittysystem.id are basically the same person as far as any regular user that doesn't feel like digging and figuring out how to manually check for public keys. The final solution is the sort of dead KxoID, which isn't really that much better than either, it has it's own issues. It's essentially a 2-tier CA if you will, the 1st tiers were it's creator and some friends after he left, the second tiers were people the 1st tier trusted somewhat. Ideally, a rogue tier 2 could easily be removed by consensus, however thing is, if there's only 2 tier 2, it's a toss up who wins, and if there's only one, until a tier 1 comes back, he can basically do whatever he wants, which isn't quite what was planned. That leads to the unfortunate issue that with so few people holding these key nodes and staying online, the whole thing kinda falls apart. In other words, we'd also need a new better solution in this issue as well, considering none of the current solutions are good enough. |
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Probably dead project. Move over to webtorrent |
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...webtorrent isn't a darknet. Webtorrent isn't even anonymized, which means that protocol publicly exposes IP addresses, which means @resession should step away from the keyboard. Seriously. Free-as-in-beer anonymized torrenting was never even the principal use case for ZeroNet; that's why I2P exists. If you want free-as-in-beer anonymized torrenting, just use I2P. The main use cases for ZeroNet were:
Tamas Kocsis, you were once amazing. 😭 |
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IPFS, ZeroNet, Web torrent, a serious mistake that developers make regularly! In single user sites are not the full content seeded and downloaded so the content slowly becomes inaccessible. This is the case with ZeroNet are the large files! The program dows not finish large files download when the user close the browser on ZeroNet. The program not seed the content when the mashine are running see IPFS and web torrent. The program delete the file and not seed when the program are closed see web torrent, the user can download the file but do not seed see IPFS using with web access. The program does not running at system startup and not seed the content. These are serious mistakes which completely prevent that to a P2P system. „A” user seed the file and „B” download the complete file, and When „A” uses goes offline „B” keep it seed the full content. And when comes a „C” user than have 3 user who seed the full content. If A, B, C user not get the full content, and not seed when the computer are running, then the system will not work. If „B” and „C” user download only parts of the content, „D” and „E” users can not get the full file if the original owner „A” not seed anymore the file. And with the exception of normal torrenting ZeroNet, IPFS, web torrent, Freenet, the engineering concept is flawed, and conflicts with the proper functioning of the protocol. And until this simple principle not prevails, the whole system will not work. Large files will be inaccessible on this network. New users will see that almost no larger or opcional files can be downloaded. |
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See torrenting was never the point of ZeroNet. The point of ZeroNet was (A) genuinely free web-hosting and (B) genuinely free speech. That's it. Anyway. With @HelloZeroNet out to lunch (or worse), all of this moot. @Kusoneko – a fellow Canadian and moe fan, I can't help but notice – had the only sensible insights here. But no one has the time or interest to do anything about it. So it goes! |
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@leycec Regarding the Namecoin issue that has been mentioned, you can indeed use ZeronameLocal to connect to a Namecoin node or electrum-nmc. The advantage with electrum-nmc is that it implements the SPV protocol and will save you some disk space and bandwith. The idea is to have electrum-nmc shipped in the plugins and used by default at start so you won't rely on someone else node to resolve .bit domain name. Namecoin is funded and actively maintained. I worked on this in the past. The ZeronameLocal plugin should (famous last word) still work but I guess it is not well documented. Let me know if you have any issue using it and question. I would be happy to help 😄 |
The fate of any torrent, when interest goes away. |
Maidsafe, Storj, Lbry project use a chunk storage technology where the users store multiple copy chunks from the files what keep online free all content 24/7 unlimited time. BitTorrent pay you when you seed files, and you pay if you download files. Cryptocurrency are the future. Combination the 2 storage technology are solve all major problem. Plus creating content and file storage will be a business where all creators, and who give disk space are earn money. Without 24/7 online files and fast download, unlimited storage time, speed the free uncensored system (hosting) are not working. The technology is now available and working, just need to be integrated into the system. In such a solution, the are a long-term future what follow the most popular and important trends. And the widespread spread of this project most effective method. The solution would be a competitive alternative from clearnet hosting. Using bridges like IPFS doing with clearnet access (where google and normal browsers can search ind index, find zites) a free paid hosting clearnet alternative would be. This would require a simple smart solution where large files like video files are accessible when the user download the program, and this point help seed the files and the zite too. The greatest demand for these things is widely. Successful competing projects follow these trends. The solution could fund so that all content producers can make money with content on a regular basis if X fix money/fileshize goes to the creators when a user download the content. And the user get this money back if he correctly seed the files on the network, or helping another way the network working. The secret of the most successful platforms like YouTube, that content producers make money with their work. |
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Nofish is Satoshi Nakamoto Either way, I think we need an incentive token, like on Oxen. The transaction tax could be distributed to developers and "projects" that get the most votes ... or whatever. |
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I just want to encourage you all and tell you that nofish is still alive and has plans with ZeroNet and will work on them later, maybe more so after summer. |
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maybe a Gitcoin bounty can help to get this project rolling again... forked or otherwise.... cheers and limitless peace. https://gitcoin.co/ now someone should maybe create a Gitcoin alternative on SmartBCH. I would love to see Zeronet moving forward... and also with a Chrome/Brave/Firefox plugin...... .bit decentralized domain names.... |
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Please understand Zeronet is obsolete now.
…------ Original Message ------
From: "Michael Ten" ***@***.***>
To: "HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet" ***@***.***>
Cc: "EQN-GROUP" ***@***.***>; "Manual"
***@***.***>
Sent: 12/09/2021 01:12:07
Subject: Re: [HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet] Where did the ZeroNet creator go?
(#2749)
maybe a Gitcoin bounty can help to get this project rolling again...
forked or otherwise....
cheers and limitless peace. https://gitcoin.co/
now someone should maybe create a Gitcoin alternative on SmartBCH. I
would love to see Zeronet moving forward... and also with a
Chrome/Brave/Firefox plugin......
.bit
decentralized domain names....
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Obsolete means it has been replaced by something better: what is it? |
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there are many like tor, IPFS, dat protocol , freenet and many.
these decentralised web protocols are not perfect and in beta stage, not
many users.
…------ Original Message ------
From: "emilie" ***@***.***>
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Sent: 14/11/2021 22:20:05
Subject: Re: [HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet] Where did the ZeroNet creator go?
(#2749)
Obsolete means it has been replaced by something better: what is it?
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@imachug @ALL please check this topic to create fork? @geekless and @canewsin created 2 forks maybe good to have 1 project with multiple developers.. |
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@ALL @TwinLizzie has an active fork at https://github.com/TwinLizzie/ZeroNet. And there's another at https://github.com/zeronet-conservancy/zeronet-conservancy/ which I will avoid because it looks like it's folllowing a surefire recipe to bifurcate and stall development on a project.zeronet-conservancy#34 |
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I see that fork is forked from ZeroNetX. What is the difference? |
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@avion540 unfortunately the diffs are extremely hard to read because of different |
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@TwinLizzie doesn't maintain a changelog of https://github.com/TwinLizzie/ZeroNet and nor does @canewsin of https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet It would be nice if forks maintained a seperate changelog of the changes they make. @geekless put a detailed one in https://github.com/zeronet-enhanced/ZeroNet/tree/massive-rework/ZNE-ChangeLog . @TwinLizzie why did you turn off the ability to open issues on your fork? |
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Does anyone have write access to https://zeronet.io/ or is it controlled only by Tamas? It looks like the executables it points to are vulnerable to RCE. |
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I forked it in order to create a stable quick install git clone package. Keep it as simple as the original, while cherry-picking good commits, and avoiding buggy updates. There's not a lot of point to ZeroNet development right now as the userbase just isn't there anymore. I run a proxy as a video sharing platform and that's basically my focus. It'll most likely just end up being a basis for an offline intranet I plan on building. A toolkit that will allow you to clone clearnet websites, and then store them for offline viewing on high capacity hard drives. People will always prefer mainstream social media platforms due to the vastness of their content - and it's already too late to create alternatives. There's about as many 'decentralized internets' as there are YouTube channels. |
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I found this video from 2018 on the internet https://www.ted.com/talks/tamas_kocsis_the_case_for_a_decentralized_internet which is still on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U51MSK6nSQE Curious thing to me is that it's not a real Ted talk, which are in front of an audience. Does anyone has write access to zeronet.io ? What happens if the binaries it points to (on github/HelloZeroNet) have a vulnerability? |
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@TwinLizzie you didn't answer why you turned off the ability to open issues on your fork? For example, your fork is vulnerable to RCE : https://github.com/zeronet-enhanced/ZeroNet/issues/12 ( Have you looked at IPFS for storng offline content. maybe with storj backup? ) |
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@TwinLizzie that still doesn't explain why you turned off issues on your fork. Which for example turns off the ability to give you feedback that I think your fork is vulnerable to an RCE = https://github.com/zeronet-enhanced/ZeroNet/issues/12 If you are building something like NGnoidTV for others to use, you might want to choose a more secure base, like IPFS or toxfs. |
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I think the successor of ZeroNet can be the ZeroNetX from @canewsin, it seems very complete. |
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Difference ?
De : Ribbon
Envoyé le :vendredi 10 février 2023 02:03
À : HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet
Cc : emilie; Comment
Objet :Re: [HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet] Where did the ZeroNet creator go? (#2749)
I think the successor of ZeroNet can be the ZeroNetX from @canewsin, it seems very complete.
https://github.com/ZeroNetX/ZeroNet
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I am the only one who cares about this question or not.
I am afraid that he was imprisoned or killed, let at least someone who knows something about him write.
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