gender element, attributes, modifications of sex and gender for #2189 and #2190 #2299

ebeshero · 2022-05-22T17:57:49Z

No description provided.

HelenaSabel · 2022-05-25T06:52:46Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/BIB-Bibliography.xml

-          7</biblScope>, <biblScope unit="pp">p.121</biblScope>.</bibl>
+          Sorcerer's Stone</title>, <pubPlace>New York</pubPlace>: <publisher>Scholastic, Inc.</publisher> (<date>1999</date>), <biblScope unit="chap">chapter
+          7</biblScope>, <biblScope unit="pp">p. 121</biblScope>.</bibl>
+      <bibl xml:id="rubin-NDPERSEpc"><author>Rubin, Gayle</author>, <title level="a">The Traffic in Women: 


Should this work be cited in the bibliography related to the examples, or isn‘t it better within the list of “Works Cited Elsewhere in the Text of these Guidelines”?

@HelenaSabel Oh, thank you! I'll move it to the appropriate list.

HelenaSabel

I left a couple of comments that could be addressed before merging, but other than that the PR looks great!

HelenaSabel · 2022-05-25T07:06:56Z

P5/Source/Specs/sex.xml

-    or project-internal taxonomies for consistency, and should not be used where that is
-    inappropriate or unhelpful. The content of the element may be used to describe
-    the intended concept in more detail, using plain text. </p>
+  <remarks versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">


I think the <exemplum> in French could have been kept just by replacing the “2” with a “F”. For the one in Taiwanese Mandarin, I think the same change could be made (just like you did with in the case of the examples of <person>).

Thanks! I'm restoring those exempla.

sydb

Overall excellent.
One serious error and several suggested wording tweaks, and I think it is ready to go.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:23:25Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/ND-NamesDates.xml

@@ -1035,8 +1034,7 @@ target="#CONA"/>).  The tag -->The
          <!-- socecstatus has its own @code and @scheme attributes which need
 exemplifying here too? -->
        </p>
-        <p>The meanings of concepts such as sex, nationality, or age are highly culturally-dependent, and the encoder should take
-          particular care to be explicit about any assumptions underlying their usage of them. For example, when recording
+        <p>Encoders should take particular care to be explicit about culturally determined concepts such as sex/gender system, nationality, ethnicity, or age that influence their markup. For example, when recording


What is a “sex/gender system”? Is it a culturally determined concept? Either way I hate using a slash like that. I think I would prefer to just see “sex, gender, nationality, ethnicity, or age”.

I believe this is in reference to Gayle Rubin's influential theory of "sex/gender systems". Gayle Rubin, "The Traffic in Women: Notes on the ‘Political Economy’ of Sex,” Toward an Anthropology of Women, ed. Rayna R. Reiter (New York: Monthly Review Press, 1975) 157-210.
Perhaps there should be a reference here so that it's clear that we are borrowing a term

I've modified the wording a little and added a note with reference to Gayle Rubin.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:27:26Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/ND-NamesDates.xml

-          <ptr target="http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c036266_ISO_IEC_5218_2004(E_F).zip"/> (in which
-            <val>0</val> indicates unknown; <val>1</val> indicates male; <val>2</val> indicates female; and <val>9</val> indicates
-          not applicable, although the ISO standard is widely considered inadequate). <egXML
+          <p>The <gi>sex</gi> and <gi>gender</gi> elements carry a <att>value</att> attribute to give values from a project-internal taxonomy, or an


I’m thinking The <gi>sex</gi> and <gi>gender</gi> elements each carry a <att>value</att> attribute …, i.e. inserting “each” so the conjunction on the L can be properly treated as singular on the R.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:29:05Z

P5/Source/Specs/gender.xml

+      <desc versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">supplies a coded value for gender identity</desc>
+      <datatype minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="unbounded"><dataRef key="teidata.gender"/></datatype>
+      <remarks versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">
+        <p>Values for this attribute may be locally defined by a project or according to an external standard.</p>


“Values for this attribute may be taken from an external standard or locally defined by a project”.
Or the wording in comment below.

Note that the syntax isn't parallel--revise.

Trying this: "Values for this attribute may be locally defined by a project, or they may refer to an external standard."

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:30:45Z

P5/Source/Specs/person.xml

-          cf. CETH's <title>Recommendations for Inclusive Data Collection of Trans People</title>
-               <ptr target="http://transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=lib-data-collection"/>.</p>
+      <remarks versionDate="2022-05-18" xml:lang="en">
+        <p>Values for this attribute may be locally defined by a project or according to an external standard.</p>


“Values for this attribute may be locally defined by a project, or may refer to an external standard.”
Or the wording in comment above.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:32:12Z

P5/Source/Specs/persona.xml

+      <desc versionDate="2022-05-18" xml:lang="en">specifies the gender of the persona.</desc>
+      <datatype minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="unbounded"><dataRef key="teidata.gender"/></datatype>
+      <remarks versionDate="2022-05-18" xml:lang="en">
+        <p>Values for this attribute may be locally defined by a project or according to an external standard.</p>


See previous 2 comments.

Try this wording instead--throughout.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:32:51Z

P5/Source/Specs/sex.xml

@@ -8,15 +8,15 @@ $Id$
 -->
 <?xml-model href="https://jenkins.tei-c.org/job/TEIP5-dev/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/P5/release/xml/tei/odd/p5.nvdl" type="application/xml" schematypens="http://purl.oclc.org/dsdl/nvdl/ns/structure/1.0"?>
 <elementSpec xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" module="namesdates" ident="sex">
-  <gloss xml:lang="en" versionDate="2009-03-19">sex</gloss>
+  <gloss xml:lang="en" versionDate="2022-05-10">sex</gloss>


Is this on purpose?

Probably not since there is no chance to the gloss. Reverted.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:34:46Z

P5/Source/Specs/teidata.gender.xml

+    <dataRef key="teidata.enumerated"/>
+  </content>
+  <remarks versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">
+    <p>Values for attributes using this datatype may be locally defined by a project or according


See previous on this phrasing.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:35:16Z

P5/Source/Specs/teidata.gender.xml

+  <remarks versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">
+    <p>Values for attributes using this datatype may be locally defined by a project or according
+      to an external standard.</p>
+    <p>Values for this datatype may not be used to encode morphological gender (cf. <gi>gen</gi>,


I would change “may” to “should”.

sydb · 2022-07-08T02:35:42Z

P5/Source/Specs/teidata.sex.xml

+    <dataRef key="teidata.enumerated"/>
+  </content>
+  <remarks versionDate="2022-05-03" xml:lang="en">
+    <p>Values for attributes using this datatype may be locally defined by a project or according 


sydb · 2022-07-08T02:56:04Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/ST-Infrastructure.xml

@@ -1370,6 +1371,7 @@ entities in the XML DTD fragments.--></p>
        values). In this latter case, the datatype will not be <ident type="datatype">teidata.enumerated</ident>, but an explicit list of the possible values.</p>
      <specGrp xmlns:rng="http://relaxng.org/ns/structure/1.0" xml:id="DTYPES-4" n="Coded value datatypes">
        <xi:include href="../../Specs/teidata.word.xml"/>
+        <xi:include href="../../Specs/teidata.gender.xml"/>


THIS IS AN ERROR
The definitions of teidata.gender and teidata.sex are now teidata.enumerated; therefore they need to be included after teidata.enumerated is. (Lest DTDs break.)

Should be fixed in 3dc6914

ebeshero · 2022-07-08T14:40:03Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/ND-NamesDates.xml

-        will obviously change over time, hair colour for example, none, in principle—not even sex—is immutable.</p>
-
-      <p><soCalled>States</soCalled> include, for example, marital status, place of residence and position or occupation. Such
+        or action and can be either physical, such as hair and eye colour, or cultural, such as ethnicity, caste, or faith.


add a semicolon between "colour; or cultural"

… to avoid DTD issues.

…x, race

ebeshero · 2022-08-28T22:21:39Z

@sydb We've made several changes in response to your review and we may now be ready to merge this in to dev (you're the one we assigned for this!)
NOTE: I've added some short but significant revisions to our discussion of characteristics/traits in the ND chapter while working on the PR this weekend, mainly to revise some strange things and provide a little more commentary specific the challenges we face as text encoders of documents from times and places not our own. I hope it's all good!

sydb

I think this is pretty close to ready to merge.

sydb · 2022-08-30T02:33:28Z

P5/Source/Specs/gender.xml

+    <macroRef key="macro.phraseSeq"/>
+  </content>
+  <attList>
+    <attDef ident="type" usage="opt" mode="change">


A bit confused — what is the point of lines 26–30? Since this is a member of att.typed it already has a @type attribute that is teidata.enumerated without a value list.

Indeed this is an error due to using the specs of <sex> as a template. In <sex> there was the sample values “explicit” and “implicit”, and indeed, if we are not going to suggest any values for @type, this should be deleted.

Thanks! Fixed with 1bd0f6a

sydb · 2022-08-30T02:39:45Z

P5/Source/Specs/teidata.gender.xml

+  <remarks versionDate="2022-08-27" xml:lang="en">
+    <p>Values for attributes using this datatype may be defined locally by a project, or they may refer to an external standard.</p>
+    <p>Values for this datatype should not be used to encode morphological gender (cf. <gi>gen</gi>,
+        <att>msd</att> as defined in att.linguistic, and <ptr target="#DITPFO"/>).</p>


Should be

<ident type="class">att.linguistic</ident>

(As much as I do not like that encoding (because I think it is a name, not an identifier), it is what we use.)

Fixed with 1bd0f6a

martinascholger

Looks great! I agree with @sydb's comments.

martinascholger · 2022-08-30T10:05:06Z

P5/Source/Guidelines/en/ND-NamesDates.xml

-        and skull measurements, is now recognized as a social construct.</p>
+        interpreted based on the social hierarchies of a time and place. Also the division of humanity into different <soCalled>races</soCalled>,
+        formalized in the nineteenth century to organize a hierarchy of humanity on the basis of physical characteristics such as skin colour, hair type,
+        and skull measurements, is now recognized as a colonial social construct. When that construct defined individuals' identities beyond their volition, 


I wonder if there should be a bibiographical reference

@martinascholger There is so much we could cite, and it tends to be concentrated on specific colonized parts of the world. Looking for something quite general to cite, I wonder if this reference would work for the audience of the Guidelines? https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/reproduction/colonialism-and-the-emergence-of-racial-theories/122DB95AC72DCB6CCDF6C7E034EFEC72

@martinascholger I've added a citation now with this commit: d963460

Thanks for the suggestion! How does that look to you?

HelenaSabel

We need to delete the definition of @type in both <gender> and <sex> since we no longer suggest sample values.

HelenaSabel · 2022-09-04T09:47:19Z

P5/Source/Specs/gender.xml

+    <attDef ident="type" usage="opt" mode="change">
+      <datatype>
+        <dataRef key="teidata.enumerated"/>
+      </datatype>
+    </attDef>


Suggested change

<attDef ident="type" usage="opt" mode="change">

<datatype>

<dataRef key="teidata.enumerated"/>

</datatype>

</attDef>

Fixed with 1bd0f6a

HelenaSabel · 2022-09-04T09:54:22Z

P5/Source/Specs/sex.xml

@@ -32,74 +32,55 @@ $Id$
      <datatype>


Code from lines 31-35 should be deleted if no sample values are suggested.

Fixed with 1bd0f6a

ebeshero · 2022-09-05T21:19:43Z

@martinascholger @sydb I think we're now up-to-date with responding to all the revision requests. Are we ready to merge this branch to dev?

sydb · 2022-09-06T02:57:45Z

I am not remotely convinced this is perfect. I reasonably convinced it is good enough to be part of the Guidelines proper, and be tweaked in dev as needed.

sydb · 2022-09-06T02:58:40Z

BTW —

Passed all tests in my local Docker environment.
I used a squash-and-merge, so we may not want to delete the branch for a bit.

raffazizzi and others added 17 commits May 22, 2022 13:53

Working on gender-related tickets #2189 and #2190

ee5d953

Undoing to rebase the branch: Re-generated spec lists.

1118988

updated french remarks on sex element and attribute

223a655

rephrasing caution about culturally determined markup re #2189, #2190

4abb619

small rephrase on culturally-determined encoding re #2189, #2190

1ce276e

rephrasing to simplify caution about culturally determined markup re #…

b18ad1a

…2189, #2190

updating ddescription of sex

1a13d09

updated descriptions of sex attribute

28efd3c

revised the description of the gender attribute

a4cd12b

Actually include new 'gender' element in the Guidelines.

638b681

Actually include new 'teidata.gender' datatype in the Guidelines.

63ed30d

small correction to teidata.gender remarks

b3e05d5

changing values to teidata.enumerated and other small revisions

68c9748

Gayle Rubin entry in Bib, spot correction to previous entry

aeb4a82

adding vcard standard to bib with exempla

b8163a2

Re-generated spec lists.

6ff6066

Re-generated spec lists.

4733ccf

ebeshero requested review from martinascholger, HelenaSabel and hcayless May 22, 2022 18:01

ebeshero assigned sydb May 22, 2022

ebeshero requested a review from raffazizzi May 22, 2022 18:04

raffazizzi approved these changes May 24, 2022

View reviewed changes

HelenaSabel reviewed May 25, 2022

View reviewed changes

HelenaSabel approved these changes May 25, 2022

View reviewed changes

ebeshero and others added 3 commits May 31, 2022 22:12

bib and exempla revisions for #2189 and #2190

368b192

Merge branch 'dev' into gender

2597af1

Re-generated spec lists.

ce2a18c

sydb requested changes Jul 8, 2022

View reviewed changes

Merge branch 'dev' into gender

32f18dd

ebeshero commented Jul 8, 2022

View reviewed changes

raffazizzi and others added 14 commits August 26, 2022 16:11

Moved inclusion of sex/gender datatype specs after teidata.enumerated…

3dc6914

… to avoid DTD issues.

reverted date

788ea73

Re-generated spec lists.

892e5cf

Merge branch 'dev' into gender

e8ea6ee

restoring new version

19cb491

updated modal verb

bab6970

Re-generated spec lists.

364b224

adding Rubin reference

02a8999

wording revisions to specs

de82534

revised remarks for teidata.sex

d9e04cf

updated dates on remarks in Specs

1c5caa8

Re-generated spec lists.

2b7849a

revised language on interpretations of characteristics for gender, se…

983dd93

…x, race

small grammatical revision

8ca2826

ebeshero added 2 commits August 28, 2022 18:36

small revision for spacing in ND

dcf15b6

spot wording revision

7a099fb

sydb requested changes Aug 30, 2022

View reviewed changes

martinascholger approved these changes Aug 30, 2022

View reviewed changes

HelenaSabel requested changes Sep 4, 2022

View reviewed changes

ebeshero force-pushed the gender branch from ae7a4e7 to 821a656 Compare September 5, 2022 15:56

removing type attribute customizations from sex and gender specs

1bd0f6a

ebeshero force-pushed the gender branch from 821a656 to 1bd0f6a Compare September 5, 2022 15:57

adding footnote

d963460

sydb merged commit a581874 into dev Sep 6, 2022

sydb deleted the gender branch September 11, 2022 13:30

gender element, attributes, modifications of sex and gender for #2189 and #2190 #2299

gender element, attributes, modifications of sex and gender for #2189 and #2190 #2299

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ebeshero commented Sep 5, 2022

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sydb commented Sep 6, 2022

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