Fix: Worker Dies First Time Trying To Rebuild Scud Storm

[commy2]

• fix Anthrax poison kills first Worker in GLA SCUD Storm Rebuild #757
• fix Demo GLA Scud Storm rebuilds around 20 seconds quicker than all other SCUD Storms #758

1.04: First Worker dies in poison cloud

Patch: Worker waits until poison cloud is gone

This has one drawback. If the new first Worker is killed, it will take 40 seconds instead of 20 seconds for another one to come out. Is this fine?

[commy2]

@ Exile
Summary of the issue is correct, however, making the Worker respawn after 40 seconds would mean that if the first one is killed anyway, the next one would also be delayed by 20 more seconds (40 total). It would also be weird that just for this one building and faction, the Worker would be slower to arrive.

It is correct that a Worker could be ordered to manually rebuild the hole, which means in 1.04 any Scud Storm could be rebuild in ~151 seconds.

Total effective from hole to finished rebuild time in current main branch and without such tricks is 160 seconds for non-Demo and 140 seconds for Demo. The difference is not so big and SWs are rarely destroyed just to the hole and then left alone, so I propose just calling this a loss. The scenario is just too rare to worry and make strange exceptions/work-arounds about it.

Edit: fixed numbers

[xezon]

I would prefer all SCUD Storms to repair consistently and without glitches.

I agree with commy2 that this is overall rare occurence. We do not need to overthink this. It will be non consequential for the vast majority of matches. And who is to say that the original behaviour is really optimal?

I suggest comparing SCUD Storm build and rebuild times with the other Superweapons to get an overview.

[ZekeDlyoung]

Hmmm, is it possible to fire a clearing weapon before/when the worker comes out? That way the toxin field will be cleared when the hole is left and the worker comes out, but if the Scud Storm is destroyed completely the toxin field will stay there for its full lifetime.

The GLA might be crazy and uncaring, but I imagine even they wouldn't want to waste Workers if they can help it

[xezon]

Is this correct?

Time in seconds.

Object	Build Time	Repair Time	Hole Repair Time
Original USA Particle	60	60 max
Original China Nuke	60	60 max
Original GLA SCUD	120	120 max	160
Patched Demo GLA SCUD	120	120 max	140

[ZekeDlyoung]

Or perhaps we can change it so that the toxin puddle is created after the hole is destroyed and not just when the Scud Storm is

[ImTimK]

@commy2

making the Worker respawn after 40 seconds would mean that if the first one is killed anyway, the next one would also be delayed by 20 more seconds (40 total). It would also be weird that just for this one building and faction, the Worker would be slower to arrive.

Thought the 40 second proposal would be for all factions because it would fix the dying worker aswell,
then only downside will be the situation where the worker gets killed right? Hence my argument that a player can manually order faster.

I just read there's a second downside? Where the hole has a lower HP before the worker spawns? What are the exact values?

[xezon]

If my time values in above table are correct, then I do not think we need to worry about having all SCUD Storm repair 20 seconds quicker from Hole. It still takes 2 minutes and 20 seconds. This is long time.

[commy2]

Table is correct +/- a few seconds due to Worker movement and death randomness.

[xezon]

Maybe we can agree on 30 seconds spawn time for SCUD Storm worker + Toxin Puddle disappear before 30 seconds?

[ImTimK]

If my time values in above table are correct, then I do not think we need to worry about having all SCUD Storm repair 20 seconds quicker from Hole. It still takes 2 minutes and 20 seconds. This is long time.

How to achieve this? Faster decaying Toxins?

What about this?

• Toxins 25seconds
• workers 30seconds.

Opposed to 1.04 all Scuds start rebuilding 10 seconds sooner. Killing the worker now gives enemy an extra 10 seconds to kill the hole while it's weak (basically buying back those 10 seconds).

[xezon]

Sounds fair to me.

[commy2]

Why would the Workers respawn slower on just this building? Why would the toxin cloud disappear faster just here? This seems very contrived for a non issue.

[ImTimK]

Why would the Workers respawn slower on just this building? Why would the toxin cloud disappear faster just here? This seems very contrived for a non issue.

Building Scudstorm is big project, workers need mental prep.

It's honestly really about balance in this case, halving the timeframe for hole mode can make quite a difference. 20 seconds instead of the effectively 40 seconds in 1.04 isn't a whole lot of time, at all. The total rebuild time isn't really the most relevant factor in actual games.

[xezon]

Why would the Workers respawn slower on just this building? Why would the toxin cloud disappear faster just here? This seems very contrived for a non issue.

I am confused. The issue is that first worker dies in toxin puddle on Hole rebuild and Demo SCUD Storm has 20 seconds better rebuild time. Why would the current state be preferable over the above suggestion?

[Jundiyy]

Just randomly came to me just now, but it would naturally make sense if Demo Scud was built 20s faster. You can simply see there are no toxins, why would there be a delay. Whilst it does help Demo over others, it also makes sense if we don't see any toxins.

[xezon]

But why should only Demo General have this benefit over other GLA factions? It already has the best Superweapon damage...

[Jundiyy]

I totally understand that, all I'm saying is that it makes sense when you look at it. If there are no toxins, then they are safe to rebuild.

What about, simple solution. Toxins clear after 20s and Worker builds at 20s?

[xezon]

I am fine with that. I am also fine with rebuild after 30 seconds.

[ImTimK]

No from me to reduce all Scuds to 20 seconds, like I said, it's an important timeframe for enemies to try and finish the hole. The rebuild time after that doesn't matter too much.

It's a huge buff from effectively 40 seconds, but I'm willing to settle on 30 seconds, otherwise I think it should be kept at 40 seconds (make this the respawn time).

[Jundiyy]

Well I think 30s is fair as well.
In original ZH, Scud repairs to 2%, so it gets some extra hp.
With a 30s delay, it means, for them 10 seconds, it won't have that hp.

This is still 10s faster than ZH but now with a small cost. So yea, 30s seems fair.

[xezon]

I can't believe we agreed on something in one session.

[Jundiyy]

Lol haha, A team!