forms that aren't being analysed #11
Comments
I think it's not form of буол word. I found Буолкалах өрүc in Wikipedia - it's name of the river. |
This form is described in Ubryatova's book on p. 331: "Наклоенение обычно совершаемого действия". барааччыбын барааччым суох and also: Мир эрдэ тураааччыбын - (Usually) I wake up early. Also there is nouns like: |
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What's the difference between the two negative versions of that? |
Ubryatova doesn't say anything about the difference (p. 332), maybe there is no difference except how they are produced? |
looks like dative case of word буолуохтаах. Ubryatova writes that вторичная причастная форма на -ыахтаах can decline. Examples: Онно барыахтаахпын мин кыайан өйдөөбөппүн - I can not understand my need to go there. Also she writes that -ыахтаах is formed from -ыах + -лаах (possession affix). Future tense of долженствовательное наклонение is formed using -ыахтаах: барыахтаахпын Ubryatova's book p. 330
I found only 3 occurrences in the Wikipedia corpus. And all 3 are names of persons: Гаврил-Баргыа 2 times and Антон-Баргыа. |
Might it be dative case of сыл + лар + лаах? It means some range of years like: 80-с сыллардаахха (80s), 1958-59 сыллардаахха (1958-59 years), etc. |
They are similar forms as суруйбут, оҥорбут but passive. |
Do all transitive verbs ending in р change р to һ for the passive? What about for the {I}{A}х form? |
Could you give a complete paradigm for a verb that ends in a consonant (e.g., бар)? |
Can this also be a verbal adjective and/or a verbal noun? E.g., барааччы харчы or something? |
What's the negative of these? |
Oh, according to sakhatyla.ru оҥоһулун and оҥорулун are both passive of оҥор and there are occurrences of both of them in Wikipedia corpus. But others seem not to change р to һ: |
It is complete paradigm of verb бар and then I realised that it appears to be also same for verb бараа. |
I think it cannot. |
барыа суохтаахпын |
Is there any difference in meaning or usage, or are they used completely interchangeably?
What about көһүн-/көстөр? Is that passive of көр-? (If so, maybe it's irregular / an exception.) |
Ah, okay, that helps a lot. Could you add the affirmative forms of a verb ending in иэ and/or ыа (e.g., сиэ/диэ, ыа) to |
Should it be сырыт instead of сылдьы? |
I think there is slight difference in meaning which is difficult for me to describe.
I think that passive of көр is көрүлүн. I am not sure about көһүн-/көстөр. |
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After discussion about көр-:
Also:
The н/лIн passive alternation can be covered using |
Currently passive of оҥоһун- is being generated as оҥостулун-. Is that wrong? |
I think that it should be "оҥоһулун". |
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But other forms have ст, right? E.g. оҥостор? |
Yes |
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Hm, that leaves an interesting pattern that I'm not sure what to do with. What about иһит, уһул, оҕус, тутун, үтүгүн, умун? What are the passive forms of those? |
I think: |
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Making this pattern work has made the following forms not analyse (from Wikipedia corpus):
@varie, could you add these forms to passives.yaml (or mention here if they're not passives) and check the forms in there already? |
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Fix phonology for умнулун/умнуллубат (@jonorthwash). |
@varie, could you provide some information on each of these forms? They're coming up as common unanalysed forms.
буолкалахбуолуохтааҕынүөскүүрсыллардааххасуруллубутMost of them look like inflected forms of stems we have in the transducer, but they could also be derived forms. Either way, let's look at each one carefully and think about how to add to the transducer.
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