P2857 P2596 Critique

[brycelelbach]

P2857R0 P2596 Critique (Matthew Bentley)

[brycelelbach]

Related to P0447 (#328) and P2596 (#1256).

[inbal2l]

2023-02-07 15:30 to 17:30 Issaquah Library Evolution Meeting

Discussed on Issaquah alongside other papers (Full Minutes)
See also: #1256

P0447R21: Introduction of std::hive to the standard library
P2596R0: Improve std::hive::reshape
P2857R0: Rebuttal to P2596

Champion: Guy Davidson (P0447, P2857) & Patrice Roy (P2596)

Chair: Ben Craig

Minute Taker: Steve Downey

Start: 2023-02-07 15:45 UTC-8

Does this paper have:

• Examples? Yes
• Field experience? Yes
  • Implementation experience? Yes
  • Usage experience? Yes
  • Deployment experience? Yes
• Performance considerations? Yes
• Discussion of prior art? Yes
• Changes Library Evolution previously requested? Yes
• Wording? Yes
• Breaking changes? No
• Feature test macro? Yes
• Freestanding? No
• Format and/or iostream support? No

End: 17:10

Summary

We started with covering the revisions made to the paper. We then discussed P2596, which proposes modifications to std::hive. We looked at that wording, then heard a rebuttal of P2596. There were continued questions about whether we should be spending time on std::hive.

While there is field usage and deployment experience, there were concerns that this paper isn't providing enough evidence of existing practice in the field.

POLL: We like P2596 "Improve std::hive::reshape" enough to go through the wording

Strongly Favor	Weakly Favor	Neutral	Weakly Against	Strongly Against
4	11	4	2	2

Attendance: 20 local, 12 remote

# of Authors: 1

Author Position: SF

Outcome: consensus

A: I think reshape is useful, but I don't have concrete arguments
SA: Not convinced we should spend more time on this at all

POLL: Spend more committee time on std::hive

Strongly Favor	Weakly Favor	Neutral	Weakly Against	Strongly Against
8	4	5	2	3

Attendance: 22 local, 11 remote

# of Authors: 2

Author Position: 2xSF?

Outcome: Not enough enough consensus to stop

POLL: Apply P2596 (Improve std::hive::reshape) to P0447R21 (Introduction of std::hive to the standard library) and return to LEWG

Strongly Favor	Weakly Favor	Neutral	Weakly Against	Strongly Against
2	3	8	4	3

Attendance: 27 local, 10 remote

# of Authors:

Author Position:

Outcome: No consensus to change. 1 meeting for rebuttal to the rebuttal

Next Steps

There wasn't a consensus to change the hive paper. We encourage the authors to work together to resolve the conflicts. The author of P2596 has one meeting to provide a rebuttal to the rebuttal before we attempt to move forward with P0447.