withdrawals outside the US, a.k.a. international payouts #126

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whit537 opened this Issue Jul 6, 2012 · 297 comments

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@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jul 6, 2012

Balanced will work for withdrawals to U.S. bank accounts, but not outside the U.S. What do we do here? Suggestions?

Current Status

  1. MassPay—As a stop-gap while we await the chance to prioritize implementing a more robust solution, we are offering automatic weekly payouts via PayPal. This is risky because PayPal is likely to freeze our account once we get on their radar. If you'd like to participate, email support@gittip.com with your Gittip username, PayPal email address, and the first eight digits of the API key from your Gittip profile page (to confirm your account). PayPal's fee is 2%, capped at $20.
  2. Balanced—Our automated payments provider, Balanced, is working to implement international ACH transfers (IAT). Please see their roadmap and voice your interest on this ticket. Balanced is shutting down, see #3245.
  3. Stripe—They've added payouts (à la Balanced), and are known to be working on expanding to the EU. See #3245.
  4. Trans-Pay—The ball is in our court to improve our KYC practices (via #2449?) and circle back. See #417.
  5. MangoPay—They're a European counter-part to Balanced. We would need a European legal entity and bank account. See #891.

Want to Help?

Give us a PR for multi-currency support. That's a pre-requisite no matter which direction we go.

@mitsuhiko

I'm starting to get the feeling the only real solution for international transfers is paypal. They however already burned open source projects in the past because paypal does not accept donations officially so it would make sense to get some clarification if paypal is acceptable for that.

@whit537 whit537 referenced this issue Jul 8, 2012
Closed

payin with dwolla #65

@RafaelReinehr

I'm also from Brazil and want to clarify this question. The objective of this "neomecenate" tool is do help develop a series of projects dedicated do common good. I suggest paypal.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 24, 2012

Here's the Balanced ticket for this:

balanced/balanced-api#23

@jdnavarro

Bitcoin could be a solution for this. If you don't want to deal directly in bitcoins, there are some merchant gateways that do the currency exchange between bitcoins and different currencies in the same transference. I don't think all currencies are supported and I don't know how reliable they are. BitPay looks like the most popular one, but there are more services listed in the bitcoin wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Shopping_Cart_Interfaces

@VictorBjelkholm

How about Stripe?
https://stripe.com/

@jezdez
jezdez commented Aug 28, 2012

Strip allows transfer to non-US accounts?

@VictorBjelkholm

@jezdez no, the company that receives the money need to be based in the US, although it accepts international payments. I supposed that it worked international but it didn't, sorry about that.

@softwaremechanic

I am all for the bitcoins idea. +1. Outside of it i don't really see any real solution. Paypal is one possibility, but not sure of their policies.

@VictorBjelkholm

Braintree(1) just expanded their list of supported countries. Might be worth checking up.

Supported countries:
the U.S., the U.K., Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Ireland, and Italy.

(1), https://www.braintreepayments.com/

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 31, 2012

Stripe, Braintree, and BitPay are non-starters because we're talking about paying out to people, and afaik those are services for paying money in to a single merchant.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 31, 2012

@RafaelReinehr The "neomecenate" concept is intriguing. I wish my Italian were better. Google Translate doesn't do the best job either.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 31, 2012

@RafaelReinehr I'm reluctant to go down the PayPal route because I'm afraid of getting burned by opaque APIs and policies. As mentioned on #63, if someone with strong PayPal experience wants to champion the implementation then step forward and let's put together your pull request. Otherwise I'm going to prioritize other matters for now, and keep encouraging Balanced to strike some non-US deals. ;-)

@kangasbros

Bitcoin would be otherwise godd (unfreezable & fairly easy to convert to other currencies), but the problem is converting the monies from credit card payments to bitcoins. This should be done by gittip operator.

I would love to donate some money with Bitcoin to developers, is this kind of feature planned?

@BladeMcCool

Gittip should allow donations in Bitcoin. Use bitpay to handle that aspect. Let recipients choose if they want to keep their received donations in BTC or have it autoconverted to USD. If they keep it in BTC then you just forward them their BTC. If they convert to USD then you jump through legacy bank system hoops as usual.

@sebicas
sebicas commented Sep 2, 2012

+1 For Bitcoin

@RafaelReinehr

The majority of people i know that could "fund me" do not have bitcoins. But they have credit cards. It would be wonderful if gittip could manage this transaction from CC to bitcoin.

@colindean
Contributor

Discussion about Bitcoin is best directed toward #14, where @gasteve, CTO of BitPay, has chimed in.

@maplesyrupghost

Bitcoin is definitely the most convenient, safest, and most logical method.

www.bitcointrading.com

@kangasbros

Honestly, bitcoin is not great for recurring payments. They are possible, not just that handy.

@jezdez
jezdez commented Sep 3, 2012

Maybe using Flattr as the infrastructure would be possible, https://twitter.com/gaiapunk/statuses/242536453140250624

@DanielWeigl

Also thumbs up for bitcoin. And if the CreditCard from BitInstant becomes reallity, it will be even really easy for non-Bitcoiners to accept Bitcoin, but spend them just like USD: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitinstants-debi-card-the-final-push-to-critical-mass/

@VictorBjelkholm

I would also love Bitcoins. And think of the people that doesn't use american dollars, add euroes in that case would be great.

@gasteve
gasteve commented Sep 3, 2012

Let me see if I can find one of our integration partners to take on this project. I personally have very little time available.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 8, 2012

Thanks, @gasteve! (I copied your comment to #14.)

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 8, 2012

Recap So Far

Okay, so here's the state of the options as I see them, sorted from least work for Gittip to most:

  1. Balanced - We are already integrated with them, so the easiest solution from Gittip's pov would be for Balanced to add support for non-US bank accounts. @matin, @mahmoudimus, @jkwade: Do you have any advice for us?
  2. PayPal - See #63. Needs a champion.
  3. BitPay - See #14. Needs a champion. @gasteve is paying attention. Need to solve the recurring issue.
  4. Flattr - See #284. We've started a conversation with them. I'm not sure yet how Flattr's revenue sharing program would interface with Gittip's open company model.
@tito
tito commented Sep 18, 2012

BrainTree is now open for international payment too: https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international - Do you think that could be a possibility too ?

@kangasbros

Accepting the payments worldwide is not the problem (I think that already works), the payouts are... I think that the only good solution to working international payouts is Bitcoin. Converting credit card-billed money to bitcoin is probably huge pain in the ass, but could be possible with some delay (like 1 month).

Payments to countries like India, Pakistan or Iran are never going to work using traditional payment instruments due to strict regulations. I would love to get open source developers from those countries on board.

@softwaremechanic

@kangasbros: am in. python programmer From India. just went through your github account. any specific ones you're planning to merge with bittip?
Gotta warn, new to bittip bitcoin apis though...

@kangasbros

The problem is credit card fraud (credit card payments = reversible, bitcoin payments = irreversible). I'm going to research this problem some more time before I can propose a solution.

@softwaremechanic

@kangasbros : I haven't researched thoroughly, but my understanding is that it is the whole point of bitcoin's anonymity. i.e: irreversibility and anonymity go together ideally. So it's rather a question of what gittip is risk stance is willing to adopt for anonymity. I would be happy if gittip adds a disclaimer about irreversibility of bitcoin transaction and get ahead with it. but i don't know whether that makes business/economic sense for them, i can understand if it doesn't. Can someone from gittip chime in?

@kangasbros

anandjeyahar: the benefit is getting the payouts to anyone, anywhere in the world. Open source developers anywhere can benefit from the donations. Currently gittip payouts work (to my understanding) only in US and canada, not for example even in Europe. This severely limits the benefits for gittip. For example, I'm personally mostly interested in donating to developers in 3rd world countries, since there the developers need the money much more than the developers in developed countries.

On the payment side, I don't see much benefits, since recurring payments with bitcoin are problematic.

@paddykontschak

@kangasbros commented
Currently gittip payouts work (to my understanding) only in US and canada, not for example even in Europe.

gittip payouts work only in the US. Not in Canada, not in Europe and not anywhere else in the world.

@VictorBjelkholm

@kangasbros "On the payment side, I don't see much benefits, since recurring payments with bitcoin are problematic."

Maybe you could offer Bitcoin single donation and credit card recurring payment (and also single donation). With BrainTree the payments could be made anywhere with credit cards and the cash out with Bitcoins for everyone.

@kangasbros

And BTW, bitcoins point isn't Anonymity - it can be properly used anonymously, but that is not the "default mode" so to speak. To me, bitcoin point is unblockable, global, no-barrier-of-entry payment & payout processing. But yeah, anonymity is why it gets adopted later, and the other benefits will follow later.

@ianb
ianb commented Sep 23, 2012

At Mozilla there was some research into this issue, with regards to the Mozilla Marketplace. Some of the issues are similar. One issue is that Mozilla didn't want to be an intermediary. That could mean in the US, for instance, that we'd have to submit 1099s for people who got a large enough payout. And who knows what it would be in other countries – paying people is fraught with local bureaucracy. PayPal made it possible for us to facilitate the transfer of money from a customer directly to the app developer. PayPal is still the one who actually "pays" the other person, and so they handle all the paperwork.

If you are curious, all the related code is in an open source repository (somewhere deep in https://github.com/mozilla/zamboni).

@maplesyrupghost

Bitcoin!

@lyndsysimon
Contributor

This makes more sense as a payout method than as a payment method, in terms
of ease of implementation.

Profitably,
Lyndsy Simon

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2.
On Sep 25, 2012 9:51 PM, "Richard Vialoux" notifications@github.com wrote:

Bitcoin!


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-8877381.

@tj
tj commented Sep 26, 2012

canada :(

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 27, 2012

+1 for Bitcoin via HN.

@markvdb
markvdb commented Oct 5, 2012

Totally batshit mad idea:

A low tech solution could be a SEPA enabled EUR denominated account in an EU country. There are many 100% free ones, for both incoming and outgoing payments. Filter out the ones with interesting internet banking APIs.

Farm out the outgoing payments administration work to volunteers. Respect donor and receiver privacy by cleverly using hashing to prepare batches of outgoing electronic payments.

Tada: free outgoing gittip payments within the European Free Trade Area!

If this sounds mad, that's probably because it is. But maybe, just maybe, this actually is a viable mechanism!

@d2s
d2s commented Oct 13, 2012

Not sure how viable it is, but SEPA payments could make things work for many inside EU area. Still, there are various problems that need to be solved (both legal and technical) to make it an option.

@cavebeat

I am from Europe, and i hope SEPA should still work. NON-US Euro User are not that small.
But i want also the possibility to use Bitcoin.
Connection with flattr would also be nice, to receive some amount of tips on flattr.

Paypal is the big player, but i don't like it very much.

@ironchefpython

Disclaimer: I am not recommending xe, as I know nothing about about them except people I know use it to gamble... er "trade" currency, and the have been around forever.

Why not use a currency trading service to move money? You avoid the massive cut that banks will take to convert currency (since currency traders compete on price), plus the actual transfer is free.

Looking at http://xe.com it appears ideal. We could turn US dollars into nearly any currency, and send disbursements for free to EU, UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Plus we can wire the money almost anywhere in the world (for a fee).

Again, this is NOT an endorsement! I have not yet looked deeply at xe, and have no idea where the pitfalls will be.

@mrjoes
mrjoes commented Nov 1, 2012

It is quite possible that Payoneer (http://payoneer.com) is one of the options. Anyone can get card for free and I'm pretty sure they have some kind of API to load funds to the card.

@skopp
skopp commented Nov 12, 2012

While I like all these fancy and cool ideas (especially Stripe), I'm afraid in reality the most feasible option is PayPal (like them or not, they have a solid track record)

@sigmavirus24
Contributor

@skopp their track record is also terrible in shutting down accounts arbitrarily.

@skopp
skopp commented Nov 17, 2012

Well, @sigmavirus24 - I get your point (really I do - most big companies, and especially financial service providers, tend to stray. Sometimes often. At best, not that often). The world is real, not ideal, unfortunately. Realistically, I see them as the most stable of online payment mgmt account thingys. Bitcoin amuses me (I took it seriously at first, no more). So does Google Wallet with the NFC gimmickry. Not because they don't work, not at all. Because they don't nad will not work here (South Africa) and not for a long time to come. A Barclays owned SA bank, FNB, was sharp enough about 5 years back to invest in Paypal services.
We're talking global here, keep that in mind.

I'm open to options/suggestions on (in fact I dislike monopolies, so I actually am hoping for) solid alternatives.

@skopp
skopp commented Nov 17, 2012

Just an aside too, @cavebeat ... I despise banks in general. And I'm being modest in my wording here.
Alas, I am not powerful enough to take the global Plutonomy on. The least I (and anyone else for that matter) can do to say phunc you to them is by not taking loans, overdrafts etc. and trying to capitalize interest on my money invested with them as close as possible to the rate at which they me.
But now I'm getting into socio-political economics. Just an aside, as I said.

@kangasbros

I actually find it quite surprising that someone finds Bitcoin "amusing" at this point. It is very a serious concept, with potentially very far-reaching socio-economical implications.

However, bitcoin doesn't work very well with the concept of gittip.com. Bitcoin works best for one-time transactions, not so well with recurring.

@kangasbros

"For the last year, Bitcoin has been kind of like the kid who moves to a new town right in the middle of high school. Sitting alone at lunch. Quiet, but proud. Widely suspected of dealing drugs. He doesn't have any friends and he's not sure he wants them.

Well, that's all over, because this week Bitcoin started hanging out with one of the most popular kids in school."

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/telecom/internet/wordpress-now-accepts-bitcoin

@skopp
skopp commented Nov 18, 2012

@kangasbros yooo sorry guy, I used the wrong word, that's all - and only slightly off at that. I wasn't writing like it were my Nobel Prize acceptance speech draft.
Anyway, that wasn't even my point, in fact nowhere near the gist of my comment - whether I found [arbitrary service or commodity/currency] to be [arbitrary adjective]. Maybe I should write short phrases.

I don't see it working, especially not on the continent I happen to be on right now. That's all. It's not that I think Bitcoin is stupid, not at all. Amusing, yes - and c'mon, it's a very wacky idea. One a lot of people do think is stupid - just as I imagine many thought that "flying machines" were before the aviation age. I didn't say it can't work, I said I lost hope in it.

What was this whole thread about again?

@jezdez
jezdez commented Nov 22, 2012

This thread is about adding the ability to transfer money escrowed at Gittip to non-US bank accounts. FYI.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Nov 25, 2012

@mrjoes Payoneer looks quite interesting, thank you. Do you (or anyone else on this thread) have experience with Payoneer?

I've submitted the inquiry form on Payoneer's website. I'm also going to invite @balanced to be part of that conversation.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Nov 25, 2012

Looks like Payoneer is legit:

http://www.payoneer.com/payoneercards.aspx

I see oDesk, Elance, Rent-a-Coder, Veer, etc.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Nov 25, 2012

@mitsuhiko @jezdez @visionmedia etc. How would you feel about Payoneer?

@mrjoes
mrjoes commented Nov 25, 2012

I have Payoneer card for few years and successfully received funds from both oDesk and 2checkout. I never did business with them, so I have no idea how they work with partners.

They have some extra fees (4.6% for ATM withdrawal) + loading fee.

Payoneer is only option for most of the developing countries, as they mail physical MasterCard which is accepted by any ATM. Bank transfers require a lot of paperwork and other options are somewhat more expensive (Western Union).

@tj
tj commented Nov 25, 2012

No clue, never heard of them :D

@weblance2

I have heard they are no longer legal in India and some freelance marketplaces are dropping them. Anyone know if this is true?

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Nov 26, 2012

@artagnon Have you ever heard of Payoneer? Can you comment on their status in India?

@artagnon
Contributor

@whit537 I've never heard of Payoneer. CCAvenue is the largest payment gateway in India though- why not use them?

@matin
Contributor
matin commented Nov 26, 2012

@whit537 Balanced's next step for international is IAT (balanced/balanced-api#44), which supports:

  • EU
  • Australia
  • New Zealand
  • Canada
  • Hong Kong
  • India
  • Mexico
  • Singapore

Pre-paid cards may or may not come later. We're still working on making some improvements to bank transfers in the US, but I'll keep the GitHub issue updated as we progress.

@weblance2

whoohoo never too soon aye!

@mahmoudimus

@whit537 balanced's attempting to explore bitcoin - balanced/balanced-api#204.

Looking forward to discussing how this advances.

@bitpay
bitpay commented Nov 27, 2012

Someone just needs to take Bitcoin and start hacking up a solution to manage payouts...don't worry about volatility or exchange...it's the payout part of the problem that you should work on...and at any point in the process where someone needs to hold Bitcoins for any period of time, build in an assumption that there's a simple API that will let you hedge that balance against any currency (USD or otherwise). That API will exist in due time, but in the meantime, you can build the platform needed to receive Bitcoins and distribute them (people might even use it without the ability to hedge the balance).

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Nov 27, 2012

I heard back from Payoneer sales and have reticketed that as #396.

@matin Thanks for the update re: @balanced's strategy. Coverage of IAT is 80%, which is a big win if it's also low-hanging fruit.

Re: Bitcoin, let's discuss further on #310.

@sigmavirus24
Contributor

@whit537 perhaps speak to Gumroad according to their FAQ they support international payouts. They might have some insight as well

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 4, 2012

Status

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 4, 2012

@sigmavirus24 I've reached out to @gumroad on Twitter.

@sigmavirus24
Contributor

@whit537 good to hear. Can't wait to see how this resolves (even though I'm in the US) :P

@jkwade
jkwade commented Dec 4, 2012

@whit537 I know the CEO of Gumroad. I can see if I can get an intro.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 4, 2012

Thanks @jkwade! :)

@jkwade
jkwade commented Dec 4, 2012

Email sent. Told him to comment here or email @whit537 directly.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 4, 2012

!m @jkwade

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 10, 2012

I run a business division which specializes in payments or "Withdrawals" is to NON-US bank accounts the correct coverage is is about 100 countries including Pakistan, India, Philippines. We have the ability to credit bank accounts with 24 hours. Jareau suggested me to join this discussion. Any thoughts?

@skopp
skopp commented Dec 10, 2012

Do said countries incl. South Africa? Which banks? And how do you trade? (You must have a registration # that can be looked up.

Sorry if I seem harsh in tone, but this is a serious matter and I'm sure you'll agree
Regards, MR Essop

-----Original Message-----
From: nraoTF notifications@github.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:53:38
To: whit537/www.gittip.comwww.gittip.com@noreply.github.com
Reply-To: "whit537/www.gittip.com" reply@reply.github.com
Cc: skoppskopp888@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [www.gittip.com] find a solution for withdrawals outside the US
(#126)

I run a business division which specializes in payments or "Withdrawals" is to NON-US bank accounts the correct coverage is is about 100 countries including Pakistan, India, Philippines. We have the ability to credit bank accounts with 24 hours. Jareau suggested me to join this discussion. Any thoughts?


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-11217057

@weblance2

nraoTF how do we contact you to learn more?

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 10, 2012

Sure reach me on the below number

Best regard’s

Nagarajan Rao

(212) 518-3876 ©

From: Jeff Williams [mailto:notifications@github.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:35 PM
To: whit537/www.gittip.com
Cc: Nagarajan Rao
Subject: Re: [www.gittip.com] find a solution for withdrawals outside the US (#126)

nraoTF how do we contact you to learn more?


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-11221742 .

https://github.com/notifications/beacon/Jshd8sI44GVrKZBvymxqKBkpqs6KFrxTcYukNHcKrD1nqRt93kWOh5B_wQdu68qE.gif

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 10, 2012

Call me on 2125183876 EST

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 10, 2012

Yes sure we can do any bank- what do you mean by trade?. I understand its serious. Best to call me to discuss - 2125183876

Best regard’s

Nagarajan Rao

(212) 518-3876 ©

From: skopp [mailto:notifications@github.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:24 PM
To: whit537/www.gittip.com
Cc: Nagarajan Rao
Subject: Re: [www.gittip.com] find a solution for withdrawals outside the US (#126)

Do said countries incl. South Africa? Which banks? And how do you trade? (You must have a registration # that can be looked up.

Sorry if I seem harsh in tone, but this is a serious matter and I'm sure you'll agree
Regards, MR Essop

-----Original Message-----
From: nraoTF notifications@github.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:53:38
To: whit537/www.gittip.comwww.gittip.com@noreply.github.com
Reply-To: "whit537/www.gittip.com" reply@reply.github.com
Cc: skoppskopp888@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [www.gittip.com] find a solution for withdrawals outside the US
(#126)

I run a business division which specializes in payments or "Withdrawals" is to NON-US bank accounts the correct coverage is is about 100 countries including Pakistan, India, Philippines. We have the ability to credit bank accounts with 24 hours. Jareau suggested me to join this discussion. Any thoughts?


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:
https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-11217057


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-11221209 .

https://github.com/notifications/beacon/Jshd8sI44GVrKZBvymxqKBkpqs6KFrxTcYukNHcKrD1nqRt93kWOh5B_wQdu68qE.gif

@skopp
skopp commented Dec 11, 2012

Trade: operate/work -- your process, business model - whatever you want to call it. Have you not even a "throwaway" email or GTalk/XMPP or can you create the like for calls?

Aside: I was using email earlier, hence didn't see that you're Gumroad... correct?

@skopp
skopp commented Dec 11, 2012

@weblance2 just an FYI, you can @mention anyone and your message will reach them as a notify

@skopp
skopp commented Dec 11, 2012

@bitpay if you can organize yourself or the right people to draw a peoposal, I can try the same, badaboom badabing. I'm no financial person (are they considered people?).

But I do know one or two private bankers, sure they'd be eager to take it on ESPECIALLY as an answer to PAyPAl's local presence

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 11, 2012

@skopp - I already have this setup as a business and processing over 10 million transactions

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 11, 2012

@weblance2 thanks

@tonylampada

@nraoTF What's your company website?!

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 15, 2012

Www. Tabs-pay.comhttp://Tabs-pay.com

Best regard's
N Rao

On Dec 14, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "tonylampada" <notifications@github.commailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

@nraoTFhttps://github.com/nraoTF What's your company website?!


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126#issuecomment-11399113.

@sigmavirus24
Contributor

@tonylampada based on the phone number he has provided earlier in this: http://trans-pay.com/contactus.html is the website

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 19, 2012

Hey,

We have international payout capability which is far more superior then payoneer, I don't know how you concluded that payoneer is the front runner. You need to get in touch with me to discuss these requirements.

Best regard's
N Rao

On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:55 AM, "Chad Whitacre" <notifications@github.commailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Balanced will work for withdrawals to US bank accounts, but not outside the US. What do we do here? Suggestions?

Current Status


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126.

@nraoTF
nraoTF commented Dec 19, 2012

Chad,

We would like to help balanced do payouts outside the US, can you tell them to connect with me?

Best regard's
N Rao

On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:55 AM, "Chad Whitacre" <notifications@github.commailto:notifications@github.com> wrote:

Balanced will work for withdrawals to US bank accounts, but not outside the US. What do we do here? Suggestions?

Current Status


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/whit537/www.gittip.com/issues/126.

This was referenced Dec 20, 2012
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jan 1, 2013

Former Status

For the record. See top for current.

@sigmavirus24
Contributor

I think your 4th bullet point should be "but we can not wait that long" because really, I'd love to see @jezdez and @mitsuhiko get their payouts.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jan 1, 2013

Roger that, @sigmavirus24.

@jslegers
jslegers commented Jan 9, 2014

At this point in time, are there any options that allow me (living in Belgium) to receive payments on Gittip from people who want to sponsor my open source work?

If so, what exactly are the proper procedures?

If not, any idea when I can expect such options?

It's all a bit unclear to me now what I can and cannot do with Gittip.

@bruceadams
Contributor

@jslegers The currently available mechanisms are described on the FAQ page https://www.gittip.com/about/faq.html

How do I withdraw funds from Gittip?

There are three ways to withdraw funds from Gittip:
  1. Connect a bank account. Funds will be deposited every Friday (no fee; U.S.-only).
  2. Contact us to set up a weekly PayPal payout (2% fee, capped at $20).
  3. Contact us to request a one-time bitcoin payout (1% + 15¢ fee).
@jslegers
jslegers commented Jan 9, 2014

@bruceadams :

Contact us isn't exactly informative. Neither is the page I end up at when I click the link.

It provides me the following contact info :

Gittip, LLC
716 Park Road
Ambridge, PA 15003
USA

Email: support@gittip.com
Twitter: @Gittip
Facebook: Gittip
Freenode: #gittip
GitHub: gittip Chad Whitacre, Founder
Twitter: @whit537

Should I tweet @Gittip? Should I tweet @whit537? Should I send a mail to support@gittip.com? Should I send a letter to 716 Park Road, Ambridge, USA? Or should I perhaps send a to mail to chad's personal email chad@zetaweb.com?

Also, does that mean PayPal currently is the only option for weekly payments? How exactly does the one-time Bitcoin payment work? Would I need to contact Gittip for every one-time Bitcoin payment or only to set it up the first time? Do I need an account on Coinbase or another online wallet system? Can others see on my profile whether I have there's a PayPal, Coinbase or other account associated to my Gittip account? What information do you need me to provide you to be able to link my Gittip account to my PayPal account? etc.

I understand you have difficulties setting up a reliable payment system for your European members, but one year after this issue was first logged I expect a bit more information than Contact us on how to link my Gittip account with my PayPal account. One year after this issue was first logged, I expect a more efficient and structured way to set up something as essential as a way to receive payments. Heck, even a Send a mail to xxx@xxx with subject yyy or a basic contact form would a lot more efficient than Contact us... which to me sounds like the equivalent of this:

Send your query to a random Gittip employee and prepare yourself for a
series of inefficient ping-pong mails with several folks at Gittip who really
can't help you further and are equally frustrated with having their time
wasted forwarding your question to someone else.

I can't say all this makes me confident about using Gittip in the future.

@clone1018
Member

You would get support from any contact method you listed, especially the hand written letter to Ambridge.

@zwn
Contributor
zwn commented Jan 9, 2014

Email support@gittip.com. Paypal is recuring, bitcoin is one time (need to contact again for another payout). Sorry about not being more helpful.

@seanlinsley
Contributor

@jslegers the Gittip team is so small, it's hard to contact someone who isn't able to help you.

@whit537 whit537 added a commit that referenced this issue Jan 9, 2014
@whit537 whit537 Point people straight to email for payins/outs
We heard from a user on #126 about the confusing flow for configuring
PayPal or requesting bitcoin payins/outs. This addresses the issue by
pointing directly to email as the preferred support method for these
requests, rather than linking to the general "Contact us" info.
3768fc8
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jan 9, 2014

@jslegers Sorry for the frustration. :-(

I've started a PR at #1866 with hopefully a quick win. Can we pick up the conversation over there?

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jan 10, 2014

@jslegers We've gone ahead and deployed #1866, which changes the "Contact us" link on the FAQ to "Email us," with a prepopulated subject line. Hopefully that moves us in the right direction?

@dominictarr dominictarr referenced this issue in dominictarr/feedopensource Jan 13, 2014
Open

I would fund this if it wasn't bitcoins #6

@zwn
Contributor
zwn commented Feb 15, 2014

Should we name this issue "International Payouts"? See https://botbot.me/freenode/gittip/msg/10970854/

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Feb 15, 2014

@zwn Done. I was actually getting ready to close this ticket, since we do support international payouts now, via PayPal and bitcoin.

@zwn
Contributor
zwn commented Feb 15, 2014

@whit537 Right now we say at https://www.gittip.com/about/:

We're working on automated payouts outside the U.S. Right now they're handled manually—contact us as needed—with postage and/or fees charged at cost.

I don't think having undercover paypal account is the solution to international payouts. As you said yourself, paypal can freeze it without explanation etc.

Anyway, I think we should do better than this.

@jslegers

@whit537 :

I agree with @zwn .

As a Belgian, I'm not inclined to put Gittip as an alternative to Paypal donations on http://www.cascade-framework.com/ as long as there's no better solution.

Paypal support for Gittip seems like a somewhat reasonable intermediate solution, but I'm turned off by the "undercover" manual application procedure.

Bitcoin doesn't appeal to me either, as I haven't really ever used Bitcoin and using Gittip doesn't seem like a sufficient reason to start using Bitcoin.

Of course, I speak only for myself... but I doubt I'm the only European with the same opinion.

@SimonSarazin

+1 @zwn. MangoPay is always an option for gittip ? Maybe i could investigate in France to get a legal entity here with a bank account. I can try to call MangoPay to get more information on how we could do it. I have to see if a non profit entity could be a solution (associations Law 1901or financial endowment).

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Feb 20, 2014

+1 from @mgonto (Argentina) in private email.

@rkh
rkh commented Feb 25, 2014

What if you have a US bank account but not a US address?

@seanlinsley
Contributor

@rkh theoretically that would work, though you may want to contact Balanced support to be sure.

@patcon
Contributor
patcon commented Feb 25, 2014

@rkh that situation worked fine for me as a Canadian :)

@rkh
rkh commented Feb 25, 2014

It doesn't let me enter a foreign address, though.

@bruceadams
Contributor

@whit537 said (responding to a support question) that @balanced does not (yet?) accept foreign addresses. I was under the impression that we've even heard that complaint from people with Canadian addresses (and US Bank accounts).

@steveklabnik

@rkh congrats on being an edge case! ha! 😦

Basically, yes, this is a particular case that we are bad at right now. This kind of thing happens once in a blue moon. 😦

@SimonSarazin

I've had a discussion with Pierre from MangoPay (European counter-part to Balanced). They became partners with "Balanced" so it will soon be possible to use all the MangoPay network with "Balanced". But this will not be possible before end of Q2 (june, july...?) because Balanced has an heavy roadmap. In the meantime, we can use a temporary legal entity here in France to accept funds with MangoPay. I'm waiting for an answer from Pierre, but any local association could do the job. We could easily create one dedicated Gittip here in France (that's easy), or get a temporary partnership with an already existing entity.

@zwn
Contributor
zwn commented Feb 28, 2014

@SimonSarazin How is this going to work? Will we have to have one escrow or two (one in balanced, one in mangopay)? How about multicurrency escrow? I'd like to know what to prepare for in the codebase.

@SimonSarazin

@zwn, I have no idea about that. I didn't investigated how Mangopay or Balanced work :/

@bruceadams
Contributor
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Mar 3, 2014

They became partners with "Balanced"

Interesting! First I've heard of that since balanced/balanced-api#357 eight months ago. :-)

@jumoog
jumoog commented Apr 15, 2014

maybe you can add a option to transfer money to Digital Ocean or use it to pay Github

@patcon
Contributor
patcon commented Apr 15, 2014

Interesting. Not sure if it's a good idea for us (outside our core mission), but both Github and DigitalOcean handle payment processing via Braintree...
https://www.digitalocean.com/security/
https://help.github.com/articles/github-security#credit-card-safety

If you're really interested @jumoog, perhaps you could create another issue and update that after initiating contact with braintree/digitalocean/github? It might not get much further than that code-wise without a PR from you, but at least the info is there for the next person who might step up :)

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Apr 16, 2014

@jumoog Sounds like a +1 for gifts in kind (#827)?

@jumoog
jumoog commented Apr 16, 2014

yes

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Apr 25, 2014

Balanced has published a three-step roadmap for non-U.S. payments:

  1. Charges in local currencies.
  2. Payouts to non-U.S. bank accounts.
  3. Escrow in multiple currencies.
@patcon
Contributor
patcon commented Apr 25, 2014

(Expected Launch of phase 1 is May 22, 2014)

@steveklabnik

Emphasis on "expected". ;)

@PragTob
PragTob commented May 12, 2014

Good that we have @steveklabnik on that side :)

Hoping things with balanced will work out!

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

Personally, I don't like the 2% additional "foreign currency conversion" costs though.... That can easily be avoided by escrowing money in more than one currency.

@steveklabnik

For certain values of "easily". 😉

@rkh
rkh commented May 12, 2014

It is also possible to have bank accounts in USD outside the US, even if the country that bank account is in is not using USD as its currency.

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

@rkh - not necessarily.. we're talking about individuals, not companies. Multiple currency bank accounts can be impossible or just overly expensive for individuals. That's one of the problems an organization like balanced or gittip should solve IMO.

Putting the burden of conversion or multi currency storage issues on the gittip receiver dilutes the potential earnings. Go to far in that and PayPal becomes cheaper.…. :)

@patcon
Contributor
patcon commented May 12, 2014

[redacted as tangential :) ]

@whit537 whit537 referenced this issue in Homebrew/legacy-homebrew Jun 2, 2014
Closed

Add donation link #20482

@lyndsysimon
Contributor

@rkh @mvdkleijn:

Having attempted to open a SEPA-enabled bank account in the EU under my own name as a US citizen, I have to agree - it's extremely difficult if not impossible to do this.

After checking in to doing it under an LLC, the barriers are changed from "difficult" to "expensive".

Asking users to recieve payouts in arbitrary foreign currency seems like a non-starter to me.

We might consider that acquiring an EU account for Gittip that allows SEPA transfers would, combined with US ACH transfers via Balanced, expand our most straight-forward use case to most of the developed world. There are of course a host of legal and financial issues involved in doing this.

Bitcoin seems like the easiest solution - it can be automated with external APIs. Coinbase allows this today, and while I see no mention of credits via Bitcoin in the Balanced API docs, I suspect they're either already planning this functionality or would be open to working toward it in the future.

And with that, I'll stop talking about Bitcoin payouts in this Issue. Let's do that in #1960.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Jun 12, 2014

+1 from @Seldaek in private email:

I just read your medium post about gittip growth and it struck me as someone living in Europe that one of the main adoption barriers (to me) is the payment restrictions to US citizens.

While it is probably true that the startup buzz is mostly SFO/US centric, I don't think this applies to open source work. There are tons of OS workers in europe and tons of different mentalities that are more or less friendly to open source and sharing than the US is.

I fully appreciate that it's a hard problem given the size of your business right now, but IMO finding a solution to this would expand your addressable user base dramatically.

Since I live in Switzerland, I am thinking maybe there are ways to get bank accounts here via US subsidiaries of UBS or Credit Suisse, but I am not sure what the restrictions are to be honest. Otherwise I hear creating a branch in Ireland or such is not so costly, maybe it would be enough to have a foothold and get access to european banking.

@Changaco
Contributor

It seems to me that https://www.balancedpayments.com/push-to-card is coming soon, and that it would provide a solution for many (most?) non-US users (including myself).

@steveklabnik

Push to card is US only, but hopefully will expand international more quickly than standard payouts.

@Changaco
Contributor

😞

@rkh
rkh commented Jun 22, 2014

Dare I say PayPal?

Note that if a non-US resident wants to close their Gittip account, that might lead to a loss of all tips to that account.

@rkh
rkh commented Jun 22, 2014

Also, since push to card does not need an address, it would solve the US bank account without US address scenario.

@bjorn
bjorn commented Jun 22, 2014

@rkh PayPal is already an option (see https://www.gittip.com/about/faq.html), but it is considered sub-optimal (for example due to fees, arbitrary policies and not going to bank accounts). Also it's not a solution for everybody.

As for loss of all tips, I think the system would allow refunding those to the source accounts if there was no option of paying out (but I haven't checked this).

@balupton
Contributor
balupton commented Aug 5, 2014

Stripe for a while now supports AU payouts and multi-currency billing here in Australia. Which is fantastic.

ti.to uses stripe here to give us money for events, we could provide gittip with our stripe tokens, and then gittip could bill gittip using our stripe account, and we'll get the money, and it'll be awesome — in the same way ti.to does. There will still be an annoying fee associated with it, but it will surely be less than the paypal fees.

@nathany
nathany commented Aug 12, 2014

Does Stellar have potential to fill this need?
https://stripe.com/blog/stellar

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 12, 2014

@nathany Possibly. Thanks for mentioning it.

@whit537 whit537 added ★★☆ and removed ★★★ labels Aug 15, 2014
@Fishrock123 Fishrock123 referenced this issue in jshttp/jshttp.github.io Aug 15, 2014
Open

create a "team" page #43

@balupton
Contributor

Stripe, Braintree, and BitPay are non-starters because we're talking about paying out to people, and afaik those are services for paying money in to a single merchant.

Why not just get people to register accounts for them, then use the user's api tokens with those services to pay in to them? Problem solved. Explained again for stripe specifically here: #126 (comment)


It would also be great if there was a wiki page for this, that summarised the issue, progress, and options. As right now the gittip website links to several different places for information about this.

@Changaco
Contributor

This issue is going to become even more important now that we've started to translate Gittip into other languages.

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

I would like to respectfully suggest we use Transferwise.

  • They support payOUTs in Euros to any EU country within the SEPA area.
  • They have a simple and reasonably pricing structure.

See https://transferwise.com/support/what-currencies for more details on currencies.
See https://transferwise.com/support/usd for some more details on US dollars, specifically the bottom part.

TransferWise can make transfers from USD into any of our other supported currencies.

I also believe their "origin story" as it were, fits nicely with the Gittip ideal of changing the economy. :) https://transferwise.com/en/about

@balupton
Contributor

Can we get some @gittip leadership for this, namely:

  1. What is the hold up when a combination of solutions can work for everyone?
  2. How can this be sped up?
  3. What is the point of waiting implementing individual solutions?
  4. Summary of the different options in a wiki, their options and considerations, and steps to implement them

While Paypal may have a 2% fee, there is also a currency conversion fee too depending on the receiving account. The Bitcoin option doesn't specify at what rate the conversion happens too and is very hard to withdraw into fiat currency even in Australia.

So as it stands, there is no viable option for international people, which sucks, as I, like many others, would like to use my gittip balance, and recommend it as my primary income receiver, as well as if Gittip is holding onto my money, it would be nice to have access to the interest they earn on it.

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

I don't mind if Gittip uses the interest on my balance (what little there is), heck we could even have an opt-in checkbox in the personal settings screen saying "yes, Gittip is allowed to use my interest to help run Gittip"

I do think we need a viable (i.e. not PayPal or Bitcoins) international payout option with clear pricing structure and clear currency conversion rate policy.

I believe Transferwise (I'm not affiliated in any way) could be this option since they use the mid-market conversion rate and we can probably work with them on the non-ideal pricing model: https://transferwise.com/support/how-much-does-it-cost

Please note that I've taken the liberty to send them the following email in hopes of getting the international payout issue resolved:

Hey there,

Gittip is an online sustainable crowdfunding site from which we hope people can start to earn their regular incomes.

For international payouts, we're still looking for a solution. I've suggested we use Transferwise.

There are probably a few concerns when using you guys though, to which I hope you can provide some answers:

1. Do you have an API we can talk to? (I couldn't find info on your site about that)

2. Would it be possible to get a different rate structure?

3. Or, if #2 is not possible, would it be possible to do bulk payouts from our Gittip account to multiple receiving accounts, thereby incurring the fee only once over the outgoing amount?

I invite you to join the discussion over at GitHub (instead of replying to this mail) and provide the answers over there. We're hoping to grow the site considerably and decent international payout support would help that goal a lot in my opinion.

You can find the discussion over at https://github.com/gittip/www.gittip.com/issues/126

Sincerely,

Martijn
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 25, 2014

Note that if a non-US resident wants to close their Gittip account, that might lead to a loss of all tips to that account.

@rkh We don't allow closing accounts that still have a balance. If sending to a bank account or PayPal isn't an option, then you can still redistribute it as a final gift or contact support@gittip.com to receive a bitcoin payout. In any case you don't need to worry about accidentally losing the money. :-)

Also, since push to card does not need an address, it would solve the US bank account without US address scenario.

Actually, we don't strictly need an address for US bank account payouts either. It's a historical artifact that we require identity verification for bank payouts, and we're looking to relax that requirement in #987.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 25, 2014

It would also be great if there was a wiki page for this, that summarised the issue, progress, and options.

This ticket is the best place for info. The description has a summary of our current status.

As right now the gittip website links to several different places for information about this.

Can you be more specific?

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 25, 2014

What is the hold up when a combination of solutions can work for everyone?

Developer and management time. :-)

How can this be sped up?

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

What is the point of waiting implementing individual solutions?

What do you mean by "individual solutions"?

Summary of the different options in a wiki, their options and considerations, and steps to implement them

As mentioned, options are in the description, with links to tickets where each is discussed further. I've made a new ticket for exploring the Stripe option: #2680.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 25, 2014

Please note that I've taken the liberty to send them the following email

@mvdkleijn Thanks for taking initiative! :D

The lack of an API and their pricing structure indicate to me that Transferwise is a consumer product and isn't really set up for whitelabel usage. We're going to hear the same thing from them that we heard from Stripe back in the day (and more recently Venmo): our terms of service don't allow for third-party usage. TransferWise is great if you want to send money to a friend, but it doubt it will work for sending money to someone through Gittip. Let us know if you discover differently. :-)

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

Heard back from Transferwise and it would suggest @whit537 is right unfortunately...

TransferWise Support wrote:
Hey Martijn,

I had a peak at the Gittip link you provided, however I was afraid the information would get lost in the conversations as there was a long wall of text there. So I decided to respond to you on the email here instead. I hope that's okay with you.

In terms of API, then it is not something we offer as of yet. It's been requested quite many times before, however due to the way our system is set up, then it takes a lot of development time to still get there.

Regarding a different rate structure, then we always use the mid-market rate to convert the funds for you. When converting though the mid-market, then you can be sure that you are always getting the best possible rate, the same rate is applied to both payments big and small. So the amount you send won't result in a worse or better rate.

When sending multiple payments, then you would need to set up a payment order for each recipient, but it's perfectly fine to send in the deposit in a single larger sum. We will split the deposit between your payment orders and you'll be good to go.

I hope this helped provide some clarity, but should you have additional questions for us, then please let me know and I'll be happy to help.

All the best!

Mihkel Stint ⁞ TransferWise Customer Support

An API seems to be in the works though it'll take a lot of development time to still get there as they say...

The lack of proper international payouts is bothering me more and more... especially since there appear to be several possible avenues but no action on them. For me at least its also keeping me from advising people to use Gittip. (eurgh... Gratipay)

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

@whit537

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

Why is it a prerequisite? A solution could auto-convert funds on the fly. Maybe not ideal in terms of getting the most bang out of your Euro / Dollar / whatever... but would be a lot simpler.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 4, 2014

@mvdkleijn Yeah, I guess you're right. If we escrow in USD only then we don't need multi-currency support in the database. Sure seems like escrowing in USD only is not going to be ultimately satisfactory, though.

@mvdkleijn
Contributor

@whit537 I suggest international payouts is made the top priority since a lot of people are waiting for it.

It'd also give gratipay a scoop / edge over competition since I believe that no one else has "native" international payouts. (Non paypal etc)

Escrowing only in US dollars is suboptimal, I agree, but I respectfully suggest getting the feature out there now is more important than having it optimized. We can always optimize the feature at a later date. (Ie escrow in more than justvus dollars)

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 4, 2014

@mvdkleijn We already have suboptimal non-U.S. payouts, via PayPal and bitcoin. Of the options (listed in the description), Balanced and Stripe aren't under our control. We can't really do more to make either of them move faster than they are (though the fact that neither of them has really solved this either yet should be an indication of how hard this is).

That leaves MangoPay and Trans-Pay. I'm currently pursuing the Trans-Pay + Jumio option (#417 + #2449), because that would take us into almost all countries, whereas MangoPay (#891) only gets us into Europe.

@balupton
Contributor

What are the exact fees associated with the paypal option? Paypal lists a fair few fees:
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

I also assume there will be currency conversion fees on top of this perhaps?


Knowing the BTC exchange rate that is used would also be great.

@patcon
Contributor
patcon commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton If I'm reading you correctly, and you're wondering why PayPal isn't the solution here: PayPal is suboptimal not on account of the fees, but rather because they won't underwrite Gratipay's model. We've only been permitted to use them by slipping under the radar, which has only been possible by making PayPal's usage a somewhat unwieldy manual effort :)

(Correct me if I'm wrong though, folks)

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton PayPal's fee is 2% (fee capped at $20), and Coinbase's fee is 1% + 15¢ (these are on the FAQ, btw). I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

@bjorn
bjorn commented Sep 23, 2014

I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

That probably depends on the country. In Netherlands it is free to withdraw from PayPal for example.

I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 23, 2014

I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

@bjorn Yeah, that hits after the 2% fee. If you look on your Gratipay history page you should see the PayPal fee that hits on our side.

@bjorn
bjorn commented Sep 23, 2014

@whit537 Ouch, so that sums up to over 5% in fees. I didn't request any PayPal withdrawal yet so far, but when I'd ever have significant amount of funds to withdraw I'll certainly go for the Bitcoin option instead.

@balupton
Contributor

@bjorn good to know, I suspected that the 2% was likely only gratipay's side, and that the standard receiver fees as linked in that link I did also applied. It is pretty costly form of withdrawal.

Gratipay, how about the bitcoin exchange rate?

@patcon Just trying to figure out which method provides the maximum return on the lump that I have in Gratipay, anything less would be a waste.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton We are using Coinbase for our bitcoin wallet, and their fee is 1% + 15¢ (as mentioned above and on the FAQ), which, as usual, we pass through to you with no markup. Assuming you have your own wallet, this should be a more reasonably-priced option.

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 11, 2014

I just learned about http://www.earthport.com/ via Twitter.

@balupton
Contributor

@whit537 thanks, turns out there is coinjar in australia that allows withdrawels - unfortunately coinbase doesn't

@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Dec 31, 2014

+1 for Canada from FD1545.

@antonsviridenko

So, are international SWIFT transfers supported currently or not?

@whit537 whit537 referenced this issue in gratipay/inside.gratipay.com Feb 17, 2015
Closed

use Gratipay money to send Chad to events #139

This was referenced Apr 21, 2015
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 9, 2015

We have upgraded PayPal from a stop-gap to a first-class payout method—in fact, it's now our only payout method (#3567). While not perfect, PayPal does provide more or less global coverage. Therefore, I'm going to take the opportunity to close this old and venerable ticket.

Looking at the other options in the description: the Stripe and MangoPay tickets got closed as part of the Balanced shutdown, because we ended up charting a roll-your-own course instead of using a prefab solution (see #3324 (comment) for discussion). Transpay is still on the table, to be revisited once we have a proper in-house anti-money laundering (AML) program. IAT and SWIFT are also options; those were in the works downstream of #3366, which fell through for (again) lack of AML.

Thanks, everyone! :-)

@whit537 whit537 closed this Aug 9, 2015
@whit537
Member
whit537 commented Aug 10, 2015

(Thanks, fixed.)

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