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withdrawals outside the US, a.k.a. international payouts #126

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chadwhitacre opened this Issue Jul 6, 2012 · 297 comments

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chadwhitacre commented Jul 6, 2012

Balanced will work for withdrawals to U.S. bank accounts, but not outside the U.S. What do we do here? Suggestions?

Current Status

  1. MassPay—As a stop-gap while we await the chance to prioritize implementing a more robust solution, we are offering automatic weekly payouts via PayPal. This is risky because PayPal is likely to freeze our account once we get on their radar. If you'd like to participate, email support@gittip.com with your Gittip username, PayPal email address, and the first eight digits of the API key from your Gittip profile page (to confirm your account). PayPal's fee is 2%, capped at $20.
  2. Balanced—Our automated payments provider, Balanced, is working to implement international ACH transfers (IAT). Please see their roadmap and voice your interest on this ticket. Balanced is shutting down, see #3245.
  3. Stripe—They've added payouts (à la Balanced), and are known to be working on expanding to the EU. See #3245.
  4. Trans-Pay—The ball is in our court to improve our KYC practices (via #2449?) and circle back. See #417.
  5. MangoPay—They're a European counter-part to Balanced. We would need a European legal entity and bank account. See #891.

Want to Help?

Give us a PR for multi-currency support. That's a pre-requisite no matter which direction we go.

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mitsuhiko Jul 7, 2012

I'm starting to get the feeling the only real solution for international transfers is paypal. They however already burned open source projects in the past because paypal does not accept donations officially so it would make sense to get some clarification if paypal is acceptable for that.

mitsuhiko commented Jul 7, 2012

I'm starting to get the feeling the only real solution for international transfers is paypal. They however already burned open source projects in the past because paypal does not accept donations officially so it would make sense to get some clarification if paypal is acceptable for that.

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RafaelReinehr Aug 24, 2012

I'm also from Brazil and want to clarify this question. The objective of this "neomecenate" tool is do help develop a series of projects dedicated do common good. I suggest paypal.

RafaelReinehr commented Aug 24, 2012

I'm also from Brazil and want to clarify this question. The objective of this "neomecenate" tool is do help develop a series of projects dedicated do common good. I suggest paypal.

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chadwhitacre Aug 24, 2012

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Here's the Balanced ticket for this:

balanced/balanced-api#23

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 24, 2012

Here's the Balanced ticket for this:

balanced/balanced-api#23

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jdnavarro Aug 27, 2012

Bitcoin could be a solution for this. If you don't want to deal directly in bitcoins, there are some merchant gateways that do the currency exchange between bitcoins and different currencies in the same transference. I don't think all currencies are supported and I don't know how reliable they are. BitPay looks like the most popular one, but there are more services listed in the bitcoin wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Shopping_Cart_Interfaces

jdnavarro commented Aug 27, 2012

Bitcoin could be a solution for this. If you don't want to deal directly in bitcoins, there are some merchant gateways that do the currency exchange between bitcoins and different currencies in the same transference. I don't think all currencies are supported and I don't know how reliable they are. BitPay looks like the most popular one, but there are more services listed in the bitcoin wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Shopping_Cart_Interfaces

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VictorBjelkholm commented Aug 27, 2012

How about Stripe?
https://stripe.com/

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jezdez Aug 28, 2012

Strip allows transfer to non-US accounts?

jezdez commented Aug 28, 2012

Strip allows transfer to non-US accounts?

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VictorBjelkholm Aug 28, 2012

@jezdez no, the company that receives the money need to be based in the US, although it accepts international payments. I supposed that it worked international but it didn't, sorry about that.

VictorBjelkholm commented Aug 28, 2012

@jezdez no, the company that receives the money need to be based in the US, although it accepts international payments. I supposed that it worked international but it didn't, sorry about that.

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ghost Aug 29, 2012

I am all for the bitcoins idea. +1. Outside of it i don't really see any real solution. Paypal is one possibility, but not sure of their policies.

ghost commented Aug 29, 2012

I am all for the bitcoins idea. +1. Outside of it i don't really see any real solution. Paypal is one possibility, but not sure of their policies.

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VictorBjelkholm Aug 30, 2012

Braintree(1) just expanded their list of supported countries. Might be worth checking up.

Supported countries:
the U.S., the U.K., Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Ireland, and Italy.

(1), https://www.braintreepayments.com/

VictorBjelkholm commented Aug 30, 2012

Braintree(1) just expanded their list of supported countries. Might be worth checking up.

Supported countries:
the U.S., the U.K., Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Ireland, and Italy.

(1), https://www.braintreepayments.com/

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chadwhitacre Aug 31, 2012

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Stripe, Braintree, and BitPay are non-starters because we're talking about paying out to people, and afaik those are services for paying money in to a single merchant.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 31, 2012

Stripe, Braintree, and BitPay are non-starters because we're talking about paying out to people, and afaik those are services for paying money in to a single merchant.

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chadwhitacre Aug 31, 2012

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@RafaelReinehr The "neomecenate" concept is intriguing. I wish my Italian were better. Google Translate doesn't do the best job either.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 31, 2012

@RafaelReinehr The "neomecenate" concept is intriguing. I wish my Italian were better. Google Translate doesn't do the best job either.

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chadwhitacre Aug 31, 2012

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@RafaelReinehr I'm reluctant to go down the PayPal route because I'm afraid of getting burned by opaque APIs and policies. As mentioned on #63, if someone with strong PayPal experience wants to champion the implementation then step forward and let's put together your pull request. Otherwise I'm going to prioritize other matters for now, and keep encouraging Balanced to strike some non-US deals. ;-)

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 31, 2012

@RafaelReinehr I'm reluctant to go down the PayPal route because I'm afraid of getting burned by opaque APIs and policies. As mentioned on #63, if someone with strong PayPal experience wants to champion the implementation then step forward and let's put together your pull request. Otherwise I'm going to prioritize other matters for now, and keep encouraging Balanced to strike some non-US deals. ;-)

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kangasbros Sep 2, 2012

Bitcoin would be otherwise godd (unfreezable & fairly easy to convert to other currencies), but the problem is converting the monies from credit card payments to bitcoins. This should be done by gittip operator.

I would love to donate some money with Bitcoin to developers, is this kind of feature planned?

kangasbros commented Sep 2, 2012

Bitcoin would be otherwise godd (unfreezable & fairly easy to convert to other currencies), but the problem is converting the monies from credit card payments to bitcoins. This should be done by gittip operator.

I would love to donate some money with Bitcoin to developers, is this kind of feature planned?

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BladeMcCool Sep 2, 2012

Gittip should allow donations in Bitcoin. Use bitpay to handle that aspect. Let recipients choose if they want to keep their received donations in BTC or have it autoconverted to USD. If they keep it in BTC then you just forward them their BTC. If they convert to USD then you jump through legacy bank system hoops as usual.

BladeMcCool commented Sep 2, 2012

Gittip should allow donations in Bitcoin. Use bitpay to handle that aspect. Let recipients choose if they want to keep their received donations in BTC or have it autoconverted to USD. If they keep it in BTC then you just forward them their BTC. If they convert to USD then you jump through legacy bank system hoops as usual.

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sebicas Sep 2, 2012

+1 For Bitcoin

sebicas commented Sep 2, 2012

+1 For Bitcoin

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RafaelReinehr Sep 2, 2012

The majority of people i know that could "fund me" do not have bitcoins. But they have credit cards. It would be wonderful if gittip could manage this transaction from CC to bitcoin.

RafaelReinehr commented Sep 2, 2012

The majority of people i know that could "fund me" do not have bitcoins. But they have credit cards. It would be wonderful if gittip could manage this transaction from CC to bitcoin.

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colindean Sep 2, 2012

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Discussion about Bitcoin is best directed toward #14, where @gasteve, CTO of BitPay, has chimed in.

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colindean commented Sep 2, 2012

Discussion about Bitcoin is best directed toward #14, where @gasteve, CTO of BitPay, has chimed in.

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maplesyrupghost Sep 3, 2012

Bitcoin is definitely the most convenient, safest, and most logical method.

www.bitcointrading.com

maplesyrupghost commented Sep 3, 2012

Bitcoin is definitely the most convenient, safest, and most logical method.

www.bitcointrading.com

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kangasbros Sep 3, 2012

Honestly, bitcoin is not great for recurring payments. They are possible, not just that handy.

kangasbros commented Sep 3, 2012

Honestly, bitcoin is not great for recurring payments. They are possible, not just that handy.

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jezdez Sep 3, 2012

Maybe using Flattr as the infrastructure would be possible, https://twitter.com/gaiapunk/statuses/242536453140250624

jezdez commented Sep 3, 2012

Maybe using Flattr as the infrastructure would be possible, https://twitter.com/gaiapunk/statuses/242536453140250624

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DanielWeigl Sep 3, 2012

Also thumbs up for bitcoin. And if the CreditCard from BitInstant becomes reallity, it will be even really easy for non-Bitcoiners to accept Bitcoin, but spend them just like USD: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitinstants-debi-card-the-final-push-to-critical-mass/

DanielWeigl commented Sep 3, 2012

Also thumbs up for bitcoin. And if the CreditCard from BitInstant becomes reallity, it will be even really easy for non-Bitcoiners to accept Bitcoin, but spend them just like USD: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/bitinstants-debi-card-the-final-push-to-critical-mass/

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VictorBjelkholm Sep 3, 2012

I would also love Bitcoins. And think of the people that doesn't use american dollars, add euroes in that case would be great.

VictorBjelkholm commented Sep 3, 2012

I would also love Bitcoins. And think of the people that doesn't use american dollars, add euroes in that case would be great.

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gasteve Sep 3, 2012

Let me see if I can find one of our integration partners to take on this project. I personally have very little time available.

gasteve commented Sep 3, 2012

Let me see if I can find one of our integration partners to take on this project. I personally have very little time available.

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chadwhitacre Sep 8, 2012

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Thanks, @gasteve! (I copied your comment to #14.)

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 8, 2012

Thanks, @gasteve! (I copied your comment to #14.)

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chadwhitacre Sep 8, 2012

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Recap So Far

Okay, so here's the state of the options as I see them, sorted from least work for Gittip to most:

  1. Balanced - We are already integrated with them, so the easiest solution from Gittip's pov would be for Balanced to add support for non-US bank accounts. @matin, @mahmoudimus, @jkwade: Do you have any advice for us?
  2. PayPal - See #63. Needs a champion.
  3. BitPay - See #14. Needs a champion. @gasteve is paying attention. Need to solve the recurring issue.
  4. Flattr - See #284. We've started a conversation with them. I'm not sure yet how Flattr's revenue sharing program would interface with Gittip's open company model.
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chadwhitacre commented Sep 8, 2012

Recap So Far

Okay, so here's the state of the options as I see them, sorted from least work for Gittip to most:

  1. Balanced - We are already integrated with them, so the easiest solution from Gittip's pov would be for Balanced to add support for non-US bank accounts. @matin, @mahmoudimus, @jkwade: Do you have any advice for us?
  2. PayPal - See #63. Needs a champion.
  3. BitPay - See #14. Needs a champion. @gasteve is paying attention. Need to solve the recurring issue.
  4. Flattr - See #284. We've started a conversation with them. I'm not sure yet how Flattr's revenue sharing program would interface with Gittip's open company model.
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tito Sep 18, 2012

BrainTree is now open for international payment too: https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international - Do you think that could be a possibility too ?

tito commented Sep 18, 2012

BrainTree is now open for international payment too: https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international - Do you think that could be a possibility too ?

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kangasbros Sep 18, 2012

Accepting the payments worldwide is not the problem (I think that already works), the payouts are... I think that the only good solution to working international payouts is Bitcoin. Converting credit card-billed money to bitcoin is probably huge pain in the ass, but could be possible with some delay (like 1 month).

Payments to countries like India, Pakistan or Iran are never going to work using traditional payment instruments due to strict regulations. I would love to get open source developers from those countries on board.

kangasbros commented Sep 18, 2012

Accepting the payments worldwide is not the problem (I think that already works), the payouts are... I think that the only good solution to working international payouts is Bitcoin. Converting credit card-billed money to bitcoin is probably huge pain in the ass, but could be possible with some delay (like 1 month).

Payments to countries like India, Pakistan or Iran are never going to work using traditional payment instruments due to strict regulations. I would love to get open source developers from those countries on board.

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ghost Sep 18, 2012

@kangasbros: am in. python programmer From India. just went through your github account. any specific ones you're planning to merge with bittip?
Gotta warn, new to bittip bitcoin apis though...

ghost commented Sep 18, 2012

@kangasbros: am in. python programmer From India. just went through your github account. any specific ones you're planning to merge with bittip?
Gotta warn, new to bittip bitcoin apis though...

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chadwhitacre Aug 25, 2014

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Note that if a non-US resident wants to close their Gittip account, that might lead to a loss of all tips to that account.

@rkh We don't allow closing accounts that still have a balance. If sending to a bank account or PayPal isn't an option, then you can still redistribute it as a final gift or contact support@gittip.com to receive a bitcoin payout. In any case you don't need to worry about accidentally losing the money. :-)

Also, since push to card does not need an address, it would solve the US bank account without US address scenario.

Actually, we don't strictly need an address for US bank account payouts either. It's a historical artifact that we require identity verification for bank payouts, and we're looking to relax that requirement in #987.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 25, 2014

Note that if a non-US resident wants to close their Gittip account, that might lead to a loss of all tips to that account.

@rkh We don't allow closing accounts that still have a balance. If sending to a bank account or PayPal isn't an option, then you can still redistribute it as a final gift or contact support@gittip.com to receive a bitcoin payout. In any case you don't need to worry about accidentally losing the money. :-)

Also, since push to card does not need an address, it would solve the US bank account without US address scenario.

Actually, we don't strictly need an address for US bank account payouts either. It's a historical artifact that we require identity verification for bank payouts, and we're looking to relax that requirement in #987.

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chadwhitacre Aug 25, 2014

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It would also be great if there was a wiki page for this, that summarised the issue, progress, and options.

This ticket is the best place for info. The description has a summary of our current status.

As right now the gittip website links to several different places for information about this.

Can you be more specific?

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 25, 2014

It would also be great if there was a wiki page for this, that summarised the issue, progress, and options.

This ticket is the best place for info. The description has a summary of our current status.

As right now the gittip website links to several different places for information about this.

Can you be more specific?

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chadwhitacre Aug 25, 2014

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What is the hold up when a combination of solutions can work for everyone?

Developer and management time. :-)

How can this be sped up?

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

What is the point of waiting implementing individual solutions?

What do you mean by "individual solutions"?

Summary of the different options in a wiki, their options and considerations, and steps to implement them

As mentioned, options are in the description, with links to tickets where each is discussed further. I've made a new ticket for exploring the Stripe option: #2680.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 25, 2014

What is the hold up when a combination of solutions can work for everyone?

Developer and management time. :-)

How can this be sped up?

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

What is the point of waiting implementing individual solutions?

What do you mean by "individual solutions"?

Summary of the different options in a wiki, their options and considerations, and steps to implement them

As mentioned, options are in the description, with links to tickets where each is discussed further. I've made a new ticket for exploring the Stripe option: #2680.

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chadwhitacre Aug 25, 2014

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Please note that I've taken the liberty to send them the following email

@mvdkleijn Thanks for taking initiative! :D

The lack of an API and their pricing structure indicate to me that Transferwise is a consumer product and isn't really set up for whitelabel usage. We're going to hear the same thing from them that we heard from Stripe back in the day (and more recently Venmo): our terms of service don't allow for third-party usage. TransferWise is great if you want to send money to a friend, but it doubt it will work for sending money to someone through Gittip. Let us know if you discover differently. :-)

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 25, 2014

Please note that I've taken the liberty to send them the following email

@mvdkleijn Thanks for taking initiative! :D

The lack of an API and their pricing structure indicate to me that Transferwise is a consumer product and isn't really set up for whitelabel usage. We're going to hear the same thing from them that we heard from Stripe back in the day (and more recently Venmo): our terms of service don't allow for third-party usage. TransferWise is great if you want to send money to a friend, but it doubt it will work for sending money to someone through Gittip. Let us know if you discover differently. :-)

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Heard back from Transferwise and it would suggest @whit537 is right unfortunately...

TransferWise Support wrote:
Hey Martijn,

I had a peak at the Gittip link you provided, however I was afraid the information would get lost in the conversations as there was a long wall of text there. So I decided to respond to you on the email here instead. I hope that's okay with you.

In terms of API, then it is not something we offer as of yet. It's been requested quite many times before, however due to the way our system is set up, then it takes a lot of development time to still get there.

Regarding a different rate structure, then we always use the mid-market rate to convert the funds for you. When converting though the mid-market, then you can be sure that you are always getting the best possible rate, the same rate is applied to both payments big and small. So the amount you send won't result in a worse or better rate.

When sending multiple payments, then you would need to set up a payment order for each recipient, but it's perfectly fine to send in the deposit in a single larger sum. We will split the deposit between your payment orders and you'll be good to go.

I hope this helped provide some clarity, but should you have additional questions for us, then please let me know and I'll be happy to help.

All the best!

Mihkel Stint ⁞ TransferWise Customer Support

An API seems to be in the works though it'll take a lot of development time to still get there as they say...

The lack of proper international payouts is bothering me more and more... especially since there appear to be several possible avenues but no action on them. For me at least its also keeping me from advising people to use Gittip. (eurgh... Gratipay)

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mvdkleijn commented Sep 1, 2014

Heard back from Transferwise and it would suggest @whit537 is right unfortunately...

TransferWise Support wrote:
Hey Martijn,

I had a peak at the Gittip link you provided, however I was afraid the information would get lost in the conversations as there was a long wall of text there. So I decided to respond to you on the email here instead. I hope that's okay with you.

In terms of API, then it is not something we offer as of yet. It's been requested quite many times before, however due to the way our system is set up, then it takes a lot of development time to still get there.

Regarding a different rate structure, then we always use the mid-market rate to convert the funds for you. When converting though the mid-market, then you can be sure that you are always getting the best possible rate, the same rate is applied to both payments big and small. So the amount you send won't result in a worse or better rate.

When sending multiple payments, then you would need to set up a payment order for each recipient, but it's perfectly fine to send in the deposit in a single larger sum. We will split the deposit between your payment orders and you'll be good to go.

I hope this helped provide some clarity, but should you have additional questions for us, then please let me know and I'll be happy to help.

All the best!

Mihkel Stint ⁞ TransferWise Customer Support

An API seems to be in the works though it'll take a lot of development time to still get there as they say...

The lack of proper international payouts is bothering me more and more... especially since there appear to be several possible avenues but no action on them. For me at least its also keeping me from advising people to use Gittip. (eurgh... Gratipay)

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mvdkleijn Sep 1, 2014

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@whit537

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

Why is it a prerequisite? A solution could auto-convert funds on the fly. Maybe not ideal in terms of getting the most bang out of your Euro / Dollar / whatever... but would be a lot simpler.

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mvdkleijn commented Sep 1, 2014

@whit537

Give us a PR to add multi-currency support. That's a pre-req regardless of the solution we go with.

Why is it a prerequisite? A solution could auto-convert funds on the fly. Maybe not ideal in terms of getting the most bang out of your Euro / Dollar / whatever... but would be a lot simpler.

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chadwhitacre Sep 4, 2014

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@mvdkleijn Yeah, I guess you're right. If we escrow in USD only then we don't need multi-currency support in the database. Sure seems like escrowing in USD only is not going to be ultimately satisfactory, though.

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 4, 2014

@mvdkleijn Yeah, I guess you're right. If we escrow in USD only then we don't need multi-currency support in the database. Sure seems like escrowing in USD only is not going to be ultimately satisfactory, though.

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@whit537 I suggest international payouts is made the top priority since a lot of people are waiting for it.

It'd also give gratipay a scoop / edge over competition since I believe that no one else has "native" international payouts. (Non paypal etc)

Escrowing only in US dollars is suboptimal, I agree, but I respectfully suggest getting the feature out there now is more important than having it optimized. We can always optimize the feature at a later date. (Ie escrow in more than justvus dollars)

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mvdkleijn commented Sep 4, 2014

@whit537 I suggest international payouts is made the top priority since a lot of people are waiting for it.

It'd also give gratipay a scoop / edge over competition since I believe that no one else has "native" international payouts. (Non paypal etc)

Escrowing only in US dollars is suboptimal, I agree, but I respectfully suggest getting the feature out there now is more important than having it optimized. We can always optimize the feature at a later date. (Ie escrow in more than justvus dollars)

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chadwhitacre Sep 4, 2014

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@mvdkleijn We already have suboptimal non-U.S. payouts, via PayPal and bitcoin. Of the options (listed in the description), Balanced and Stripe aren't under our control. We can't really do more to make either of them move faster than they are (though the fact that neither of them has really solved this either yet should be an indication of how hard this is).

That leaves MangoPay and Trans-Pay. I'm currently pursuing the Trans-Pay + Jumio option (#417 + #2449), because that would take us into almost all countries, whereas MangoPay (#891) only gets us into Europe.

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 4, 2014

@mvdkleijn We already have suboptimal non-U.S. payouts, via PayPal and bitcoin. Of the options (listed in the description), Balanced and Stripe aren't under our control. We can't really do more to make either of them move faster than they are (though the fact that neither of them has really solved this either yet should be an indication of how hard this is).

That leaves MangoPay and Trans-Pay. I'm currently pursuing the Trans-Pay + Jumio option (#417 + #2449), because that would take us into almost all countries, whereas MangoPay (#891) only gets us into Europe.

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balupton Sep 23, 2014

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What are the exact fees associated with the paypal option? Paypal lists a fair few fees:
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

I also assume there will be currency conversion fees on top of this perhaps?


Knowing the BTC exchange rate that is used would also be great.

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balupton commented Sep 23, 2014

What are the exact fees associated with the paypal option? Paypal lists a fair few fees:
https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

I also assume there will be currency conversion fees on top of this perhaps?


Knowing the BTC exchange rate that is used would also be great.

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patcon Sep 23, 2014

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@balupton If I'm reading you correctly, and you're wondering why PayPal isn't the solution here: PayPal is suboptimal not on account of the fees, but rather because they won't underwrite Gratipay's model. We've only been permitted to use them by slipping under the radar, which has only been possible by making PayPal's usage a somewhat unwieldy manual effort :)

(Correct me if I'm wrong though, folks)

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patcon commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton If I'm reading you correctly, and you're wondering why PayPal isn't the solution here: PayPal is suboptimal not on account of the fees, but rather because they won't underwrite Gratipay's model. We've only been permitted to use them by slipping under the radar, which has only been possible by making PayPal's usage a somewhat unwieldy manual effort :)

(Correct me if I'm wrong though, folks)

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chadwhitacre Sep 23, 2014

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@balupton PayPal's fee is 2% (fee capped at $20), and Coinbase's fee is 1% + 15¢ (these are on the FAQ, btw). I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton PayPal's fee is 2% (fee capped at $20), and Coinbase's fee is 1% + 15¢ (these are on the FAQ, btw). I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

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bjorn Sep 23, 2014

I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

That probably depends on the country. In Netherlands it is free to withdraw from PayPal for example.

I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

bjorn commented Sep 23, 2014

I do hear that withdrawing from PayPal to your bank involves additional fees, but I can't speak to the specifics of that.

That probably depends on the country. In Netherlands it is free to withdraw from PayPal for example.

I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

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I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

@bjorn Yeah, that hits after the 2% fee. If you look on your Gratipay history page you should see the PayPal fee that hits on our side.

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 23, 2014

I'm a bit surprised to read that PayPal's fee is just 2% though. Due to receiving donations I guess I have been classified as business user and am being charged 3,4% + €0,35 on them. Maybe this also depends on the country...

@bjorn Yeah, that hits after the 2% fee. If you look on your Gratipay history page you should see the PayPal fee that hits on our side.

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bjorn Sep 23, 2014

@whit537 Ouch, so that sums up to over 5% in fees. I didn't request any PayPal withdrawal yet so far, but when I'd ever have significant amount of funds to withdraw I'll certainly go for the Bitcoin option instead.

bjorn commented Sep 23, 2014

@whit537 Ouch, so that sums up to over 5% in fees. I didn't request any PayPal withdrawal yet so far, but when I'd ever have significant amount of funds to withdraw I'll certainly go for the Bitcoin option instead.

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balupton Sep 23, 2014

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@bjorn good to know, I suspected that the 2% was likely only gratipay's side, and that the standard receiver fees as linked in that link I did also applied. It is pretty costly form of withdrawal.

Gratipay, how about the bitcoin exchange rate?

@patcon Just trying to figure out which method provides the maximum return on the lump that I have in Gratipay, anything less would be a waste.

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balupton commented Sep 23, 2014

@bjorn good to know, I suspected that the 2% was likely only gratipay's side, and that the standard receiver fees as linked in that link I did also applied. It is pretty costly form of withdrawal.

Gratipay, how about the bitcoin exchange rate?

@patcon Just trying to figure out which method provides the maximum return on the lump that I have in Gratipay, anything less would be a waste.

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@balupton We are using Coinbase for our bitcoin wallet, and their fee is 1% + 15¢ (as mentioned above and on the FAQ), which, as usual, we pass through to you with no markup. Assuming you have your own wallet, this should be a more reasonably-priced option.

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 23, 2014

@balupton We are using Coinbase for our bitcoin wallet, and their fee is 1% + 15¢ (as mentioned above and on the FAQ), which, as usual, we pass through to you with no markup. Assuming you have your own wallet, this should be a more reasonably-priced option.

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chadwhitacre Dec 11, 2014

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I just learned about http://www.earthport.com/ via Twitter.

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chadwhitacre commented Dec 11, 2014

I just learned about http://www.earthport.com/ via Twitter.

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balupton Dec 12, 2014

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@whit537 thanks, turns out there is coinjar in australia that allows withdrawels - unfortunately coinbase doesn't

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balupton commented Dec 12, 2014

@whit537 thanks, turns out there is coinjar in australia that allows withdrawels - unfortunately coinbase doesn't

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chadwhitacre Dec 31, 2014

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+1 for Canada from FD1545.

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chadwhitacre commented Dec 31, 2014

+1 for Canada from FD1545.

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antonsviridenko Feb 6, 2015

So, are international SWIFT transfers supported currently or not?

antonsviridenko commented Feb 6, 2015

So, are international SWIFT transfers supported currently or not?

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rohitpaulk commented Feb 20, 2015

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chadwhitacre Aug 9, 2015

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We have upgraded PayPal from a stop-gap to a first-class payout method—in fact, it's now our only payout method (#3567). While not perfect, PayPal does provide more or less global coverage. Therefore, I'm going to take the opportunity to close this old and venerable ticket.

Looking at the other options in the description: the Stripe and MangoPay tickets got closed as part of the Balanced shutdown, because we ended up charting a roll-your-own course instead of using a prefab solution (see #3324 (comment) for discussion). Transpay is still on the table, to be revisited once we have a proper in-house anti-money laundering (AML) program. IAT and SWIFT are also options; those were in the works downstream of #3366, which fell through for (again) lack of AML.

Thanks, everyone! :-)

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 9, 2015

We have upgraded PayPal from a stop-gap to a first-class payout method—in fact, it's now our only payout method (#3567). While not perfect, PayPal does provide more or less global coverage. Therefore, I'm going to take the opportunity to close this old and venerable ticket.

Looking at the other options in the description: the Stripe and MangoPay tickets got closed as part of the Balanced shutdown, because we ended up charting a roll-your-own course instead of using a prefab solution (see #3324 (comment) for discussion). Transpay is still on the table, to be revisited once we have a proper in-house anti-money laundering (AML) program. IAT and SWIFT are also options; those were in the works downstream of #3366, which fell through for (again) lack of AML.

Thanks, everyone! :-)

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chadwhitacre Aug 10, 2015

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(Thanks, fixed.)

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 10, 2015

(Thanks, fixed.)

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