Integrate with Venmo

[seanlinsley]

@simon-weber from Venmo suggested an integration with Gittip in IRC. Let's use this ticket to track any developments towards that.

[simon-weber]

Hack week has begun at Venmo! @thomasboyt, @seanlinsley and I discussed what @whit537 suggested last week plus another idea with on irc just now (discussion link):

1. venmo <-> gittip for funding a balance:
   • this would add Venmo as a source/sink for a Gittip balance.
   • implementation options:
     1. giving Gittip a "business account", similar to how we work with Malaria No More
   • pros:
     • increased user choice around funding
     • (optionally) increased traffic from Venmo feed
2. venmo for one-time payments:
   • previous one-time payment discussion: allow for one-off tips #5
   • this would add something like a "send this user a one-time payment with Venmo" button to profile pages.
   • implementation options:
     1. venmo user --[button in gittip profile]> gittip venmo business account -> gittip user
     2. venmo user --[button in gittip profile]> venmo user
        • note that neither option (technically) requires the sender to have a Gittip account. We could make it required, though.
   • pros:
     • low implementation cost for one-time payments (possibly as a trial for an in-house implementation)
     • more $$ for users
     • (optionally) increased traffic from Venmo feed

What do people think? Together, Thomas and I are comfortable across the stack, and have the entire week to work on this.

[zbynekwinkler]

@simon-weber Are there any plans for venmo to go international? International payouts #126 are one of our most requested feature.

[simon-weber]

@zwn We don't support it currently, but it's something we're actively looking into (especially now that the PayPal deal is closed).

[thomasboyt]

One important detail: paying someone with Venmo does require the sender to have a Venmo account. I think this is fine as long as the copy/messaging is very clearly "Tip with Venmo" and not just a generic "make a one-time payment."

[chadwhitacre]

I don't think we want to go near #5. That's a minefield. Prefunding (#113) is much less fraught, though it would seem odd to add support for that via Venmo without also adding support for that using a CC directly, so I'm seeing scope creep as well there.

Is there a way we can use Venmo within the existing Gittip funding flow? Which is to say, is the payments API instant? Do we have guaranteed money to work with by the end of the API call? If we do, then Venmo can easily fit into Gittip's existing funding flow. Looking at the fees, this partnership would add value to Gittip users who are also Venmo users because they would get free payins if they use their Venmo balance, bank transfer, most debit cards, and cheaper payins even with a credit card (3% * $10 = 30¢ < 2.9% * $10 + 30¢ = 59¢). There could be additional value for users who trust Venmo with their CC info but don' t want to trust Gittip with the same.

That said, I doubt payments API calls are instant, or all instant. Any insight?

[thomasboyt]

Thanks for pointing out the lack of clarity over the speed of the payments API, that should be better-documented & I actually don't immediately know the answer. We'll look more into the payments API tomorrow and how it could work with the existing Gittip flow, & we'll pull in a few people from our API team :)

But while I'm still up tonight, I do want to quickly defend Venmo as a solution to #5. I've been reading through that (rather lengthy) discussion, and a point that stuck out to me:

If you want one-off payments, use PayPal, credit cards, Flattr or any of the other alternatives already around. I don't believe we need yet another one-off payment system. That's the whole reason I'm supporting Gittip at least.

That was @mvdkleijn four months ago, and I actually agree with that.

Venmo could be a standard for "out of system" one-off payments for Gittip. The advantage is that Gittip retains its focus on recurring payments - weekly gifts would still be front and center, with Venmo as an opt-in for recipients who have chosen to enable it by linking their Venmo account and turning on an option.

I'll keep my philosophical views on the matter out of this issue (most of them were gone over by other people before me in #5 anyways :p), but practically, I think Venmo is one of the best possible solutions to the problem, especially if you want to have it be outside of "traditional" Gittip.

And, to be clear, regardless of what we decide on #5, we're definitely still hoping to integrate Venmo with the existing flow :)

[chadwhitacre]

@thomasboyt That's an interesting take on #5, let's pursue it further once we land this ticket (I'm hesitant to stir the pot on #5 right now because it boils over quickly).

[thomasboyt]

+1s on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ballingt/status/421328579863932929

[chadwhitacre]

Deployed!

https://twitter.com/Gittip/status/421704570968870913

[simon-weber]

💖

[simon-weber]

So, hack week is done - we were a hit at demos! - but I'd still be happy to work on this stuff when I've got free time.

How would we like to proceed? Separate issues for discussing specific integration options (eg those in my initial comment)?

[chadwhitacre]

@simon-weber Huzzah! Yes, let's reticket further work.

[chadwhitacre]

Reticketed compliance as #1896.