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allow for one-off tips #5

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chadwhitacre opened this Issue Jun 5, 2012 · 240 comments

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chadwhitacre commented Jun 5, 2012

The essence of Gittip is recurring tips, but once we solidify that I'm open to mixing in one-offs.

The reason recurring tips are important is because my mortgage is recurring and Gittip is about paying my mortgage.

There is a $80 open bounty on this issue. Add to the bounty at Bountysource.

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thiloplanz Jun 14, 2012

Maybe not. The sustained weekly tip seems to be the main differentiator for gittip. The motivation behind it is very good, better not to muddle the message. Since the amounts involved would tend to be bigger, this could also lead to (legal and fraud) problems . You can use Flattr (or PayPal) for one-offs. And I suppose you can even use gittip right now for one-offs by just changing your preferences a week later.

Maybe not. The sustained weekly tip seems to be the main differentiator for gittip. The motivation behind it is very good, better not to muddle the message. Since the amounts involved would tend to be bigger, this could also lead to (legal and fraud) problems . You can use Flattr (or PayPal) for one-offs. And I suppose you can even use gittip right now for one-offs by just changing your preferences a week later.

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chadwhitacre Jun 15, 2012

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Agree, let's ride the "weekly" wave for a while. We can reticket this if/when there is demand.

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chadwhitacre commented Jun 15, 2012

Agree, let's ride the "weekly" wave for a while. We can reticket this if/when there is demand.

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chadwhitacre Jul 24, 2012

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Via HN:

I see no reason why you couldn't just represent the values separately on admin panel... "You are 'earning' $200 a week on GitTip, and also got $50 extra in your tip jar this week."

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chadwhitacre commented Jul 24, 2012

Via HN:

I see no reason why you couldn't just represent the values separately on admin panel... "You are 'earning' $200 a week on GitTip, and also got $50 extra in your tip jar this week."

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felideon Jul 25, 2012

Maybe one way to not break the core recurring model is to implement an "extra tip" feature. So if I commit to $1 a week, every now and then I can tip another dollar (or more) above my current commitment. So it would be more like a base salary + bonus compensation.

Maybe one way to not break the core recurring model is to implement an "extra tip" feature. So if I commit to $1 a week, every now and then I can tip another dollar (or more) above my current commitment. So it would be more like a base salary + bonus compensation.

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chadwhitacre commented Jul 25, 2012

+1

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chadwhitacre Jul 25, 2012

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I like it, @felideon.

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chadwhitacre commented Jul 25, 2012

I like it, @felideon.

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chadwhitacre Jul 25, 2012

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Not sure we want to constrain to people you already tip though. Maybe it's global? If you give at least $10 a week on Gittip you "unlock" one-offs?

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chadwhitacre commented Jul 25, 2012

Not sure we want to constrain to people you already tip though. Maybe it's global? If you give at least $10 a week on Gittip you "unlock" one-offs?

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felideon Jul 25, 2012

That's a good point. I think the bottom line for a developer must be "Can I live off this?" and as long as arbitrary tips don't give a false sense of security then it should be fine.

(Disclaimer: I am not an OSS hacker.)

That's a good point. I think the bottom line for a developer must be "Can I live off this?" and as long as arbitrary tips don't give a false sense of security then it should be fine.

(Disclaimer: I am not an OSS hacker.)

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kn0ll Jul 26, 2012

for what it's worth, i'd imagine recurring tips provide a false sense of security- not one off tips. living off recurring tips would require accepting that at any time, xx% of my living wages could be withdrawn for any or no reason.

with a 1 off tip, there is no expectation other than "here is some money i got, better spend it wisely".

kn0ll commented Jul 26, 2012

for what it's worth, i'd imagine recurring tips provide a false sense of security- not one off tips. living off recurring tips would require accepting that at any time, xx% of my living wages could be withdrawn for any or no reason.

with a 1 off tip, there is no expectation other than "here is some money i got, better spend it wisely".

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felideon Aug 1, 2012

That's a good point @catshirt

felideon commented Aug 1, 2012

That's a good point @catshirt

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chadwhitacre Aug 1, 2012

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living off recurring tips would require accepting that at any time, xx% of my living wages could be withdrawn for any or no reason.

@catshirt The low tip amounts are meant to mitigate against that. It would take a high percentage of people withdrawing support to put you in jeopardy.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 1, 2012

living off recurring tips would require accepting that at any time, xx% of my living wages could be withdrawn for any or no reason.

@catshirt The low tip amounts are meant to mitigate against that. It would take a high percentage of people withdrawing support to put you in jeopardy.

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thiloplanz Aug 4, 2012

Since the amounts involved would tend to be bigger, this could also lead to (legal and fraud) problems

Some ideas to mitigate this:

  • One-off-tips are not instant, but occur during the usual weekly payout. (Until then they can be cancelled or changed)
  • One-off-tips count towards the weekly per-donor maximum amount.
  • One-off-tips follow the same privacy/transparency rules as weekly donations: Receipts are made public, donors stay anonymous.

So in essence, they work just like a weekly payment that you set up one week and cancel the week after that.

Since the amounts involved would tend to be bigger, this could also lead to (legal and fraud) problems

Some ideas to mitigate this:

  • One-off-tips are not instant, but occur during the usual weekly payout. (Until then they can be cancelled or changed)
  • One-off-tips count towards the weekly per-donor maximum amount.
  • One-off-tips follow the same privacy/transparency rules as weekly donations: Receipts are made public, donors stay anonymous.

So in essence, they work just like a weekly payment that you set up one week and cancel the week after that.

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chadwhitacre Aug 10, 2012

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+1 from /r/Anarchism:

Gittip should also add support for non-recurring tips. For one, this is necessary for any system that wishes to subsume the current transactional market economy. Also, with the above model for organizing groups that avoids the problem of capitalist exploitation, one of the main problems with exchange relations -- that it obscures exploitation -- is avoided.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 10, 2012

+1 from /r/Anarchism:

Gittip should also add support for non-recurring tips. For one, this is necessary for any system that wishes to subsume the current transactional market economy. Also, with the above model for organizing groups that avoids the problem of capitalist exploitation, one of the main problems with exchange relations -- that it obscures exploitation -- is avoided.

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chadwhitacre Aug 20, 2012

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We should have a UI for leaving a fixed amount in your Gittip account each week to use to fund one-off tips.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 20, 2012

We should have a UI for leaving a fixed amount in your Gittip account each week to use to fund one-off tips.

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chadwhitacre Aug 24, 2012

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+1 from @danostrowski via Twitter. See his further comments on #255.

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chadwhitacre commented Aug 24, 2012

+1 from @danostrowski via Twitter. See his further comments on #255.

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thiloplanz Sep 9, 2012

The possible cooperation with Flattr (which is all about one-off tips) could also bring interesting options here, see #284.

The possible cooperation with Flattr (which is all about one-off tips) could also bring interesting options here, see #284.

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chadwhitacre Dec 17, 2012

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+1 from @jonsmock via Twitter.

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chadwhitacre commented Dec 17, 2012

+1 from @jonsmock via Twitter.

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jonsmock Dec 17, 2012

Thanks @whit537 - I missed this issue somehow.

I was picturing the situation where someone posts a helpful screencast or article, but they're not the type to post often. Or they helped me on IRC. Or they helped me on Stackoverflow. I may not want to tip them indefinitely, but perhaps I'd tip them $X this week, because it really helped me out or taught me something.

Seems like the problem for Gittip in general is "converting" people into recurring tippers. One-off tips may be a gateway for people, since the commitment is lower, but it's a concrete stepping stone. And I'd imagine at volume, many one-off weekly gittips would become indistinguishable from a single recurring gittip to the receiver. So there'd be a place for both to coexist.

Example: a screencaster posts on a wide array of topics and has a gittip badge on her site. Perhaps she doesn't have a consistent enough thread to illicit many people to consistently support her through recurring tips, but her screencasts are helpful enough that each week many people offer one-off gittips, not necessarily on her current week's post but also on her backlog.

Not pushing the feature, just offering some food for thought :-)

P.S. this is perhaps pie in the sky, but linking Gittip to StackOverflow could be powerful. (I'm sure someone has thought of this before - sorry!)

Edit: I completely understand that the goal is paying the mortgage, as noted at the top :-) Perhaps I should have focused on the gateway part of this thought rather than my example.

Thanks @whit537 - I missed this issue somehow.

I was picturing the situation where someone posts a helpful screencast or article, but they're not the type to post often. Or they helped me on IRC. Or they helped me on Stackoverflow. I may not want to tip them indefinitely, but perhaps I'd tip them $X this week, because it really helped me out or taught me something.

Seems like the problem for Gittip in general is "converting" people into recurring tippers. One-off tips may be a gateway for people, since the commitment is lower, but it's a concrete stepping stone. And I'd imagine at volume, many one-off weekly gittips would become indistinguishable from a single recurring gittip to the receiver. So there'd be a place for both to coexist.

Example: a screencaster posts on a wide array of topics and has a gittip badge on her site. Perhaps she doesn't have a consistent enough thread to illicit many people to consistently support her through recurring tips, but her screencasts are helpful enough that each week many people offer one-off gittips, not necessarily on her current week's post but also on her backlog.

Not pushing the feature, just offering some food for thought :-)

P.S. this is perhaps pie in the sky, but linking Gittip to StackOverflow could be powerful. (I'm sure someone has thought of this before - sorry!)

Edit: I completely understand that the goal is paying the mortgage, as noted at the top :-) Perhaps I should have focused on the gateway part of this thought rather than my example.

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chadwhitacre Dec 20, 2012

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+1 from @jacqueminv via Twitter.

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chadwhitacre commented Dec 20, 2012

+1 from @jacqueminv via Twitter.

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jacqueminv Dec 20, 2012

+1
duplicate but just to show my deep interest in this. Keep going the good work!

+1
duplicate but just to show my deep interest in this. Keep going the good work!

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chadwhitacre Jan 8, 2013

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+1 from @aaronbrethorst via HN.

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chadwhitacre commented Jan 8, 2013

+1 from @aaronbrethorst via HN.

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alexcouper Jan 14, 2013

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+1 to the stackoverflow linking by @jonsmock. Had a similar thought last night and that brought me to this "issue".

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alexcouper commented Jan 14, 2013

+1 to the stackoverflow linking by @jonsmock. Had a similar thought last night and that brought me to this "issue".

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chadwhitacre commented Jan 14, 2013

This would really be powerful in concert with our "Gittip Everywhere" browser extension:

https://github.com/zetaweb/gittip-everywhere
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gittip-everywhere/ffbkkncpfcobpjaolefljnpmianmflig

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joonas Jan 14, 2013

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Some thoughts from a twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/coreyhaines/status/280011881597513729

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joonas commented Jan 14, 2013

Some thoughts from a twitter thread:
https://twitter.com/coreyhaines/status/280011881597513729

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chadwhitacre Jan 30, 2013

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+1 via HN

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chadwhitacre commented Jan 30, 2013

+1 via HN

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+1

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nicksergeant Jan 30, 2013

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+1 from a Gittip contributor :)

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nicksergeant commented Jan 30, 2013

+1 from a Gittip contributor :)

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chadwhitacre commented Jan 30, 2013

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Maxhodges Apr 29, 2015

this ticket is 3 years old ;)

In theory I could just fork this project and add one-time payment right? it's public domain code?

this ticket is 3 years old ;)

In theory I could just fork this project and add one-time payment right? it's public domain code?

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chadwhitacre Apr 29, 2015

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Yes, you could fork. You could also give us a pull request. ;-)

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chadwhitacre commented Apr 29, 2015

Yes, you could fork. You could also give us a pull request. ;-)

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navarr Apr 29, 2015

@Maxhodges You'd probably want to give a PR - I mean, it has an $80 bounty on it ripe for the claiming.

navarr commented Apr 29, 2015

@Maxhodges You'd probably want to give a PR - I mean, it has an $80 bounty on it ripe for the claiming.

@chadwhitacre chadwhitacre referenced this issue in gratipay/inside.gratipay.com Jun 6, 2015

Closed

review new teams for Gratipay 157 #211

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pluma Jun 22, 2015

Just for the tally: I'm withdrawing my +1 as I'm no longer interested in the project.

pluma commented Jun 22, 2015

Just for the tally: I'm withdrawing my +1 as I'm no longer interested in the project.

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tshepang Jun 22, 2015

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I don't think anyone is keeping count, or at least not anymore, given the great desire for this feature.

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tshepang commented Jun 22, 2015

I don't think anyone is keeping count, or at least not anymore, given the great desire for this feature.

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Would be cool if this could be integrated with GitHub, in order to donate after a PR rather than before (https://twitter.com/AntJanus/status/643207755814338561).

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mattbk commented Sep 14, 2015

Would be cool if this could be integrated with GitHub, in order to donate after a PR rather than before (https://twitter.com/AntJanus/status/643207755814338561).

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@mattbk link broken

Erm...Twitter is down right now it seems - My bad!

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kzisme commented Sep 14, 2015

@mattbk link broken

Erm...Twitter is down right now it seems - My bad!

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kzisme Nov 25, 2015

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I know we are currently focusing on Payroll and other things, but are one-off donations still being thought about for the future?

I ask because we had a recent inquiry about that feature on Twitter

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kzisme commented Nov 25, 2015

I know we are currently focusing on Payroll and other things, but are one-off donations still being thought about for the future?

I ask because we had a recent inquiry about that feature on Twitter

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mattbk Nov 25, 2015

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I think it's still on the table, not sure where it fits on the roadmap.

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mattbk commented Nov 25, 2015

I think it's still on the table, not sure where it fits on the roadmap.

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chadwhitacre Nov 25, 2015

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Still on the table from my pov. I think, post-2.0, that we should broaden our payments product to be more full-featured: one-off payments, as well as different recurring options.

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chadwhitacre commented Nov 25, 2015

Still on the table from my pov. I think, post-2.0, that we should broaden our payments product to be more full-featured: one-off payments, as well as different recurring options.

@chadwhitacre chadwhitacre referenced this issue in gratipay/inside.gratipay.com Jan 21, 2016

Closed

Radar 42 #472

@chadwhitacre chadwhitacre removed the ★☆☆ label Mar 4, 2016

@chadwhitacre chadwhitacre added this to the Solve Corporate Sponsorship of Open-Source milestone Apr 9, 2016

@nobodxbodon nobodxbodon referenced this issue in gratipay/inside.gratipay.com Jan 17, 2017

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🗻 Make it easier for companies to fund open source #987

2 of 9 tasks complete

@chadwhitacre chadwhitacre referenced this issue in gratipay/inside.gratipay.com Jan 20, 2017

Closed

user stories of supporting paying to any packages in npm #964

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+1 from http://twitter.com/dchw/status/862681585157406720.

@ levicook I see your Gratipay . . . how do I just make a 1 time donation. lvh.me has helped me debug OAuth flow code quite well.

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mattbk commented May 11, 2017

+1 from http://twitter.com/dchw/status/862681585157406720.

@ levicook I see your Gratipay . . . how do I just make a 1 time donation. lvh.me has helped me debug OAuth flow code quite well.

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chadwhitacre May 17, 2017

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+1 from @HTCode in #4474.

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chadwhitacre commented May 17, 2017

+1 from @HTCode in #4474.

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HTCode May 17, 2017

I think that after so many years, there is enough evidence that the one-off payments feature is useful. I hope that it will be considered soon. Is there any decision taken about this ?

HTCode commented May 17, 2017

I think that after so many years, there is enough evidence that the one-off payments feature is useful. I hope that it will be considered soon. Is there any decision taken about this ?

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chadwhitacre May 17, 2017

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We'll get to it eventually.

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chadwhitacre commented May 17, 2017

We'll get to it eventually.

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chadwhitacre May 19, 2017

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+1 from Danny Spitzberg in private email.

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chadwhitacre commented May 19, 2017

+1 from Danny Spitzberg in private email.

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chadwhitacre Sep 12, 2017

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Calling this done in #4598. 😅

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chadwhitacre commented Sep 12, 2017

Calling this done in #4598. 😅

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chadwhitacre Nov 2, 2017

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Thanks for posting the bounty so long ago, and for the gentle prodding now. However, we have decided that it's time to close down Gratipay, and it wouldn't feel right to claim this bounty in light of that. 🙇

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chadwhitacre commented Nov 2, 2017

Thanks for posting the bounty so long ago, and for the gentle prodding now. However, we have decided that it's time to close down Gratipay, and it wouldn't feel right to claim this bounty in light of that. 🙇

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helmo Nov 3, 2017

Thanks for trying all these years.

PS: I've mailed a request to bountysource to refund this bounty.

helmo commented Nov 3, 2017

Thanks for trying all these years.

PS: I've mailed a request to bountysource to refund this bounty.

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Cervator Nov 3, 2017

Bounties refunded. Sorry to hear the bad news. Sincerely :-(

Cervator commented Nov 3, 2017

Bounties refunded. Sorry to hear the bad news. Sincerely :-(

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