Trouble searching ... zu... in romaji. Broken rōmaji input in search box #714
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Unfortunately, both づ and ず share the same sound in Japanese : zu. Since
the default romanization system in aedict (Hepburn, it's most widely used)
is based on pronunciation rather than uniqueness, it captures both
characters as zu. You can google for wiki hiragana table, you'll see that.
The same goes for ji.
You can also check the kana table built-in in aedict. You can see that to
write づ in Hepburn, you need to use xzu (or du as you discovered - this
comes from Nihon Shiki). You can also check the search query displayed - it
will show the hiragana constructed from romaji and you can check easily
whether the reconstruction was perfect or not.
To remedy this, you have several options :
1. Switch to a different romanization system. Aedict support Nihon Shiki
and kunrei Shiki. You can then consult the aedict kana table on how to
write characters in romaji. For example づ is written as du.
2. Use Hepburn and tend to write xzu or du. The x letter is useful as it
may be also used in other cases, for example xna will force んあ instead of
な, similar goes to nya vs xnya. If you clear the recently viewed entries,
aedict will display more hints regarding this.
Best regards,
Martin
…On Dec 2, 2016 5:48 AM, "bengaskin" ***@***.***> wrote:
To find 続く (つづく) I have to type in rōmaji as: tsudzuku or tsuduku or
tuduku etc.
Trying "tsuzuku" doesn't work, I get the explanation "no results".
It's a bit counter-intuitive. I would expect tsuzuku to work, especially
as this is how aedict itself displays this word in rōmaji(!).
Can you please check rōmaji input is working as expected?
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Thanks for the explanation.
Long rant below, TL;DR: Sincere thanks for the workaround, but the bug
still stands.
Sorry to belabor the point, but it still seems like it's technically
possible to address. Is it not feasible to do a parallel back end search
for all rōmaji instances of zu or ji to check for both ず and づ and for both
じ and ぢ?
If you wanted to change the menu options to allow for instance sloppy
Hepburn input (maybe call this non-strict or "non-strict ji/zu") and strict
Hepburn input (maybe call this "strict ji=じ,di=ぢ,zu=ず,du=づ”).
I'm sure if you think about it there's many different ways you could name
these switches so that they are reasonably self-documenting. Another option
would be strict one-one input or allow ambiguous ji/zu input. I would argue
that non-strict should be the default (for rōmaji input into the search
box).
I didn't know what nihon shiki or kun shiki were exactly, I had to look
them up.
At any rate they don't seem to do what I want, they don't allow tsuzuku
from what I can tell.
I guess what I'm looking for is a permissive version of Hepburn for
_input_, I'm not as worried about output. It seems the way of the world
these days that even Google will offer "did you mean..."-style advice for
any minor typo.
I note that I can already find 料理 in the app by searching for both ryori
(this is common not-great roumaji) or ryouri (which I would consider
better), so it seems you are already implementing some version of many to
one searching.
But despite all of the above, I'd also argue that if the app displays the
roumaji of 続く as tsuzuku in Hepburn mode, to not accept tsuzuku as input in
the search box is undeniably inconsistent and translates as broken for the
user experience.
Please can you at least for now take this on board as a legitimate bug.
...that if you accept o/ou: ryouri and ryori for りょうり, then you should also
accept zu/du for づ.
I'm not so worried about accepting shimbun for しんぶん. I guess the app
doesn't do it, and could, but it's fine as is.
I guess if the app displayed tsuduku or tsudzuku I would feel like it was a
little un-user friendly and strict but at least I would understand that it
doesn't take tsuzuku as input.
But if it displays tsuzuku as output, it _needs_ to accept tsuzuku as input.
Many Thanks
Ben
On Dec 2, 2016 2:25 PM, "Martin Vysny" <notifications@github.com> wrote:
Unfortunately, both づ and ず share the same sound in Japanese : zu. Since
the default romanization system in aedict (Hepburn, it's most widely used)
is based on pronunciation rather than uniqueness, it captures both
characters as zu. You can google for wiki hiragana table, you'll see that.
The same goes for ji.
You can also check the kana table built-in in aedict. You can see that to
write づ in Hepburn, you need to use xzu (or du as you discovered - this
comes from Nihon Shiki). You can also check the search query displayed - it
will show the hiragana constructed from romaji and you can check easily
whether the reconstruction was perfect or not.
To remedy this, you have several options :
1. Switch to a different romanization system. Aedict support Nihon Shiki
and kunrei Shiki. You can then consult the aedict kana table on how to
write characters in romaji. For example づ is written as du.
2. Use Hepburn and tend to write xzu or du. The x letter is useful as it
may be also used in other cases, for example xna will force んあ instead of
な, similar goes to nya vs xnya. If you clear the recently viewed entries,
aedict will display more hints regarding this.
Best regards,
Martin
On Dec 2, 2016 5:48 AM, "bengaskin" ***@***.***> wrote:
To find 続く (つづく) I have to type in rōmaji as: tsudzuku or tsuduku or
tuduku etc.
Trying "tsuzuku" doesn't work, I get the explanation "no results".
It's a bit counter-intuitive. I would expect tsuzuku to work, especially
as this is how aedict itself displays this word in rōmaji(!).
Can you please check rōmaji input is working as expected?
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Actually, it is technically possible, that is true. And you are right, Aedict actually auto-prolongs syllables in some cases: #308 |
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Thanks!
I was also planning on getting back to you about information relating to
Heisig English names. An old logged issue. There's an authoritative
electronic source. I'll reply back to the original thread so you've got the
information but of course up to you whether it's worth looking into and if
so please take your time.
Personally I've been busy with work but also married very early this year
and baby late this year 3 weeks ago. Even still, I might be able to help.
Ben
…On Dec 2, 2016 8:51 PM, "Martin Vysny" ***@***.***> wrote:
Actually, it is technically possible, that is true. And you are right,
Aedict actually auto-prolongs syllables in some cases: #308
<#308>
I'll try to alter the search index so that the tsuzuku entry will be
findable both using つづく and つずく (and thus tsuzuku).
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I have one advice for you. |
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Fixed in Aedict 3.39.28 |
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To find 続く (つづく) I have to type in rōmaji as: tsudzuku or tsuduku or tuduku etc.
Trying "tsuzuku" doesn't work, I get the explanation "no results".
It's a bit counter-intuitive. I would expect tsuzuku to work, especially as this is how aedict itself displays this word in rōmaji(!).
Can you please check rōmaji input is working as expected?
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