Annoying volume announcement in Explorer window

[hozosch]

Steps to reproduce:

1. Place yourself in an explorer window.
2. Change your volume using the volume keys.

Actual behavior:

NVDA will say something. In the case of my German NVDA, it's "Lautstärkepegel". I don't know what that equates to in English.

Expected behavior:

NVDA shouldn't say anything

System configuration

NVDA installed/portable/running from source:

Doesn't matter

NVDA version:

2019.3 beta 1

Windows version:

10.0.18363 workstation, 10 being the only windows version where this occurs

Name and version of other software in use when reproducing the issue:

none

Other information about your system:

Other questions

Does the issue still occur after restarting your PC?

Yes

Have you tried any other versions of NVDA? If so, please report their behaviors.

It doesn't matter really, but yes, 2019.2.1 also does it.

[josephsl]

Hi, caused by UIA notification event. I’m a bit reluctant to revert this, as volume change information is meant to be spoken by screen readers. Please justify as to why we need to silence this. Thanks.

[hozosch]

Why is it doing it in explorer windows only? Can't we just figure out the right volume manually, for instance when the speech speaks, it's too loud, you change the volume and have the speech go on anyway?

[hozosch]

And what about telling the volume percentage instead? That may be something microsoft has to fix. I personally really prefer it to say nothing though. Maybe, for people like me who want to have that silenced, write an addon for it.

[josephsl]

Hi, that’s what used to happen – we didn’t even announce volume level changes. This change came about in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update and later with UIA notification event, and Narrator does announce volume level changes as a result. Until a few months ago NVDA used to announce this information from everywhere, but it was restricted to File Explorer since NVDA 2019.2. Thanks.

[aaclause]

I also find this behavior uncomfortable. When I increase/decrease the volume, I usually have an audio stream (speech synthesizer or multimedia content) and I don't want that the screen reader pollutes my listening with such information.
In my opinion, it must be a configurable thing and not imposed.
Fortunately, it's only in explorer windows now and it doesn't bother me too much anymore.

[hozosch]

Thank you. That's my opinion put into a much more elegant and clear way than I did there.

[josephsl]

Hi,

@LeonarddeR, any thoughts? I'm still really reluctant to revert this completely. There is a reason why we announce UIA notification text - at least we are not doing it from everywhere like Narrator does. Tying this to "report notifications" may provide a solution, but this means people will miss important notifications such as from Store if it is turned off (one workaround then is to create app-specific profiles).

Thanks.

[josephsl]

Hi,

Also, as we are going through one of the most sensitive times in NVDA's history, I think we should defer this issue until sometime in 2020. Personally speaking, I want a more suibstantial justification - for me, saying that "I get anoyed by volume notification changes" won't cut it, especially at a time when the highest of highest of priorities is making sure that when 2019.3 stable version shows up, it is stable. I understand why this change is requested and can see potential benefits from the compromise offered, but I think, at this point, we need to think about livelyhoods of thousands of users who will meet NVDA 2019.3.

Thanks.

[hozosch]

Andre's post had more in it than just "I get annoyed by volume change notifications", and it's exactly how I feel. I can see though that the highest priority is something different now.

[josephsl]

Hi,

At least Andre noted that it is less anoying as it is limited to File Explorer (see #9466). Back when I wrote this for Windows 10 App Essentials add-on (January 2019), volume level notifications were announced from everywhere. It has gone through refinements such as announcing brightness changes, and eventually limiting this announcement to File Explorer and nowhere else.

To give context: volume level announcements were not announced in Version 1809 and earlier because a tooltip was used to convey this information. NVDA didn't announce this because it didn't know how then. In version 1903 and later, UIA notification events are used to announce volume level and brightness level changes, and in upcoming Version 2004, Action Center joins the trend, announcing notification status via this event when it opens. UIA notification events are also employed in redesigned Cortana interface in 2004, and that is why you can hear NVDA announce Cortana's answers (if needed); at the moment it is limited to those using Windows 10 App Essentials add-on. There are other places where the technology used to announce volume level changes when focused on File Explorer is used to convey important information, such as Microsoft Store, Alarms and Clock, EdgeHTML version of Microsoft Edge and what not.

As for priorities, yes, the highest of highest of priorities (at this moment) is NVDA 2019.3 release and stability.

Hope this helps.

Thanks.

[hozosch]

So, if we got rid of that volume level announcement, it would affect all UIA notifications? That's of course not what I want!

[josephsl]

Hi,

At least letting you turn off UIA notifications by unchecking "report notifications" will get rid of volume level announcements AND other notifications in various apps unless you create an app-specific profile for File Explorer where you don't want notifications announced. Be warned: if there are notifications coming from File Explorer, turning off notifications via app-specific profile for File Explorer WILL NOT allow NVDA to announce all sorts of notifications coming from File Explorer, not just volume level announcements as long as you are focused on File Explorer. If that's what you want, and provided that the community is in favor of this change, we can work something out - not until later in 2020, however.

Thanks.

[LeonarddeR]

I'd be unwilling to remove UIA notifications because of them being there for a reason. That they are annoying in some situations is something that Microsoft should fix. Having said that, it seems that JAWS doesn't support them, see jcsteh/osara#198

Having said that, I think that the "Report Notifications" entry in object presentation settings should really disable these notifications if the option is off.

[XLTechie]

In general I agree with @josephsl about all of this, especially the priority. Personally i do not like including it with notifications disablement as has been suggested. In my mind, notifications are passive from the user prospective. In other words, you don't cause notifications, an app or something else does. For volume changes, you are performing an action, and hearing the immediate consequences of that action. It is like command keys, or similar options which have their own silencing checkboxes. The subsystem used to communicate the feedback shouldn't matter, only the end result matters to the end user. So to me, these are not background notifications, they are active responses to actions. Therefore, they should have their own independent method for disablement. Could we possibly play a very short sound, such as the iOS earcon for volume changes? That would provide the indication of volume, but also be short enough and non-verbal enough not to "pollute" other audio streams very much. I would prefer having a "speech", "clicks", or "nothing" type option for this.

[Adriani90]

I agree with @XLTechie. Adding a click sound or something like that should be enough for users to know the current volume they have set up. The percentage of the volume is not that important for the most users. If you are doing audio editing you get the percentage information anyway through your audio editing software.

[josephsl]

Hi,

Now that 2019.3 has been released...

If there is a need from the community to proceed with requested change, I'm willing to take a look at it or mentor someone. For now, UIA notification announcement will depend on "report notifications" checkbox.

Thanks.

[hozosch]

I also agree with @XLTechie about this.But I also noticed when I set my system to dutch for a short while, that it did give the percentage as well. In German, it doesn't do that. Does it do it in English?
Thinking about it, it's something microsoft could change, rather than NVDA. Because some UIA notifications are important indeed. On the other hand, creating a profile is a good option indeed. I can't make up my mind what's the best solution, but I'd still like this to be taken care of in a way anyone is satisfied with.

[Adriani90]

@josephsl would this not be a good easy hint for speech refactor? Instead of announcing percent and volume just to implement a click sound or something like that?

[josephsl]

Hi, it depends on what users think, as click sound may or may not be ideal for certain situations. Thanks. From: Adriani90 <notifications@github.com> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 1:21 PM To: nvaccess/nvda <nvda@noreply.github.com> Cc: Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>; Mention <mention@noreply.github.com> Subject: Re: [nvaccess/nvda] Annoying volume announcement in Explorer window (#10626) @josephsl <https://github.com/josephsl> would this not be a good easy hint for speech refactor? Instead of announcing percent and volume just to implement a click sound or something like that? — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#10626 (comment)> , or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AB4AXEG5Q57RBZ4QWWVF6YDRT3BRBANCNFSM4J2463RQ> .

[hozosch]

Closing this, since I'm so used to it now, and actually, in Windows 11,the translation is better, so it announces the percentage when you do it, so it got more useful.