Web conference notes, 2021.12.16 (MDS Working Group)

Web Conference

MDS Working Group

Every other Thursday at 9am PT / 12pm ET / 6pm CET

Conference Call Info

Zoom Registration Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZAscOmhpjIuHNakPx6CNbACpjUjw1Gsucr4

One tap mobile: +19294362866,,84170989462#,,,,*612987# US (New York) - though we encourage Zoom

Attendees

Note: Attendees register upon entry into the Zoom meeting. An attendee count will be posted here after the meeting:

22 Attendees

Agenda

Main Topics

Modes in MDS
- Review work done by LADOT on taxis in MDS and suggested PR on how they have incorporated that work into MDS based on the WG's collaborative Modes draft document. Presented by Neil and Marie from E&A.
- See PR #735 here
Meetings Dec 23/30 cancelled, but back Jan 6.
OMF announcement, interim executive director

WGSC Meeting Organizers

Host: Sébastien Berthaud, Blue Systems
Facilitator: Michael Schnuerle, OMF
Outreach: Michael Schnuerle
Note taker: Marie Maxham, E&A

Action Items and Decisions

Neil and Michael work to implement micromobility and taxi in feature branch for WG review
Possible new issue for how 'elsewhere' is handled, see comment

Minutes

Notes

Neil presentation
Talk about 'maintenance' as one state that is different between taxis and TNC. States needed by a city could be specified as part of Requirements endpoint for a mode, but that could be hard to code for

Q&A:

William: "elsewhere" can cause a bunch of edge conditions, how are those addressed?
Neil: New trip structure handles much of the missing event info
William: Will you have to poll /events AND /trips to know the state of the vehicle?
Neil: Only if you're trying to get info outside the jurisdiction
William: Could we ditch 'elsewhere' and have out-of-jurisdiction events drop telemetry?
Neil: Possibly!
Michael: Maybe we can collect events that are out-of-jurisdiction-but-not-in-some-other-MDS-jurisdiction, eg for cities that don't abut other cities with programs but are responsible for devices leaving their jurisdictions.
Neil: Maybe the no-telemetry/no-geography events implicitly mean "out of jurisdiction" and we wouldn't need "elsewhere"
Marie: Leaving jurisdiction and entering is also important for cap counting in real time
Michael: Two separate taxi/tnc modes seems like a tricky split, we should try to combine them?
William: we should be optimizing for simplicity of spec over simplicity of implementation, so keeping separate if it makes more sense
Neil: multiple similar modes are pretty easy to implement and give flexibility to similar but different modes
Johnathan I: In NYC, a single "mode" can have multiple statuses. One example is the "green taxi" which is an FHV and can operate like one, but also has a separate set of rules while operating as something else. Complete edge case, but in NYC there are a few like this.
JFH: Potentially related concern with a TNC vehicle that can do both passenger and goods delivery through a single platform.
Michael: could be handled by sending vehicle with same ID in two data feeds/modes, one for goods, one for passengers
Sanjiv: How do passenger counts get managed?
Neil: Currently they do not, because we don't know if taxis and TNCs track this themselves. We can use trip-metadata to collect extra data on a per-jurisdiction basis, as described in the Requirements API.
Alex D: What if a passenger requests a trip but it is never served (like when Neil didn't get his taxi to the airport)? Would we get the request but never associate it with a vehicle?
[didn't get a chance to address this]
Michael: Let's continue the conversation in the PR, I will restructure 2.0 modes PR to extract micro from OMF branch and work with Neil to merge both of our work.
Neil: What's the appetite for TNC in 2.0?
Michael: We are aiming for Taxi + TNC + delivery robots + carshare for 2.0
JFH's last meeting is today
JFH: Farewell, I'm heading back to Boston as Chief of Streets. Angela is the interim director. Keep in touch!
Angela: The community is in good hands! It should be an exciting new year!

Chat log

Me to Everyone (12:04 PM)
https://github.com/openmobilityfoundation/mobility-data-specification/wiki/Web-conference-notes,-2021.12.16-(MDS-Working-Group)
Me to Everyone (12:09 PM)
If you are interested in the squirrel scooter sticker, order here: https://badkneests.com/products/squirrel-on-a-bird-sticker
William Henderson to Everyone (12:10 PM)
Still trying to think of acorny joke to make
Jascha Franklin-Hodge (OMF) to Everyone (12:10 PM)
💥
Me to Everyone (12:10 PM)
William…
Alex Demisch (SFMTA) to Everyone (12:10 PM)
😆
Me to Everyone (12:13 PM)
Thank you Marie for taking notes today!
Marie Maxham to Everyone (12:14 PM)
Lolz so far all I have is “Neil presentation”
Me to Everyone (12:15 PM)
Diagram here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/openmobilityfoundation/mobility-data-specification/bf34e439e35b81e37c4548c1289b8cc9ec6e011b/taxi-state-machine-diagram.svg
William Henderson to Everyone (12:17 PM)
Lots of questions about how PIDO events get handled in the elsewhere state…
William Henderson to Everyone (12:28 PM)
The maintenance state is a really good example of how closely related regulatory reqs are with the concept of a “mode”
Jonathan Internicola to Everyone (12:42 PM)
In NYC, a single “mode” can have multiple statuses. One example is the “green taxi” which is an FHV and can operate like one, but also has a separate set of rules while operating as something else. Complete edge case, but in NYC there are a few like this.
William Henderson to Everyone (12:42 PM)
Wow that’s fascinating and mind exploding
Jascha Franklin-Hodge (OMF) to Everyone (12:44 PM)
Potentially related concern with a TNC vehicle that can do both passenger and goods delivery through a single platform.
Marie Maxham to Everyone (12:44 PM)
Those would be registered as different vehicles in our current proposal
Jascha Franklin-Hodge (OMF) to Everyone (12:45 PM)
True. Wonder if the “green taxi” could be handled similarly.
William Henderson to Everyone (12:45 PM)
I imagine cities would def want to be able to link trips with a single vehicle that span multiple modes (ie TNC + delivery)
Jonathan Internicola to Everyone (12:47 PM)
That would work for the green taxi case as they have both a green taxi permit and an FHV license.
Alex Demisch (SFMTA) to Everyone (12:47 PM)
What if a passenger requests a trip but it is never served (like when Neil didn’t get his taxi to the airport)? Would we get the request but never associate it with a vehicle?
William Henderson to Everyone (12:47 PM)
What about party count?
Matt Davis (Populus, he/him) to Everyone (12:48 PM)
The journey_id and per-trip metadata would help handle different business classes going on at the same time in the same vehicle.
William Henderson to Everyone (12:55 PM)
I like that latter idea Michael. Don’t want the tail to wag the dog
TNC in 2.0: yes