Create an RChain Worldwide Community Forum Service #588
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A couple thoughts, not necessarily critical issues: How does this relate to https://forum.rchain.coop/ ? It will compete, in some ways. Is it important to have both of these? How does it relate to other coop IT infrastructure #428? Clearly there's an emphasis on self-hosting, which I support. But should the hosting migrate to the same platform as the membership website? |
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@ICA3DaR5 what's the status with this? I haven't seen you address Dan's concerns yet, and I'm not sure you intent to proceed with this. I'll close it now (to keep the issue list sanitized), but you can reopen it once you're ready to work on it again! |
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@dckc The forum I am building is a community-driven forum, it will host all efforts of the community. https://forum.rchain.coop/ is very developer centric. Hosting is not an issue, if it's asked I will migrate it to the same platform as the membership website. @pmoorman I am actively working on it. At the moment I am migrating some membership-created content. Temporary domains is: https://rchain.gr/ I'll update the issue later today! |
ghost
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Well, developers are a large part of the RChain community, so if what you're building will host all efforts of the community, it will host developer efforts, and so it will compete with forum.rchain.coop. As to hosting: it's not just a question of what you're willing to do. It's also a question of what existing coop IT staff (including those contracted at pyrofex) are willing to do in the long term. I wonder if they would be happy to host two forums. There's also a question of whether they would happy with whatever technology choices you're making. I encourage you to include them early and often. |
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@dckc IMO there is a need for a forum outside of developers. Domain: https://rchaincommunity.xyz/ |
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What about this bounty program in github?!It works like a forum and it is community driven. I don't think start a new forum would be a good ideas. You have to teach people to learn how to use it and everybody has to take time to learn .It is really redundance. I suggest you can start a new "topic",community in developer forum instead of building one. |
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I wonder if you/we could convince the folks running developer.rchain.coop to use discourse. It's much nicer. |
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I'll agree with @dckc and @will here that we'd probably be better of (especially in terms of maintainance) to improve on what we have, rather than to add new stuff. I agree with @ICA3DaR5 that the current developer forum isn't very welcoming to non-developers. If we can channel our efforts to pursue the suggestions by Dan & Will, that would be awesome (= create new topics in the dev community, and explore changing to Discourse) |
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Nah
…On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 00:09 pmoorman ***@***.***> wrote:
I'll agree with @dckc <https://github.com/dckc> and @will
<https://github.com/will> here that we'd probably be better of
(especially in terms of maintainance) to improve on what we have, rather
than to add new stuff.
I agree with @ICA3DaR5 <https://github.com/ICA3DaR5> that the current
developer forum isn't very welcoming to non-developers. If we can channel
our efforts to pursue the suggestions by Dan & Will, that would be awesome
(= create new topics in the dev community, and explore changing to
Discourse)
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oh, wrong Will! Should have been @zsluedem of course... |
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@zsluedem A forum is much easier to use, especially Discourse. More people have experience using forums than using GitHub. GitHub is developer-oriented by design. @dckc Let me finish this first, make it look nice and include everything I want to include in it, then the next step would be to test it and take suggestions/comments. After that we could talk with the folks running forum.rchain.coop, as you probably have already figured, I am better at doing/creating stuff than negotiating/public relations. |
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@Valentine-Mario I uploaded the video on YouTube as well: https://youtu.be/JyITmbhAGaM |
ghost
assigned Valentine-Mario, ekaterynaboiko91 and jasoncruzzy and unassigned rjl493456442, jasoncruzzy, gsofianidis and casanwugo
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ghost
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The forum is very well organized and loaded with lots of capabilities including voting meetup planning. It is well done. If it is promoted well it could be highly successful. I suggest posting links to specific articles in relevant social media channel to bring people in. |
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@jimscarver The plan for September is to focus on marketing efforts. |
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@ICA3DaR5 I see you resigned from the bounty system effective September 5. I'm sorry to see you go.
Did anything become of that? Is the succession plan clear yet? |
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@ICA3DaR5 put a lot of hard work into the RchainCommunity.xyz and it's an awesome site. Far better than most forums in my opinion. I tried to vote for this project and then all said and done I was unable to vote for it because I don't have the trust rating. Maybe I am just plain old fashioned anti establishment but there are so many inherent flaws in this system that it's no wonder people will continue to drop like flies unless this process is scrapped in it's entirety. Restore the power to the people. Whatever is going on is backwards. |
There is @pavlos1851 as an admin in case I no longer exist. The server is backed up weekly and Discourse backs up everything (settings, posts etc.) daily. I am going to take a few days off and then decide (once I relax a bit, anxiety issues 🙂 ). |
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@tucsonblockchain writes:
I grow weary of your complaints. If you have something constructive to add, please do. If the flaws are inherent, then the system is doomed. Why waste your breath commenting? Why not move on to more worthy pursuits?
Lack of a trust rating (a) doesn't prevent you from voting and (b) is within your power to fix. Complaining isn't likely to help. |
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Grow weary, the system is ripe with flaws and someone needs to hear it. If the general public cannot even figure out how to vote, and people are dropping out as seen, then it's worth the breath. But if you enjoy the current system grow weary of the complaints. We have offered solutions. 1) Delegate - we appointed Andrew B) We offered a review board - Result, was prompt pay. We aren't complaining we are taking action! And if you can't handle the heat because of the inherent flaws, perhaps you should consider our solutions. I think an overwhelming majority can determine that the entire system needs an overhaul. I'm just pointing to the end result, including the guy that built the awesome forum, that you complained about but he apparently is moving on. Some others including myself may as well. Can't say we didn't take action or bring it up before the end result which is obvious. I also want to remind you that I am a paying member and for that reason alone have every right to say what I wish about a flawed system I wish I had known about before I paid the $20. |
Has anyone denied the system has many flaws? Who is it that needs to hear it? I experience it all the time, as do many others. I acknowledge the flaws regularly.
How are those relevant to this issue?
So? So what? I agree that it could get much, much better. But just saying "it needs an overhaul" is just complaining.
Read the bylaws. The $20 entitles you to vote in annual meetings. That's all. It doesn't entitle you to a bounty system that works as well as systems developed by dozens of full-time developers. We're just your peers, putting in evenings and weekends, cobbling something together. |
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Looks like you want to start an argument or got thin skin. If you are cobbling into the wee hours of the weekends and evenings you are building a giant turd. I don't really care about the bylaws. |
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Yes, what we've built so far could fairly be described that way. But pointing it out is just complaining. Tearing down is easy. |
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"How will we measure completion? [Have >=200 registered users on the forum.]" How many are currently registered? I am seeing little to no interaction in this forum. Going forward I would like to see demand assessed prior to beginning work. 200 co-op members should have been pre-registered before breaking ground on a new communication outlet |
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How many are actively using Discord? I would say a base could be arrived at. While there may be some activity there, as it was a requirement of membership, I would say participation is relatively flat, and you have a good point of quantifying, but it's a new forum that just got released. You bring up a good point of going forward, but what about work that has already been done? It's an awesome forum. A good way to quantify results overall is to ask what happens to the creator going forward, or other participants, and then ask yourself why or where did they go? It may be disheartening for creators to work within this realm, let alone garnish support from promoters given specific mechanisms that you bring, but at current state, why would anybody build something subject to vote after the fact? I'd halt all work as well if that were the way of the world. But going forward quantifiable results are a good thing, but perhaps use Discord as a gauge and maybe make it mandatory to join RchainCommunity.xyz if one is going to compare to Discord, for example. I'd be more interested what happened to the creator and why, because that too could be quantified over time, and the results will speak for themselves. What is the hassle factor? What is the end result? And are people and workers for any matter risk adverse if they stand a chance of being voted down or worse, people don't vote, or I've even seen negative votes for work. How do you measure that vs measurable results? Quantifiable results can work both ways. |
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@tucsonblockchain If we have Discord, where everyone already resides, why don't we take advantage of that and improve it, rather than creating ANOTHER outlet. From the outside it looks like we are creating something few people are asking for, after that bounty budget runs out, we make another bounty for another initiative with little community support. Why do I currently despise these initiatives? They are for the sole purpose of making an over-budgeted bounty to make money. There is little to no outreach, and promotion of these projects because that is not what makes bounty hunters money. I will continue to play the bad guy on issues like this because I feel it needs to be done. The number one complaint I see is the confusion of finding information, adding these outlets does not help. |
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Freedom of choice. I prefer RchainCommunity.xyz over Discord. Discord seeems fractionalizing in and of itself. Too many servers. But that's just my perspective. I prefer a forum style vs discord. Too many features the creator put into it that blow Discord away, and he should be rewarded and commended for excellence. |
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@jplepel
43 Users are currently registered. Consider the fact that the development was completed on August 31. I am actively marketing the forum on various other forums/places in Greece and globally.
How can you improve Discord? It's not a self-hosted system, you can't do much with it. Discord - Free Voice and Text Chat for Gamers A text chat software is very different from a forum. A forum is very much like email threads that you can continue communication asynchronously even after weeks - months. Try doing that on Discord with a waterfall of text messages. |
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@tucsonblockchain writes:
They didn't have to. Anybody who starts work before coordinating with guides to be sure the budget is supported by the relevant parts of the coop does so at their own risk. @jplepel writes:
Did those seeking a reward tell you this was their motive? If not, how do you know for certain? If you don't know for certain, you are out of line. You are free to criticize and disagree, but impugning motives is out of line. |
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@dckc Fair, my comment is a bit out of line. I do not know for certain. The lack of follow up marketing and awareness of the products being created leads me to assume participation is not part of the scope. The way I look at a lot of the translations and this forum is that the effort goes away after the product is delivered and the bounty is paid. I'm a numbers guy, so I see products delivered, followed by poor metrics and outreach. After making a forum, the next logical step is getting people using it. Instead, I see another attempt at a media outlet (blog) with a bounty to keep the lights on. It's cyclical. I could be way out of line. I've heard enough people talk poorly about specific bounties and I'm going to speak up. Not looking to take down the program, just think this love for RChain could be harnessed in a better way. |
and others
Last Update: 14/10/2018
Benefit to RChain
RChain Members will greatly benefit from the creation of a worldwide community forum.
On the worldwide community forum, we can share ideas, ask questions, talk about everything we care, things like governance and meetups and perhaps most importantly, get to know each other and grow as a community.
Specifically, the usage of Discourse will help in the creation of an archive of the conversations in the Markdown file format, which is a very versatile file format, in a sense that it allows for easy conversion to multiple other file formats and design styles.
Through the addition of plugins (from the official Disourse plugins repository) we can add very cool features, now and in the future. (these will be added progressively)
Furthermore and perhaps as important, the usage of the RChain Worldwide Community Forum will lower the barrier-to-entry for the majority of people and migrate conversations that should not take place on GitHub (which is a developer centric platform), to it.
Budget and Objective
Estimated Budget of Task: [April: $2500, May: $0, June: $2500, July: $3000, August: $1819]
Estimated Timeline Required to Complete the Task: [200 days]
How will we measure completion? [Have >=200 registered users on the forum.]
The objective is described above in the Benefit to RChain section.
Legal
Task Submitter shall not submit Tasks that will involve RHOC being transacted in any manner that (i) jeopardizes RHOC’s status as a software access token or other relevant and applicable description of the RHOC as an “asset”—not a security— or (2) violates, in any manner, applicable U.S. Securities laws.
Notes
Tasks (Alpha Phase)
Tasks (Beta Phase)
Tasks (Final Phase - Release Candidate)
IOU
Members contributions are tagged accordingly.
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