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153 changes: 153 additions & 0 deletions minutes/2018-09-11.irc.log
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2018-09-11 20:07:17 ~japaric ok, let's start this meeting
2018-09-11 20:07:21 Astro during the past few days rustc nightly hangs indefinitely compiling cortex-m-rt; does anyone experience something similar?
2018-09-11 20:07:37 @adamgreig Astro: https://github.com/rust-embedded/cortex-m-rt/issues/117
2018-09-11 20:07:41 Astro thx
2018-09-11 20:07:48 @adamgreig (it's rustc and fixed in upcoming nightly)
2018-09-11 20:08:08 ~japaric first thing is to remind you that there are two open RFCs waiting for review
2018-09-11 20:08:13 ~japaric they are linked in the paper
2018-09-11 20:08:23 ~japaric the voting majority one and the Cortex-A team one
2018-09-11 20:08:32 * japaric hasn't had a chance at look at either
2018-09-11 20:08:58 ~japaric next we move onto the milestone issues that we didn't cover last week
2018-09-11 20:09:02 hannobraun Cortex-A isn't awaiting review, if I understand correctly. It's more like a draft.
2018-09-11 20:09:07 ~japaric jamesmunns: around?
2018-09-11 20:09:27 hannobraun Well, not awaiting approval, I mean
2018-09-11 20:10:08 ~japaric hannobraun: ack
2018-09-11 20:10:26 ~japaric let's skip issue 1 since jamesmunns is not around
2018-09-11 20:10:38 ~japaric issue 2 I'll tackle this week
2018-09-11 20:11:09 ~japaric issue 3 and 4 shouldn't be too much work if anyone wants to fix the reported issues
2018-09-11 20:11:26 ~japaric otherwise I'll try to get to them this week
2018-09-11 20:12:10 ~japaric for issue 5 we have a PR that turns cortex-m-quickstart into a cargo-generate template
2018-09-11 20:12:20 @therealprof (y)
2018-09-11 20:12:27 ~japaric I'm not sure what's the status for the other arches
2018-09-11 20:12:36 ~japaric I'll ping the other teams on the issue
2018-09-11 20:13:14 ~japaric issues 6 and 7 are about updating the DNS
2018-09-11 20:13:16 awygle i feel confident we don't have any for msp430 at the moment
2018-09-11 20:13:34 ~japaric which should hopefully be fixed this week
2018-09-11 20:14:03 ~japaric the DNS upgrade should happen this week and we'll probably open a formal PR to create an ops team
2018-09-11 20:14:17 ~japaric more details in https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/issues/156
2018-09-11 20:14:46 ~japaric the last item in the backlog is "communicating absences"
2018-09-11 20:14:58 ~japaric this is an idea I got from andre-ritcher
2018-09-11 20:15:16 ~japaric the proposal is to share information about the absences of team members in e.g. a private google calendar
2018-09-11 20:15:48 ~japaric this information could be used to reduce the voting majority threshold since not all members are around
2018-09-11 20:16:21 @adamgreig hmm
2018-09-11 20:16:24 ~japaric and in general it's good to enough if people are not going to be around for extended periods of time, I guess
2018-09-11 20:16:39 @adamgreig i was imagining the voting majority threshold being to adapt to not all members wanting to vote on an issue rather than not being present to do so
2018-09-11 20:16:40 ~japaric thoughts on having something of this sort?
2018-09-11 20:16:45 awygle i see this as interesting but not enormously useful
2018-09-11 20:16:54 @adamgreig if anything i'd want to postpone major votes if someone's been away a bunch and hasn't had time to look at something
2018-09-11 20:17:05 awygle probably most useful for japaric and other "core team" members (idk if we have a formal notion of that or not)
2018-09-11 20:17:11 hannobraun adamgreig: +1
2018-09-11 20:17:43 @therealprof Not a big fan of a private absence calendar.
2018-09-11 20:18:09 @korken89 I get a feeling that this can easily be forgotten
2018-09-11 20:18:41 @adamgreig depending on how we feel about information being semi-public we could just have apologies in issue threads for upcoming meetings
2018-09-11 20:18:54 @adamgreig but that's both public and still of somewhat questionably utility
2018-09-11 20:20:38 ~japaric ok, it seems that the idea doesn't have much approval. We can revisit it later, perhaps when andre-richter is around
2018-09-11 20:21:00 @korken89 :+1
2018-09-11 20:21:18 ~japaric ok, let's resume triaging milestone issues
2018-09-11 20:21:49 ~japaric let's start with issue 9
2018-09-11 20:22:00 ~japaric there was some progress last week: https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/20
2018-09-11 20:22:52 ~japaric I have written content for this section that covers writing an embedded program that runs on QEMU; it then covers how to run the program on hardware
2018-09-11 20:23:04 @theJPster sorry I'm late. Got in late, parcels to collect, dinner to cook...
2018-09-11 20:23:37 * japaric waves theJPster
2018-09-11 20:23:42 * theJPster can't find the etherpad
2018-09-11 20:23:49 ~japaric etherpad is down
2018-09-11 20:23:52 @theJPster :(
2018-09-11 20:23:55 ~japaric theJPster: https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Embedded-WG--AMhRQnCqT0_UrRKlO6PGPW7vAg-5pdv734N8KpxHFMJijuoL
2018-09-11 20:24:32 ~japaric theJPster: currently discussing issue 9
2018-09-11 20:25:05 ~japaric I hope that land that PR this week after the beta comes out
2018-09-11 20:25:30 ~japaric oh, and I forgot to mention but panic_handler will be available in the beta that comes out this week
2018-09-11 20:25:45 ~japaric so you should be able to follow the book using 1.30-beta
2018-09-11 20:26:10 @theJPster yay
2018-09-11 20:26:30 ~japaric I'll also be updating discovery and the embedonomicon this week to work with 1.30-beta
2018-09-11 20:26:51 @korken89 Awesome!
2018-09-11 20:26:56 @adamgreig +1, yay beta
2018-09-11 20:28:04 @adamgreig as i mentioned last meeting i expect to have some time this week to have a crack at (some of) concurrency/tips for C/integration with C chapters, though as before if anyone is keen or interested please shout out and take them
2018-09-11 20:28:05 @therealprof I absolutely love the new #[entry] and #[exception] macros.
2018-09-11 20:28:41 @adamgreig especially shout if you're interested in doing concurrency as it's probably my least comfortable of the topics
2018-09-11 20:28:42 ~japaric re issue 9 / section 2. If you have more suggestions about what else to cover leave comments in https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/4
2018-09-11 20:29:36 ~japaric I think that's it for issue 9
2018-09-11 20:29:38 @therealprof I've converted both my stm32f042 and nrf51 series of crates to use the latest cortex-m-rt stuff. I'm hoping we can land the #[interrupt] macro as well so we have a complete and ergonomic story.
2018-09-11 20:30:05 ~japaric picking back up issue 8, which I skipped
2018-09-11 20:30:18 ~japaric the setup instructions need to be updated
2018-09-11 20:30:33 ~japaric because of the new PR (#20)
2018-09-11 20:30:47 ~japaric they have to cover installing cargo-genarate, using the beta, remove gcc, etc.
2018-09-11 20:31:12 @theJPster :)
2018-09-11 20:31:35 @theJPster can we get cargo-generate pre-packaged in some way? cargo-foo things are a bit of an ass to build
2018-09-11 20:31:41 ~japaric I guess I can do that since the requisites are in my head
2018-09-11 20:31:55 @adamgreig it's sort of a shame cargo-generate requires openssl/cmake be installed i guess
2018-09-11 20:32:01 ~japaric theJPster: last time I head, the plan was to ship cargo-generate as a built-in Cargo command
2018-09-11 20:32:15 @adamgreig that'd be nice
2018-09-11 20:32:29 ~japaric I have also requested to have cargo-add shipped as a built-in Cargo command
2018-09-11 20:33:08 ~japaric cargo-add issue: https://github.com/rust-lang/cargo/issues/5586 if you want make noise
2018-09-11 20:33:43 ~japaric I'll check with the cargo team to see if built-in cargo-generate is going to happen
2018-09-11 20:34:53 ~japaric other than that, issue 8 also has an open PR. I think there's still other stuff to cover in it
2018-09-11 20:35:36 ~japaric I think that's all for issue 8
2018-09-11 20:36:23 ~japaric issue 10, we have to decide what else to cover
2018-09-11 20:36:49 ~japaric I asked on the thread if it would make sense to cover &'static mut T, which is the no-allocator version of Box<T>
2018-09-11 20:37:09 ~japaric no answer yet, so I'll check back later
2018-09-11 20:37:16 @therealprof Re: cargo add-ins. cargo-bloat was recently broken for embedded by a cargo dependency update. Swift reaction of the developer after the report fixed the problem by removing the cargo dependency and another update also made it work for embedded again.
2018-09-11 20:38:46 ~japaric ok, moving on. section 11 saw no progress last week
2018-09-11 20:39:10 ~japaric I won't have time to work on that this week
2018-09-11 20:39:30 ~japaric but adamgreig might be able to do some work this week
2018-09-11 20:39:51 @therealprof It's been hard to keep up with you last week. ;)
2018-09-11 20:40:42 ~japaric therealprof: I'm busy this week so you'll have an easier time
2018-09-11 20:41:22 ~japaric ok, next: issues 12 and 13 are waiting for a PR to be reviewed.
2018-09-11 20:41:35 ~japaric sadly, haven't had a chance to look at it
2018-09-11 20:42:08 @korken89 Same here, I will start helping a lot more actively after the upcoming Monday (heavy deadlines right now)
2018-09-11 20:42:19 ~japaric probably won't have time this week either since I'm prioritizing writing / updating books
2018-09-11 20:42:33 ~japaric so it'd be nice if someone else could take a look
2018-09-11 20:43:08 @therealprof Where's the PR for 12 and 13?
2018-09-11 20:43:27 ~japaric https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/15
2018-09-11 20:43:29 ~japaric therealprof: ^
2018-09-11 20:44:04 @therealprof I'll review it later today.
2018-09-11 20:44:20 ~japaric therealprof: +1
2018-09-11 20:44:22 @korken89 Thanks!
2018-09-11 20:44:37 @therealprof Watched that talk from jamesmunns the other day. That was really a good one.
2018-09-11 20:45:25 ~japaric next: issues 14 and 15 saw no progress last week
2018-09-11 20:45:51 ~japaric adamgreig and somewhere else volunteered to write stuff in the coming weeks, iirc
2018-09-11 20:46:09 @korken89 I was one of the ones volunteering
2018-09-11 20:46:26 ~japaric korken89: for both?
2018-09-11 20:46:35 @adamgreig yep, I should have some time this week to have a go, was going to be looking at the two c sections first and potentially then concurrency but if aynone else wants to do any then please do
2018-09-11 20:46:35 * japaric looks at last week minutes
2018-09-11 20:46:38 @korken89 14
2018-09-11 20:46:45 @korken89 (After Monday :) )
2018-09-11 20:46:53 @adamgreig korken89: i'll start with 15 if you wanna take 14 then :P
2018-09-11 20:47:11 @korken89 adamgreig: Sure!
2018-09-11 20:47:17 @adamgreig though 'tips' is probably quite amenable to a bunch of people contributing
2018-09-11 20:47:45 @korken89 s/Tips/Guidelines
2018-09-11 20:47:53 @korken89 ?
2018-09-11 20:48:02 @adamgreig I guess it will be a mix of both
2018-09-11 20:48:07 @korken89 Probably
2018-09-11 20:48:12 ~japaric members.par_iter().map(write_tips)
2018-09-11 20:48:22 @therealprof :-D
2018-09-11 20:48:22 @korken89 We start writing and see what happens :)
2018-09-11 20:48:26 @adamgreig I expect some amount of "you're used to doing this in C, but in rust you should instead do this because of this"
2018-09-11 20:48:34 @therealprof You forgot to collect. ;)
2018-09-11 20:48:51 ~japaric s/map/for_each/ probably
2018-09-11 20:49:47 ~japaric ok, issue 17
2018-09-11 20:50:10 @korken89 Was there a decision to move it to an ish-WiKi?
2018-09-11 20:50:10 ~japaric the other book about debugging
2018-09-11 20:50:17 ~japaric https://github.com/rust-embedded/new-book
2018-09-11 20:50:22 ~japaric it now has a repo ^
2018-09-11 20:50:41 @korken89 Ahh
2018-09-11 20:50:48 ~japaric if you want to be a collab to that repo ping me
2018-09-11 20:51:26 @korken89 I will probably help there
2018-09-11 20:51:38 @korken89 Ah I was already there, nvm :)
2018-09-11 20:51:40 ~japaric also it needs a better name
2018-09-11 20:52:22 ~japaric but I guess you can bikeshed a name in a GH issue
2018-09-11 20:52:41 @korken89 Rust
2018-09-11 20:52:43 ~japaric last issue is the embedded rust showcase
2018-09-11 20:53:05 ~japaric anyone wants to volunteer to make it happen?
2018-09-11 20:54:28 ~japaric I'll take that as a not yet
2018-09-11 20:54:43 ~japaric ok, any (short) news that you want to share in the last 5 mins?
2018-09-11 20:55:55 @theJPster I'm at Retro Computer Festival this weekend
2018-09-11 20:56:08 @theJPster https://twitter.com/therealjpster/status/1039579088292401160
2018-09-11 20:56:09 @therealprof Guess I fired all my shots too early. ;)
2018-09-11 20:56:13 @theJPster I might take orders for shirts :)
2018-09-11 20:56:33 ~japaric theJPster: cool!
2018-09-11 20:56:33 @theJPster Also, I have like 1,000 cards with all the embedded URLs on the back
2018-09-11 20:56:38 @theJPster so hit me up if you want some
2018-09-11 20:57:30 @theJPster (there's two of that pack you see on the edge of the box)
2018-09-11 20:57:49 @adamgreig aw, I'd come along if I was still in Cambridge. enjoy
2018-09-11 20:59:10 @korken89 Sorry, I have to leave - thanks for today all!
2018-09-11 20:59:36 ~japaric ok, that's all for this meeting. Thank you all for attending. See you next week!
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# Embedded WG

- [Coordination repository](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg)
- [Milestone issues](https://github.com/search?q=org%3Arust-embedded++is%3Aopen+milestone%3Arc1&type=Issues)
- Meetings: Tuesdays 8 PM CEST (UTC+2) - #rust-embedded @ irc.mozilla.org
# Attendance

Write your GH username or IRC handle here!

- japaric
- adamgreig
- posborne
- korken89
- hannobraun
- awygle
- therealprof
- theJPster (was late…)


# Reminders
- [[RFC] Add voting majority RFC](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/pull/206)
- [[RFC] Initial Cortex-A team](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/pull/207)


# Agenda
## Backlog
[ ] 1 [test embedded targets in rust-lang/rust](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/issues/52)

Status: compile tests have landed
Next steps: land link tests and QEMU tests
In charge: sekineh?


[ ] 2 [Discovery: port code to the 2018 edition](https://github.com/rust-embedded/discovery/issues/102)

Status: japaric will implement this week
In charge: japaric


[ ] 3 [embedonomicon: Can you replicate the examples on Windows?](https://github.com/rust-embedded/embedonomicon/issues/8)

Status: problems have been reported
Next steps: follow up and fix the problems
In charge: japaric (?)


[ ] 4 [embedonomicon: Can you replicate the examples on macOS?](https://github.com/rust-embedded/embedonomicon/issues/7)

Status: problems have been reported
Next steps: follow up and fix the problems
In charge: japaric (?)


[ ] 5 [Provide cargo-generate templates](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/issues/146)

Status: Cortex-M is moving. See https://github.com/rust-embedded/cortex-m-quickstart/pull/45
Action: ping msp430 and riscv teams


[ ] 6 discovery: host on discovery.rust-embedded.org

Status: blocked on DNS infra upgrade


[ ] 7 embedonomicon: host on embedonomicon.rust-embedded.org

Status: blocked on DNS infra upgrade


[ ] Communicating absences -- andre-ritcher
## 2018 edition


[ ] 8 [Book: Introduction](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/3)

Next steps:

- Update setup instructions to cover requisites of PR #20 (japaric)
- check with Cargo team if built-in cargo-generate is still going to be a thing (japaric)
- review https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/22


[ ] 9 [Book: Blinking your first LED](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/4)

Status: https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/20
Next steps:

- hopefully land this week
- what else to cover? comment in https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/4


[ ] 1[0 Book section: Dynamic data structures](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/8)

Status:

- covered: alloc collections and statically allocated collections
- maybe cover &’static mut T?


[ ] 1[1 Book section: Concurrency](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/7)

In charge: adamgreig?
Next steps: write something


[ ] 1[2 Book: Portability (e.g. HAL)](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/6)

Status: r? https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/15


[ ] 1[3 Book: Static guarantees (i.e. type state)](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/5)

Status: r? https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/pull/15


[ ] 1[4 Book section: Tips for embedded C / C++ developers](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/9)

In charge: adamgreig, korken89
Next steps: write something


[ ] 15 [Book: Integration with C codebases](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/1)

In charge: adamgreig
Next steps: write something


[ ] 16 Book: Review Outline

Status: blocked


[ ] 1[7 Book? Debugging section](https://github.com/rust-embedded/book/issues/10)

In charge: ryankurte, korken89
Status: new repository now exists https://github.com/rust-embedded/new-book
Next steps: write stuff


[ ] 1[8 Embedded Rust showcase](https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/issues/147)

Status: help wanted