Updated install.rst to make it easier to find official binary downloads.

[PythonCHB]

As discussed on the numpy-users list -- though this is my proposal, I'm not sure there is any consensus that it' s better way to go. But I do think we should make it easy to find the "official" installers one way or another.

[rgommers]

+1 on these additions

edit: the +1 is for explicitly adding the "official binaries" section

edit2: it should be explained that the OS X binaries are only for the matching python.org Python.

[rgommers]

typo "teh"

[pv]

Maybe the numpy and scipy links shouldnt go directly to sf, but to the local download page in numpy and scipy section of the page?

[takluyver]

I agree with @rgommers here - I'm not keen on recommending using pip to install compiled packages.

I also think the 'official binaries' should go further down, in the 'custom' section - the intention of this was to point users to ways of installing the complete scipy stack together, rather than installing things piece by piece. Likewise, Gohlke's page is not a scientific Python distro.

Your instructions for homebrew are incomplete: a user following them will not get pandas, sympy or nose, which are all parts of the Scipy Stack.

[pv]

Agreed, official binaries section can be added, but the custom section is the best place for that.

[PythonCHB]

First sorry about the typos -- you shouldn't have to deal with that. That's
what I get for using the gitHub online editor...

I agree with @rgommers https://github.com/rgommers here - I'm not keen
on recommending using pip to install compiled packages.

Well, pip works just fine IIF you have all the dependencies -- which, I
quite agree, is non-trivial.

I put it in there after adding the brew instructions, as they use
pip....Maybe moe the mention of pip to a Custom/ build from source section.

I also think the 'official binaries' should go further down, in the
'custom' section -

Well, that's where they were, though in a too-subtle way. I put it up there
because we put a lot of effort into binary building -- it seems they
deserve some prominent focus.

the intention of this was to point users to ways of installing the
complete scipy stack together, rather than installing things piece by piece.

OK -- but this has become THE page for new folks (and old) figuring out how
to get numpy and scipy.

As much as I appreciate the work that the distros have done, and know how
useful they are, it should also be easy for someone to figure out how to
plain old get numpy installed -- and it is easy, we just need to point
people to it.

Likewise, Gohlke's page is not a scientific Python distro.

I don't know that "distro" is clearly defined, though yes, there is no one
thing to download. But it is a really great resource, and where I always
point people to for Windows. It serves much the same purpose.

Your instructions for homebrew are incomplete: a user following them will
not get pandas, sympy or nose, which are all parts of the Scipy Stack.

I didn't want to add those, as I'm not sure they'd work -- nose will, but
I'm not sure about the others (haven't tried it). Probably best to remove
that unless/until someone finds the time to do a real install from scratch
test of the instructions. And I had no idea the "scipy stack" had been
clearly defined.

Clearly, I haven't been on the right mailing lists lately, and I appreciate
the advantages of branding and packaging the "scipy stack", but numpy
itself is still a very worthwhile package.

• I hardly write a script without numpy
• I occasionally need a tiny bit of scipy
• I've come to use iPython most of the time
• I occasionally use matplotlib
• I prefer pytest for testing
• I never have used Pandas (OK, I probably should)
• Sympy is really pretty specialized -- never used it.

So I think we shouldn't let numpy get lost in the shuffle of the SciPy
stack -- I really don't like telling people that they need to go and chuck
the python they are using and get a whole new complete distribution, just
to get numpy.

numpy aside, it also does a disservice to the broader usefulness of some of
the other "core" components:

iPython is really wonderful, for instance -- I'm teaching an intro to
Python class (with no numerical component), and I use iPython for all my
demos, and recommend it to my students. But they go to the iPython site,
and it appears that they need to install an entire scientific python
development system to use it -- that is less than ideal. I know, that's a
pull request for the iPython site, but I think it's part of this "scipy
stack distribution" focus that I've suddenly noticed.

Anyway, do what you will with my pull request, but do please make the
"official" downloads more prominent -- intended or not, this is the page
people will find when the want to download numpy.

-Chris

Christopher Barker, PhD

Python Language Consulting

• Teaching
• Scientific Software Development
• Desktop GUI and Web Development
• wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython

[takluyver]

Yes, of course not everyone will use all the components of the Scipy Stack. The idea is to make it like the standard library of scientific Python - so people can share scripts and notebooks assuming that others have a certain set of core libraries. There was a very long discussion on the mailing lists about what packages should be in that set - there were people arguing for fewer than this, and people arguing for many more. But having reached some kind of consensus, I really want to keep it clearly defined: you install the Scipy stack, and this is what you get.

Yes, it's easy to install numpy alone from an official binary (unless you're on Linux, as a large chunk of this community is). But for a lot of people, numpy is just the foundation for a whole load more pieces, which it doesn't make sense to install piece by piece. It was a very conscious decision to promote installing the Stack as a single unit over piecemeal installation of components.

[pv]

For most people, the present install page is the most useful, I believe. If I want to have a colleague to use this stuff, I dont want them to have to hunt several packages and compilers scattered around the web.

If you already have Python installed and don't want to install a second copy, you are an advanced user, and can click the scipy lib download link on the right sidebar. Now, this discussion probably indicates that the sidebar is difficult to see web ux wise...

[PythonCHB]

pv: yes, you often don't want to tel folks to go hunting on the web for everything -- but the way the page is written now, you say: "install these compete distributions, or well, you can do some hihg-powered custom mojo".

The "just point and click to install numpy and scipy" option is too buried.

As discussed on the list -- if someone finds this page, thinking "I want the 'scipy stack' ", then it's fine page. But if someone gets here thinking I just want to add numpy to my current python install, it's confusing and gives what I think is the wrong ipression.

And thanks fo the magic of google, and the way the numpy.org ans scipy.org sites are written -- those users WILL find this page.

[pv]

I'm not arguing against changing the "Custom" heading to "Separate packages" or something like that, I'm just saying that the distros should be on the top.

It seems the amount of fuss is inversely proportional to the bigness of the thing it's about :)

[pv]

Continued in gh-32