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Eastern Invasion #4145
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@ln-zookeeper Have you had a chance to look at this issue? Would you accept patches for the items listed in the OP? |
Feel free to make changes, no need to take them through me (and wait a long time doing so), unless you want input/ideas on a specific issue. Here's some thoughts on a few items, though:
I think some randomization in situations like this is good, but of course the Paladin could for example be randomized between a smaller subset of locations.
Unsurprisingly, the limit was likely added for gameplay and balance. The scenario warrants more of a constant stream of pressure on the player, not a single overwhelming mass of enemies. Of course, the number of castle hexes available for recruitment could be made smaller, too.
Alternatively, you could create the two ogres on the map next to Grug so that they're visible at scenario end. |
Gives the player a hint to explore around the amulet, despite the objectives saying "Get moving quickly", which discourages that in the first playthrough. Part of wesnoth#4145
The scenario is otherwise unwinnable on first attempt. Part of wesnoth#4145
Part of wesnoth#4145
Further improvements are possible. Part of wesnoth#4145
@ln-zookeeper Thanks for the go-ahead. About S4c, honestly, I'm somewhat reluctant to make such changes myself because I don't have any experience in making changes that affect balance. (How does one learn how to balance scenarios?) In the meantime, I've created an initial PR with some of the easier changes: #4420. |
Gives the player a hint to explore around the amulet, despite the objectives saying "Get moving quickly", which discourages that in the first playthrough. Part of wesnoth#4145
Gives the player a hint to explore around the amulet, despite the objectives saying "Get moving quickly", which discourages that in the first playthrough. Part of wesnoth#4145
Gives the player a hint to explore around the amulet, despite the objectives saying "Get moving quickly", which discourages that in the first playthrough. This might also prevent players interpreting the revealed path directly through the trolls as the suggested path through the level. By putting one of the dots in an obvious dead-end, it's less of a surprise that the path shown by the other dots leads to getting trapped between trolls and undead. Part of wesnoth#4145
I'm looking at the history of this, and there seem to be two changes that increase the imbalance between a player doing badly and a player doing well.
@ln-zookeeper and @Asheviere, I don't want to revert your work, particularly not without understanding it. But I don't understand the changes here, and they seem to be the opposite of the usual way for carryover to give diminishing returns to players who are doing well. |
Gives the player a hint to explore around the amulet, despite the objectives saying "Get moving quickly", which discourages that in the first playthrough. This might also prevent players interpreting the revealed path directly through the trolls as the suggested path through the level. By putting one of the dots in an obvious dead-end, it's less of a surprise that the path shown by the other dots leads to getting trapped between trolls and undead. Part of #4145
Don't use [hide_unit], that's not what it's for. Part of wesnoth#4145.
This event shows a warning about recalled units having low / no movement through mountainous terrain. Part of wesnoth#4145
The scenario was otherwise generally unwinnable on the first attempt. Although the extra turns in added in ab900b0 help with that, it's still worth changing to fog instead of shroud. Part of wesnoth#4145
Don't use [hide_unit], that's not what it's for. Part of #4145.
This event shows a warning about recalled units having low / no movement through mountainous terrain. Part of #4145
I gave the player an extra turn to look around (on EASY at least) in #5496, which has been merged
This is a general issue with the Nightblade overall, that can also be seen when trying to use the Nightblade in UMC. I think I did see someone's UMC that provided it with an icon somewhere, though? But, I forget which one...
[...snip...]
I also increased the turn limit greatly in my local edits to the scenario: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/10_Lake_Vrug.diff
I made changes to address this in my local changes, by nerfing the trolls greatly: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/11_Captured.diff |
Who's currently maintaining EI? I note @nemaara modified the original post but doesn't appear to be watching this issue. I can review the apostrophes shortly. |
If you like to you can. I'll review any PR that opens but please do note that I have an ongoing project that aims to replace EI in 1.17. |
Noted, but I reviewed all campaigns, not just Eastern Invasion. |
@nemaara removed the custom TOD schedule in ab900b0; S4c now uses the default schedule.
I dunno, it kinda makes sense to me, but not really in a way that I can put into words...
Could you expand on this one? I agree that Mal Skraat's lines are kind of awkwardly written, but... I can't really decide how to fix them?
Would 62c4f64 and cff9f6e count here? See also #7040, which prompted those commits.
Yeah I remember having trouble with this myself; I solved it in my local collection of diffs by just nerfing all of the troll guards heavily: https://github.com/cooljeanius/wesnoth_mods/blob/master/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/11_Captured.diff (but, for whatever reason, I didn't include that one when I did #5496... I guess because it would've been too intrusive and made some of the dialogue look weird with the Whelp portraits?)
I think ab900b0 and efefcd2 kind of addressed this one. @stevecotton WDYT?
So... I take it this is just a request to adjust Gweddry's line at #L267-L270? |
I don't think so - the main point that I take from that thread is that it needed a lot of foreknowledge that Dacyn would disappear, and when and where he'd reappear in addition to knowing where the trapdoor will be. If there are dialogue changes too then it might already be fixed - I'll need to replay to test.
Yes, or at least, that would fix it. |
Well we've got one post of feedback that seems to think it's fixed now, at least: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=679210#p679210 |
Seems to me this also applies to S17b Weldyn Besieged. In both cases, a hex radius of 3 is defined in:
It's trivial to add a note to both ending scenarios' objectives that 'nearby' is within 3 hexes of Mal-Ravanal, however, I was trying to find a way to use variables so that 3 isn't hard-coded in three separate files. It looks like top-level scenario variables aren't allowed so I left this alone. |
wesnoth/data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/03_An_Unexpected_Appearance.cfg Lines 231 to 234 in ab4759c
This was the only one I found a bit awkward. Can probably just drop the re-entering Wesnoth part. |
I think once #7815 is merged, we can probably close this |
There's a bunch of ASCII quotes
'
that should be changed to typographic quotes’
S2: On the first playthrough a player might not look for the amulet, the objectives say
Get moving quickly.
EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420 unshrouds the village near the amulet. Is that enough?
S4c: The custom tod schedule should be mentioned in dialog or in aab900b0[note]
in the objectivesS4c: In the new map there's a huge luck element about where the Paladin gets placed. The southwestern location is much easier to rescue than the southeastern location.
S4c: the Death Knight has a 20-hex keep but recruits up to 6 units per turn despite having money for more. That doesn't make any sense in-world.
S7a: hide_unit should be replaced with invisibility: Units hidden with [hide_unit] can be selected (GNA #21512) #1357 (comment)- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S7a: side 2 should be hidden until it arrives.- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S7a: During side 1 turn 1, once side 2 is hidden, it'll be obvious in the status table that side 2 is missing. Maybe that's ok.
S7a: when Grug joins the party, there should be dialog or a narrator message informing the player that two more Ogres were added to the recall list as well - EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420 adds a narrator message
S7a: Grug still has
upkeep="full"
after it joins Gweddry (probably due to using[modifications]
in[modify_unit][modifications][effect]apply_to=loyal
, see modify_unit doesn't apply the "loyal" effect #4137, and modify_unit doesn't apply the "loyal" effect #4137 (comment))Bone Knight has no attack icon for the "trample" attack
Orcish Nightslayer has no attack icon for the "kick" attack
S8: has carryover_percentage=40, is that right? It means players who play S7a and don't get Grug pay the carryover tax twice, once at end of S7a and once at end of S8.
I tested with :debug. If I win S7a with Grug I get Grug, two quick resilient Ogres, and 119GP carried over to S9. If I win S7a without Grug and play S8, I five Ogres (one quick) and 66GP carried over to S9. In S8 I flagged only one of the three villages but that wouldn't have made a big difference.
S7a: Grug doesn't get
upkeep="loyal"
when he joins the party - modify_unit doesn't apply the "loyal" effect #4137S10: if at turn 1 you set "Delay Shroud Updates" and recall a cavalry unit, you can't undo the recall. The event where Dacyn warns the player not to recall cavalry needs [allow_undo]. (It would be nice if the engine did this automatically, for every event that displays messages and signposts and so on but doesn't use randomness or ask for input)- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S10: the feedback thread and walkthrough are full of people saying they had to restart the scenario and play it already knowing where the enemy keeps are. Maybe change shroud to fog? That also makes sense in-universe since Dacyn knows the territory.- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S17a: The objective is "Defeat Mal-Ravanal while Dacyn is nearby" but "nearby" should be explained
S7b dialog: "Creatures from the deep, I summon thee to destroy this foe!" - thee is singular- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S3,S9: maybe review the
last breath
/die
dialogs?S11 start dialog: maybe review the start dialog?
S10: It's not clear where the stronghold is. Some dialog upon seeing the stronghold, and/or a map label "Stronghold" on the stronghold's keep, might help.- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S11: Maybe give Gweddry and Owaec red team color in their sprite even while they're side 3 (like Grug and Dacyn in previous scenarios).- in second thought this might be confusing, to have a red unit that the player can't move? Let's forget about this idea.S11: The "Retrieve the stolen gold" and "Release the remaining prisoners" objectives should be presented as optional objectives, shouldn't they?- EI: Miscellaneous small changes #4420S11: when the cells are opened, it can be impossible to maneuver Owaec into a position where the AI has 0% to kill him on the same turn. In my case I had only two Cavalrymen in the eastern cell and Owaec was lvl2 about to advance to lvl3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/231976805987385345/595917593370689537/2019-07-03-093724_865x786_scrot.png
Maybe add a narrator warning "Some scenarios in this campaign are not expected to be winnable on the first time through"? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=644564#p644564 https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=646867#p646867
Maybe reclassify the highest difficulty level as "Difficult" or "Nightmare" instead of just "Challenging"? https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=644869#p644869
Added from @stevecotton https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18640&start=45#p646867 with minor edits:
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