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Full Math Symbols? #250
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Math support for IBM Plex is still on the roadmap. But how many glyphs – out of the thousands of glyphs that are in those blocks – are sufficient for a first release is still being determined. A full Math character set comparable to the likes of STIX easily surpasses 5,000 glyphs. For what kind of purpose would you use a font like this? |
Most of the documents I produce are made in LaTeX. I have found the design choices made in plex to match quite well and so have adopted it as part of my default template. However, a significant irritation comes from the difficulty in finding a good math font to match. What I am hoping to see is sufficient Maths support for a LaTeX package to be produced, and for it to be able to satisfy the range of symbols I use day to day. Of the top of my head, these are the character sets I use most frequently, i.e. the 99% from most used to least.
Total: ~300 characters, but you already have the italic letters and (I think) greek, so 200 ≪ 5,000 so that's good. This is what I'd consider a bare minimum to be potentially viable. In order to actualy be an clear choice though, I'd imagine one would really need all the symbols listed here https://www.caam.rice.edu/~heinken/latex/symbols.pdf which is around 500 symbols. I'm afraid that maths people such as myself seem to really like their symbols, but at least there's a fair bit or re-use that goes on, e.g. with equals sign combined with: dot, dash, strike, two dots in middle, two dots on ends, circle above, triangle above etc. This goes a bit beyond your question "For what kind of purpose would you use a font like this?" but hopefuly it may be of help in working out what glyphs to include. |
Behind schedule on this due to budget constraints and focus on CJK (Chinese, Japanese, Korean). It will certainly be moving into 2020. |
@mjabbink thanks for the update. If you don't mind I have two more questions
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@tecosaur I would not look for this until end of 2020. We are in the middle of CJK and I hope to get this going now in the beginning of Q1 2020. There is a slight chance for sooner but it’s looking slim. |
Ping @inferno986return (#122). |
By the way @mjabbink, with the math symbol set, it would be possible to create a For an example of such a sequence transformation, see https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode. PS: IBM Plex is gorgeous. Great job, everyone involved! |
As mentioned here, APL symbols are now part of this project. It can be tricky to get the various APL symbols to look good together, especially as many are shared with the general mathematical symbols. The below table and samples from IBM's existing APL fonts, Courier APL2 Unicode and APL2 Unicode may be helpful here. Table of related symbols
Courier APL2 UnicodeAPL2 Unicode |
When we get to finally do the math font We can cover APL2. Might be able to phase out project and cover APL2 first, box glyphs (since we’re developing those for Korean release in February 2020), then tackle the rest of the beast. |
I informed the StackExchange:TeX community about the announced 2020 mathematics extension of IBM Plex. The Tex.StackExchange page's focused discussion of existing mathematical fonts may interest developers. Two asides:
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The mathematics extension of IBM Plex should aspire to be a free, open-source (SIL OTF) competitor to the mathematics extension of Microsoft's Cambria, which has already been adopted as the font for ISO manuals. Cambria aspires to replace Times New Roman as the workhorse for printed text, while being more legible for on-screen use. Both Cambria and IBM Plex Serif have distinct and independent designs, so a friendly rivalry should drive improvements in both fonts. Plex's free and open attributes simplify the sharing of documents and code with others, especially for the joint editing of documents when a collaborator may use Macs or UNIX / GNU Linux. For on-screen use, the Plex family is more legible than Cambria, e.g., because of its higher x-height (while Cambria has an x-height that is greater than Times New Roman's but that is less than Microsoft's fonts for on-screen documents (Verdana, Tahoma, and Trebuchet). The Plex family is more coherent than Microsoft's ClearType C-fonts, which were quickly designed. With an excellent Math extension, IBM Plex could become the leading font for on-line scientific and technical documents and for drafting and proof-reading such printed documents. It should also appeal to businesses, schools, universities, and governments for producing documents for on-screen reading. Users of LaTeX may try this invocation of Plex: \setmainfont[ \setmonofont{IBM Plex Mono Text}[Scale=MatchLowercase, |
I really like Plex, but actually, my biggest problem with it, is that it is just too successful in achieving its goal of being "distinctly IBM"; it is too IBM. I don't feel like I can use it for my own generic things because I'll give the false impression of my project being endorsed by IBM! |
Looks like 2021. Need funding. |
@mjabbink I read through the entire ibm.com/plex and noticed:
The accompanying Italic 12 type sample looked remarkably familiar. Turns out I recently created a modern clone of its derivative which includes all APL symbol and (thus) many mathematical symbols. Feel free to use for inspiration/guidance. |
How much? |
@abrudz Cool project and yes it looks like Italic 12. The funding is not small. Doing the entire Math character set we’re looking to achieve is a lot of work and I think we’re doing with the Serif but need to make a decision there (sans or serif?). I lean on serif as use case is typically within white papers and heavy documentation. |
When I think of mathematical fonts, I think of Computer Modern Roman which is the standard of LaTeX. IBM Plex Serif would be a good basis. |
@mjabbink if you don't mind me chiming in:
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Serif is standard in mathematics because readers need instantly to distinguish isolated glyphs, e.g., c from C (without being familiar with e.g., IBM Plex). Earlier, you asked about desiderata for mathematical typography:
Mathematics fonts have been designed for greater legibility under repeated photocopying and under coarse printing and displays and to help readers with visual impairments (e.g., age). Typography designers may find inspiration in these typefaces:
Small caps are used in LaTeX and in the most important LaTeX style files by major mathematical publishers, e.g, the American Mathematical Society (AMS) and the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics (SIAM) --- perhaps unwisely! |
Also useful: Designing Math Fonts, presentation by Johannes Küster of Typoma (he made Minion Math) |
Thanks for all the info @StatisticalProgrammer @tecosaur — We plan on using Plex Serif as the basis but will explore your recommendation for the Sans for Mathematical Operators block (U+2200 – U+22FF) |
It will be an OpenType math font with a |
Btw, this is not going to be a font with serif and sans serif glyphs mixed haphazardly, is it? This shall be a proper sans serif font, like fira sans math, and not the abomination that noto "sans" math is, right? |
Plex Math is based on Plex Serif. Similar to how STIX and Cambria are serif typefaces. |
Thanks for the info. Request: Is it possible to have a true sans serif math typeface, if work has not already started? I can put forth two reasons.
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Work on IBM Plex Math has already been underway since the end of last year. It is intended for a broad usage in scientific and academic papers. To cater in the best way for those applications we decided that a serif font is better suited than sans. |
Just one more thing, is there going to be a bold weight as well, for use in section/chapter titles? |
@apoorvpotnis Plex Math is one weight only (Regular) but Plex Serif has a range of eight weights. |
@mpsmath We will soon have some testing for files and if you’re a willing tester, we would certainly appreciate it. |
I'm happy to test Plex Maths, too! I have a fair few TeX documents that I would really like to re-type in Plex Serif and Plex Maths. |
I can offer assistance for testing as well, by testing on LaTeX. |
@sharadhr @apoorvpotnis Attached find an IBM Plex Math Alpha file. Give it a whirl. |
Does this contain only the glyphs as of now, and not a math table? Because I can see the glyphs in fontforge, but LuaLaTeX (with unicode-math) complains that the font does not contain the requested Script "Math". Thus, no LaTeX typesetting as of now. |
Thank you very much for the post, it looks like there are a lot of nice math glyphs inside. As already mentioned, though, the font posted is lacking the necessary tables to make it into a "real" math font. To add a bit more: Some slots usually come with variants and extensibles. Take the left parenthesis U+0028 for example. As of now I find extensibles (U+239B, U+239C, U+239D). But the base glyph U+0028 does not have a recipe that tells when these should kick in. Also, it will likely look a bit non-optimal if there are no variants that can be chosen step wise, before the extensible kicks in. Once the necessary tables are added and extensible recipes are there, we can start the testing. (If you need help or more ideas regarding variants, extensibles and the many parameters to set, just tell.) |
The APL glyphs should be more consistent:
Here's the raw text:alphas: ⍺ ⍶ arrows-down: ↓ ⍗⍖ arrows-left ← ⍇⍅ arrows-right → ⍈⍆ arrows-up: ↑ ⍐⍏ asterisks: *⍣⍟ ⋆ brackets []⌈⌊⌷ circles: ○⍥⍟⌽⍉⊖ ⍜⊙⌾ colons :⍠÷⌹ commas: ,⍪; ⍮ dashes: -÷⌹⌿⍀⍪ ⍏⍖ dels: ∇⍒⍫⍢ deltas: ∆⍙⍋ ⍍ diamonds: ⋄⌺ ⍚ diereses: ¨⍨⍥⍤⍣ ⍢⍡⍩ epsilons: ∊⍷ equals =≠⌸ iotas ⍳⍸ jots: ∘⍤⍛⍝⍎⍕ ¤⌾ omegas: ⍵ ⍹ quads ⎕⌸⌹⌺ ⌻⌼⍁⍂⍃⍄⍇⍈⍌⍍⍐⍓⍯⍰ shoes-down ∪ ⍦ shoes-left ⊂⊆ ⍧ shoes-right ⊃⊇ shoes-up ∩ ⋔ slashes: /⌿ ⍁% slashes-back: \⍀⍉ ⍂ stiles: |⌽⍒⍋ ∥⍭⍦⍧ tacks-down: ⌶⊤⍕ ⍑⍡ tacks-up: ⌶⊥⍎ ⍊ tildes: ~⍬ ⍭ underscores: _⍙⍷⍛⍸⊆⊇ ⍊⍜⍶⍹⍮⍚⍘ wedges-down ∨⍱ ⍌ wedges-left: <≤ ⍃ wedges-right: >≥ ⍄⍩ wedges-up: ∧⍲ ⍓ |
This is a first Alpha build -- there is no Math table yet. |
@abrudz Thank you for the very valuable feedback. Two questions:
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APL doesn't require special adaption of symbols. Any consistency achievable is nice, but none of this is critical for use. Here are 3 proportional (including Stix) and 3 monospace samples: |
Everyone: here is a new public alpha build of IBM Plex Math. We addressed the comments from @abrudz about the APL glyphs as good as we could. |
Is there a possibility of having regular (non-bold) sans Greek letters, in the private use area, say imported from the sans serif IBM fonts? I ask this since even though Unicode blocks do not have it, they might add it in the future. If there is bold sans serif Greek, why not regular? New Computer Modern, STIX2 and XITS provide these letters. |
Not sure. In my opinion PUA unicodes are a hack, and never a good solution in the long term. It creates portability problems too. And if these glyphs are ever adopted by Unicode then they will get their own codepoints. |
This Beta release compiled my current LaTeX mathematical-file flawlessly (which is based on a SIAM Journal style). Already, IBM Plex Math allows the use of unicode symbols for basic mathematical operators (mathematical Greek, set-membership, black-board bold, etc.) that are still impossible for Latin Modern Math (!). (Without the OpenMATH Table, the previous alpha releases of IBM Plex Math could not even be tested.) Congratulations to the team! |
Thanks for getting this up @BoldMonday. I am also sharing with IBM Research community. |
@mpsmath (Mikael P. Sundqvist) has written recent articles on the development of mathematical typography through LaTeX: TUGBOAT: (The Communications of the TeX Users Group) |
I notice the readme now says
I suppose this means IBM Plex Math is now out of beta? I look forward to testing it in LaTeX! |
Yes it does. Let us know what you think. |
Thanks! Well done! Almost all of the issues reported have been addressed (I realize one does not have to agree with all of them...). I will test the font a bit more and report if I find some problems. |
Hello,
Out of impatience, I see that in 2017 @mjabbink said "Extended Math symbols will come in 2019" and then in 2018 "We will design a version of Plex with full mathematical glyphs next year". Now that it's 2019 I was wondering how much longer we'll have to wait?
Also I'm curious as to how extensive addition will be; specificly, which of the following blocks are planning on being included?
thanks!
tecosaur.
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