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x/website: Remove the Google logo #33021

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noxer opened this issue Jul 10, 2019 · 11 comments

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@noxer
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commented Jul 10, 2019

Go is perceived by some as a pure Google project without community involvement (see https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/GoIsGooglesLanguage). Adding a Google logo does not help in this discussion.

I propose removing the Google logo from the website.

What version of Go are you using (go version)?

The current Go website (https://golang.org)

Does this issue reproduce with the latest release?

Yes

What operating system and processor architecture are you using (go env)?

All of them

What did you do?

Open the website and scroll to the bottom.

What did you expect to see?

No Google logo

What did you see instead?

A Google logo

@gopherbot gopherbot added this to the Unreleased milestone Jul 10, 2019

@ianlancetaylor ianlancetaylor changed the title x/website Remove the Google logo x/website: Remove the Google logo Jul 10, 2019

@andybons

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commented Jul 10, 2019

Thanks for the issue. We spent a long time talking about it and are sensitive to this concern. It's equally important to make it clear that Google supports Go, which was missing before (Much like http://typescriptlang.org). Google pays for and hosts the infrastructure that golang.org runs on and we hope the current very small logo is a decent compromise.

@andybons andybons closed this Jul 10, 2019

@noxer

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commented Jul 10, 2019

I get that you've discussed this internally. This is a great opportunity to discuss it with the community.
I'm thankful to Google for financing the initial and ongoing development of Go but Google is not the only company investing Go. I would like to move the Google logo into an separate section, together will the major stakeholders of the project.

@RandomGuyDTB

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commented Jul 10, 2019

Maybe to the left of the Google logo you could write "Supported by", to clarify the meaning behind the logo?

@painhardcore

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commented Jul 11, 2019

Maybe we even can have the "Supported by" section on the index page with a list of company logos?
Of course, the Google logo should be the biggest one but other companies make their contribution to language too.

@CShepartd

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commented Jul 11, 2019

If Go is Google's language stay with Google logo. If Go is community's language (what i personally don't believe) remove Google logo. Simple? Yes.

@abourget

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commented Jul 12, 2019

If the argument is, according to the linked post, that "the Go team at Google won't add the generics I asked for", therefore we should remove their logo, I think it is a very poor argument.

I personally value tremendously the diligent work made by the Go team to always strive to keep things simple. Resistance is part of this process, yet they have proven that with some patience, we can obtain spectacular results, without sacrificing simplicity (I'm thinking of "go mod" here).

Therefore, I suggest we keep the logo, and keep the trust in the diligent evolution it conveys.

@dataf3l

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commented Jul 12, 2019

Regardless of "whose language it is", (which is a byzantine discussion), I think if Google supported go, they should be able to put their logo on the site, they clearly spent money on it, and then gave it away for free for devs to use, as for "it belong to the community vs it belongs to the corporation", unfortunately, if Google where to drop the language, which I doubt, then it would probably fade away, but I think we are far away from that, I think they will continue to invest in it for many years to come.

@Jacalz

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commented Jul 12, 2019

Yeah I think that the Google logo should remain but I’m in favor of add a text saying supported by just over the Google logo. I would argue that it’s the best way forward.

@timkofu

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commented Jul 12, 2019

Unless there's something I don't know, Google invested senior developer time(hence money) into bringing the language into being, maintaining it and enhancing it into what it is today. They then gave it away for free.

Now the rest of us can write fast efficient programs simply, in a language specially designed for Software Engineering. Personally I'm grateful.

@noxer

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commented Jul 12, 2019

If the argument is, according to the linked post, that "the Go team at Google won't add the generics I asked for", therefore we should remove their logo, I think it is a very poor argument.

That is not the argument, where did you get this from?

There seems to be a misconception about what this issue is about. I value Google's participation in Go and I'm not arguing to change that. Having the Google logo in the corner of each golang.org page suggests that this is a pure Google project when it is not (this is why I linked the article, not to make some weird argument about generics).

Google pays for and hosts the infrastructure that golang.org runs on and we hope the current very small logo is a decent compromise.

I think if Google supported go, they should be able to put their logo on the site

Unless there's something I don't know, Google invested senior developer time(hence money) into bringing the language into being, maintaining it and enhancing it into what it is today. They then gave it away for free.

AFAIK Google hosts and supports Android (https://www.android.com/) and Dart (https://dart.dev/) without putting their logo on every page. Compare the commercial products of Google (https://www.google.com/) and Google Docs (https://docs.google.com, in the hamburger menu) which feature the logo fairly prominently.

Why is Go special with regard to the omnipresence of the Google logo?

@ALTree

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commented Jul 12, 2019

Just a reminder that this issue is closed, and closed issues are not monitored, and certainly are not a good place to keep a discussion going.

I believe the answer that @andybons gave in #33021 (comment) is, like it or not, the "official" one; so the logo will probably stay.

I encourage anyone that wants to keep discussing this to move the discussion on the golang-nuts mailing list, or some other Go forum. Thanks!

@golang golang locked as resolved and limited conversation to collaborators Jul 12, 2019

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