This repository has been archived by the owner. It is now read-only.

Removed use of gendered pronoun #1015

Closed
wants to merge 2 commits into
from

Conversation

Projects
None yet
@alex
Contributor

alex commented Nov 29, 2013

No description provided.

@Nodejs-Jenkins

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@Nodejs-Jenkins

Nodejs-Jenkins Nov 29, 2013

Thank you for contributing this pull request! Here are a few pointers to make sure your submission will be considered for inclusion.

Commit alex/libuv@1ff9d18 has the following error(s):

  • Commit message must indicate the subsystem this commit changes

The following commiters were not found in the CLA:

  • Alex Gaynor

You can fix all these things without opening another issue.

Please see CONTRIBUTING.md for more information

Thank you for contributing this pull request! Here are a few pointers to make sure your submission will be considered for inclusion.

Commit alex/libuv@1ff9d18 has the following error(s):

  • Commit message must indicate the subsystem this commit changes

The following commiters were not found in the CLA:

  • Alex Gaynor

You can fix all these things without opening another issue.

Please see CONTRIBUTING.md for more information

@sam-github

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@sam-github

sam-github Nov 29, 2013

A single "user" isn't a plural "them". This seems not so important, but would be better "to top sending it twice"

A single "user" isn't a plural "them". This seems not so important, but would be better "to top sending it twice"

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@postmodern

postmodern Nov 29, 2013

@sam-github "one" is the singular pronoun you are looking for.

@sam-github "one" is the singular pronoun you are looking for.

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@dbb

dbb Nov 30, 2013

"They" has been used in singular form for centuries, and it is still in widespread use today-- probably much more common than "one" except in formal contexts. I think prescription against it in program documentation is unwarranted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

dbb replied Nov 30, 2013

"They" has been used in singular form for centuries, and it is still in widespread use today-- probably much more common than "one" except in formal contexts. I think prescription against it in program documentation is unwarranted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@zedshaw

zedshaw Nov 30, 2013

Why not:

The nsent value is returned so the caller can avoid sending it twice.
If you get nsent, then you know data was sent and you can avoid sending it twice.
This tells the caller that the data was sent to avoid double sends.

This is assuming I'm understanding what this thing does at all, either way I think it can be rewritten clearer to just avoid the whole sentence structure at all by changing the writing style to be instructional ("You get blah blah if you see blah blah.") rather than formal ("One gets blah blah if one sees blah blah").

Why not:

The nsent value is returned so the caller can avoid sending it twice.
If you get nsent, then you know data was sent and you can avoid sending it twice.
This tells the caller that the data was sent to avoid double sends.

This is assuming I'm understanding what this thing does at all, either way I think it can be rewritten clearer to just avoid the whole sentence structure at all by changing the writing style to be instructional ("You get blah blah if you see blah blah.") rather than formal ("One gets blah blah if one sees blah blah").

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@IreneKnapp

IreneKnapp Nov 30, 2013

Hi, I'm kibitzing. I have nothing to do with this project and really have no business commenting on it.

With that out of the way...

There are strong reasons to avoid gendered pronouns. It seems as though that point has been made already here. I am personally an advocate of singular-they, because language usage is a moving target, and we have to skate to where the puck will be, not where it is now. To many speakers who were educated by the "English is just a different vocabulary for Latin" theory, it sounds wrong. But all the elegant solutions to the grammatical problem (Spivak pronouns are a runner-up) run afoul of that, and this one is simply reverting to an earlier version which has already been shown not to cause significant linguistic friction elsewhere.

To use "one" does really sound very formal and off-putting, and many readers have difficulty making sense of it.

"You" is an option as well, but in this example there are multiple people in context - the ideal user; the reader of the comment; the implementor who wrote it. "You" would probably mean the reader, who is likely a programmer as well, not really a typical end-user.

Rewording without a pronoun at all is an option, but kind of awkward here. It's probably my second choice for this situation after singular-they.

I leave you with a Douglas Hofstadter satire essay... http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html

Hi, I'm kibitzing. I have nothing to do with this project and really have no business commenting on it.

With that out of the way...

There are strong reasons to avoid gendered pronouns. It seems as though that point has been made already here. I am personally an advocate of singular-they, because language usage is a moving target, and we have to skate to where the puck will be, not where it is now. To many speakers who were educated by the "English is just a different vocabulary for Latin" theory, it sounds wrong. But all the elegant solutions to the grammatical problem (Spivak pronouns are a runner-up) run afoul of that, and this one is simply reverting to an earlier version which has already been shown not to cause significant linguistic friction elsewhere.

To use "one" does really sound very formal and off-putting, and many readers have difficulty making sense of it.

"You" is an option as well, but in this example there are multiple people in context - the ideal user; the reader of the comment; the implementor who wrote it. "You" would probably mean the reader, who is likely a programmer as well, not really a typical end-user.

Rewording without a pronoun at all is an option, but kind of awkward here. It's probably my second choice for this situation after singular-they.

I leave you with a Douglas Hofstadter satire essay... http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@fgc

fgc Nov 30, 2013

In fact a more impersonal comment style might promote better thinking. After all, by the time all this matters, no humans are involved: the runtime won't return nsent to you, me, him, her or they. "It" is up for debate. Read your Dijkstra, think clearer and avoid controversy:

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD09xx/EWD936.html
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd08xx/EWD854.PDF

fgc replied Nov 30, 2013

In fact a more impersonal comment style might promote better thinking. After all, by the time all this matters, no humans are involved: the runtime won't return nsent to you, me, him, her or they. "It" is up for debate. Read your Dijkstra, think clearer and avoid controversy:

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD09xx/EWD936.html
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd08xx/EWD854.PDF

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@dogweather

dogweather Dec 1, 2013

The original docs aren't idiomatic English; this sentence reads oddly and the "him" is out of place. It gives the impression that it wasn't written by someone with English as their first language.

"The user needs to know that some data has already been sent, to stop him from sending it twice."

The original docs aren't idiomatic English; this sentence reads oddly and the "him" is out of place. It gives the impression that it wasn't written by someone with English as their first language.

"The user needs to know that some data has already been sent, to stop him from sending it twice."

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@anklos

anklos Dec 5, 2013

Could you please also submit a pull request to Oxford dictionary for changing the word "history" to "theirstory"?

Could you please also submit a pull request to Oxford dictionary for changing the word "history" to "theirstory"?

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@anklos

anklos Dec 5, 2013

Plus please suggest the dictionary editors to change all the 'he/him' in the sample sentences to 'they'.

Plus please suggest the dictionary editors to change all the 'he/him' in the sample sentences to 'they'.

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@mehabox

mehabox May 28, 2014

Mangina attack!

Mangina attack!

@alex

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@alex

alex Nov 29, 2013

Contributor

They/them can absolutely be used as an ungendered singular. Further, even if they couldn't, that concern would be trumped by the fact that using gendered language is hostile.

Contributor

alex commented Nov 29, 2013

They/them can absolutely be used as an ungendered singular. Further, even if they couldn't, that concern would be trumped by the fact that using gendered language is hostile.

@jfhbrook

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jfhbrook

jfhbrook Nov 29, 2013

Rule 1 of writing: Throw your Strunk & White into the ocean immediately.

Rule 1 of writing: Throw your Strunk & White into the ocean immediately.

@alex

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@alex

alex Nov 29, 2013

Contributor

I've now submitted a CLA, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to put in the subsystem part of the commit. Can anyone make a suggestion?

Contributor

alex commented Nov 29, 2013

I've now submitted a CLA, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to put in the subsystem part of the commit. Can anyone make a suggestion?

@bnoordhuis

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@bnoordhuis

bnoordhuis Nov 29, 2013

Contributor

Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that.

Contributor

bnoordhuis commented Nov 29, 2013

Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that.

@bnoordhuis bnoordhuis closed this Nov 29, 2013

@coderanger

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@coderanger

coderanger Nov 29, 2013

+1 for merging this change.

+1 for merging this change.

@alex

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@alex

alex Nov 29, 2013

Contributor

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really see why you wouldn't merge it if it's so trivial though. Surely making the library less hostile is worth a few seconds of our time to press the "merge" button?

Contributor

alex commented Nov 29, 2013

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't really see why you wouldn't merge it if it's so trivial though. Surely making the library less hostile is worth a few seconds of our time to press the "merge" button?

@rdodev

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@rdodev

rdodev Nov 29, 2013

Glad this didn't go through. The White Knights of tech are getting a bit over their heads on this. One thing is to raise awareness of a problem that exists throughout society -- not just tech, a whole different one is to go to the extent of requesting a pull request to remove gendered references. That helps no one. Zero. It does not advance anyone's argument.

rdodev commented Nov 29, 2013

Glad this didn't go through. The White Knights of tech are getting a bit over their heads on this. One thing is to raise awareness of a problem that exists throughout society -- not just tech, a whole different one is to go to the extent of requesting a pull request to remove gendered references. That helps no one. Zero. It does not advance anyone's argument.

@azer

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@azer

azer Nov 29, 2013

+1 "him" definitely needs to be replaced with "them"

azer commented Nov 29, 2013

+1 "him" definitely needs to be replaced with "them"

@eevee

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@eevee

eevee Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev I would like to raise awareness of another problem: dismissing attempts to actually change things as "white knighting", with the subtext that there's no genuine platonic reason women deserve to be defended.

Awareness is of little value if no one ever acts differently, and open source is supposed to be about fixing what's broken, right? Patches welcome and all that. Well, here's your patch.

eevee commented Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev I would like to raise awareness of another problem: dismissing attempts to actually change things as "white knighting", with the subtext that there's no genuine platonic reason women deserve to be defended.

Awareness is of little value if no one ever acts differently, and open source is supposed to be about fixing what's broken, right? Patches welcome and all that. Well, here's your patch.

@rdodev

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@rdodev

rdodev Nov 29, 2013

@eevee "with the subtext that there's no genuine platonic reason women deserve to be defended."

Are you implying that women cannot defend themselves and need people to defend them? I think that stance is even more sexist that a "him" vs. "them"

rdodev commented Nov 29, 2013

@eevee "with the subtext that there's no genuine platonic reason women deserve to be defended."

Are you implying that women cannot defend themselves and need people to defend them? I think that stance is even more sexist that a "him" vs. "them"

@adamv

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@adamv

adamv Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev so you need a woman to submit this pull request to consider it?

adamv commented Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev so you need a woman to submit this pull request to consider it?

@eevee

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@eevee

eevee Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev Are you implying that only women should care about how women are regarded? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

When the very problem is that there are very few women participating in open source, what do you expect to accomplish by shaming men who try to make the environment more welcoming for women? That in itself is even more offputting.

eevee commented Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev Are you implying that only women should care about how women are regarded? Isn't that how we got here in the first place?

When the very problem is that there are very few women participating in open source, what do you expect to accomplish by shaming men who try to make the environment more welcoming for women? That in itself is even more offputting.

@ncoghlan

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ncoghlan

ncoghlan Nov 29, 2013

So you're saying this pull request would have been accepted if it had been submitted by a woman rather than by Alex? Shall we see if we can put that theory to the test?

So you're saying this pull request would have been accepted if it had been submitted by a woman rather than by Alex? Shall we see if we can put that theory to the test?

@jfhbrook

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jfhbrook

jfhbrook Nov 29, 2013

The White Knights of tech

What white knights? I don't see anyone typecasting women as damsels in distress.

It does not advance anyone's argument.

What argument? It's a small editorial change to reflect that sometimes women want to use libraries too.

Are you implying that women cannot defend themselves and need people to defend them?

That's a total load of bullshit. We should all strive to create the world we want to live in, whether it effects us directly or not. We're all in this together.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. You do all know that Ben's moved on ages ago, right?

The White Knights of tech

What white knights? I don't see anyone typecasting women as damsels in distress.

It does not advance anyone's argument.

What argument? It's a small editorial change to reflect that sometimes women want to use libraries too.

Are you implying that women cannot defend themselves and need people to defend them?

That's a total load of bullshit. We should all strive to create the world we want to live in, whether it effects us directly or not. We're all in this together.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this. You do all know that Ben's moved on ages ago, right?

@rdodev

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@rdodev

rdodev Nov 29, 2013

No, there's no need for this pull request be it requested from a man or woman. That's the whole issue I have. This PR will not advance women in tech, it will not increase the awareness, it will not get more women in tech or STEM majors. Such a trivial and minor change is about-face and grandstanding. You really want to make a change? Go volunteer at your local high school and get girls excited about tech or other STEM fields. Support groups like PyLadies or Women Who Code, CodeChix who are trying to bring in and support women into the field. But this PR? This PR is political: to be able to say "I stand for women's right in tech" because you changed a gendered pronoun without actual consequence.

rdodev commented Nov 29, 2013

No, there's no need for this pull request be it requested from a man or woman. That's the whole issue I have. This PR will not advance women in tech, it will not increase the awareness, it will not get more women in tech or STEM majors. Such a trivial and minor change is about-face and grandstanding. You really want to make a change? Go volunteer at your local high school and get girls excited about tech or other STEM fields. Support groups like PyLadies or Women Who Code, CodeChix who are trying to bring in and support women into the field. But this PR? This PR is political: to be able to say "I stand for women's right in tech" because you changed a gendered pronoun without actual consequence.

@leafstorm

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@leafstorm

leafstorm Nov 29, 2013

@rdodev Make the change yourself and strip his name from the commit log, then. Being worried about someone's personal motivations in suggesting a good thing isn't a reason to not do the good thing.

@rdodev Make the change yourself and strip his name from the commit log, then. Being worried about someone's personal motivations in suggesting a good thing isn't a reason to not do the good thing.

@seubert

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@seubert

seubert Nov 29, 2013

This PR and supporting PyLadies/WWC/CodeChix/etc are not mutually exclusive; suggesting so is absurd.

seubert commented Nov 29, 2013

This PR and supporting PyLadies/WWC/CodeChix/etc are not mutually exclusive; suggesting so is absurd.

@ncoghlan

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ncoghlan

ncoghlan Nov 29, 2013

Given that the work had already been done, why click Reject, rather than Accept?

Yes, the change is trivial, but that's a reason for accepting it, not rejecting it.

Why do you consider it more appropriate to challenge how Alex chooses to spend his time rather than challenge the deliberate choice to continue using gendered language when a gender neutral alternative has been offered for inclusion?

Given that the work had already been done, why click Reject, rather than Accept?

Yes, the change is trivial, but that's a reason for accepting it, not rejecting it.

Why do you consider it more appropriate to challenge how Alex chooses to spend his time rather than challenge the deliberate choice to continue using gendered language when a gender neutral alternative has been offered for inclusion?

@benjaminws

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@benjaminws

benjaminws Nov 29, 2013

Clicking the 'Merge pull request' button would have taken less effort than it did to click 'Close' and leave a comment, but the positive effect from accepting it had would have been much greater.

Clicking the 'Merge pull request' button would have taken less effort than it did to click 'Close' and leave a comment, but the positive effect from accepting it had would have been much greater.

@0xabad1dea

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@0xabad1dea

0xabad1dea Nov 29, 2013

Hello, I might be a woman. 100% for Singular They. It is perfectly grammatical ("you" works the exact same way) and never socially problematic. I don't see what the problem is and I don't see why @alex and @eevee being proactive is some sort of motivation problem. I would recommend @rdodev consider that change begins with the small things.

Hello, I might be a woman. 100% for Singular They. It is perfectly grammatical ("you" works the exact same way) and never socially problematic. I don't see what the problem is and I don't see why @alex and @eevee being proactive is some sort of motivation problem. I would recommend @rdodev consider that change begins with the small things.

@jfhbrook

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jfhbrook

jfhbrook Nov 29, 2013

I mean, we can't all not be tools.

I mean, we can't all not be tools.

@jorgenschaefer

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jorgenschaefer

jorgenschaefer Nov 29, 2013

While this little change is highly unlikely to have a large impact, it might have a small one–someone might see it and think "oh, someone is considerate of non-males in this male-dominated industry, that's great!" On the other hand, rejecting a simple change that someone wrote for you gives a mild signal that there are quite a few people who still don't care. And those who oppose equality will feel vindicated and supported.

None of these are a big thing. But when choosing between a minor positive signal and a minor negative signal, you chose the negative one for no reason at all. There was no work involved, there was no loss in quality of your code, and it would have been a small good deed. :-)

While this little change is highly unlikely to have a large impact, it might have a small one–someone might see it and think "oh, someone is considerate of non-males in this male-dominated industry, that's great!" On the other hand, rejecting a simple change that someone wrote for you gives a mild signal that there are quite a few people who still don't care. And those who oppose equality will feel vindicated and supported.

None of these are a big thing. But when choosing between a minor positive signal and a minor negative signal, you chose the negative one for no reason at all. There was no work involved, there was no loss in quality of your code, and it would have been a small good deed. :-)

@mistydemeo

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@mistydemeo

mistydemeo Nov 29, 2013

This PR will not advance women in tech, it will not increase the awareness, it will not get more women in tech or STEM majors.

Speaking as a woman, I frequently see documentation that uses exclusively male pronouns and and know that it's often because doc authors forget/don't consider that they have female readers too. The implication (intended or not) is that the audience of software developers is male. I mentally compare that to how I'm always assumed to be male first on the internet. I'm +1 on this documentation change.

This PR will not advance women in tech, it will not increase the awareness, it will not get more women in tech or STEM majors.

Speaking as a woman, I frequently see documentation that uses exclusively male pronouns and and know that it's often because doc authors forget/don't consider that they have female readers too. The implication (intended or not) is that the audience of software developers is male. I mentally compare that to how I'm always assumed to be male first on the internet. I'm +1 on this documentation change.

@raganwald

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@raganwald

raganwald Nov 29, 2013

Remember that the whole world is watching this discussion, and consider--carefully--the message you are sending, not just with the PR itself, but with the way it is being handled.

Remember that the whole world is watching this discussion, and consider--carefully--the message you are sending, not just with the PR itself, but with the way it is being handled.

@itsjustpiper

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@itsjustpiper

itsjustpiper Nov 29, 2013

I've read enough documentation with "he" in it that I'm almost desensitized to it. It's never affected me. It's an honest mistake made by people who haven't really thought about it (and the problem exists outside of technology).

The concerning part here is that when it does affect someone, you're actively fighting against it. It doesn't hurt a single thing to merge this patch, but the damage you do in not merging the patch and defending why you're not merging the patch seems to be digging a hole for yourselves that you weren't initially in. :(

I've read enough documentation with "he" in it that I'm almost desensitized to it. It's never affected me. It's an honest mistake made by people who haven't really thought about it (and the problem exists outside of technology).

The concerning part here is that when it does affect someone, you're actively fighting against it. It doesn't hurt a single thing to merge this patch, but the damage you do in not merging the patch and defending why you're not merging the patch seems to be digging a hole for yourselves that you weren't initially in. :(

@searls

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@searls

searls Nov 29, 2013

+1 to merge.

Even if the phrase "hostile" seems a little strong to me, it would be unreasonable for me to dismiss people who claim they perceive gendered pronouns as such. The requester is hardly asking for accommodation that requires a Herculean effort—in fact, closing this issue with a rebuttal certainly took much more effort than merely merging it in!

I'm personally disappointed that the Node and Angular maintainers seem to continually go out of their way to come across as inconsiderate jerks.

searls commented Nov 29, 2013

+1 to merge.

Even if the phrase "hostile" seems a little strong to me, it would be unreasonable for me to dismiss people who claim they perceive gendered pronouns as such. The requester is hardly asking for accommodation that requires a Herculean effort—in fact, closing this issue with a rebuttal certainly took much more effort than merely merging it in!

I'm personally disappointed that the Node and Angular maintainers seem to continually go out of their way to come across as inconsiderate jerks.

@philsturgeon

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@philsturgeon

philsturgeon Nov 29, 2013

Stop pissing around and merge the damn PR. This is not political correctness gone mad, just an overblown conversation into something that never needed a conversation.

Using gender specific text where it is not applicable is just bad writing style. Nobody here is white knighting, you just wrote it wrong. Sort it out.

Stop pissing around and merge the damn PR. This is not political correctness gone mad, just an overblown conversation into something that never needed a conversation.

Using gender specific text where it is not applicable is just bad writing style. Nobody here is white knighting, you just wrote it wrong. Sort it out.

@solojavier

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@solojavier

solojavier Nov 29, 2013

I don't see the harm in merging...

I don't see the harm in merging...

@postmodern

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@postmodern

postmodern Nov 30, 2013

@sam-github @alex if you want an explicitly singular pronoun, how about "one"?

@sam-github @alex if you want an explicitly singular pronoun, how about "one"?

@sigmavirus24

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment

👍 :shipit:

@jkahn

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jkahn

jkahn Nov 30, 2013

+1 to the merge for another tiny step towards gender inclusivity in tech.

jkahn commented Nov 30, 2013

+1 to the merge for another tiny step towards gender inclusivity in tech.

@leanucci

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@leanucci

leanucci Nov 30, 2013

You really want to make a change? Go volunteer at your local high school and get girls excited about tech or other STEM fields. Support groups like PyLadies or Women Who Code, CodeChix who are trying to bring in and support women into the field.

Its funny that you ask this, so those women can later come across this documentation and find it male oriented.

But this PR? This PR is political: to be able to say "I stand for women's right in tech" because you changed a gendered pronoun without actual consequence.

The power to change that is yours. All you have to do is realize it would make things better in a small way, just change it and move on, like the small thing it will be after it's changed.

You really want to make a change? Go volunteer at your local high school and get girls excited about tech or other STEM fields. Support groups like PyLadies or Women Who Code, CodeChix who are trying to bring in and support women into the field.

Its funny that you ask this, so those women can later come across this documentation and find it male oriented.

But this PR? This PR is political: to be able to say "I stand for women's right in tech" because you changed a gendered pronoun without actual consequence.

The power to change that is yours. All you have to do is realize it would make things better in a small way, just change it and move on, like the small thing it will be after it's changed.

@ddfreyne

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ddfreyne

ddfreyne Nov 30, 2013

👍 to merging.

👍 to merging.

@brettshollenberger

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment

+1 merge it

@agrimm

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@agrimm

agrimm Nov 30, 2013

Just merge it(TM).

agrimm commented Nov 30, 2013

Just merge it(TM).

@excelsiores

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@excelsiores

excelsiores Dec 2, 2013

BTW, in the spirit of actually doing something about this, I have started a repo at https://github.com/excelsiores/geek-misandry to document some of the typical reactions that misandrists like @alex and @kerstin use to promote their female-only agenda. This is done in a spirit of free thought -- they are free to document their thinking and so am I.

Feel free to contribute, or just use it whenever you encounter something like this in the wild.

BTW, in the spirit of actually doing something about this, I have started a repo at https://github.com/excelsiores/geek-misandry to document some of the typical reactions that misandrists like @alex and @kerstin use to promote their female-only agenda. This is done in a spirit of free thought -- they are free to document their thinking and so am I.

Feel free to contribute, or just use it whenever you encounter something like this in the wild.

@CodeAngry

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@CodeAngry

CodeAngry Dec 2, 2013

@excelsiores +100: I think he/she/it meant adult human leg covers.

@excelsiores +100: I think he/she/it meant adult human leg covers.

@jfhbrook

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@jfhbrook

jfhbrook Dec 2, 2013

"geek misandry" ? Are you shitting me?

jfhbrook commented Dec 2, 2013

"geek misandry" ? Are you shitting me?

@ThisIsSoGood

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ThisIsSoGood

ThisIsSoGood Dec 2, 2013

@CodeAngry it is very offensive that you are excluding young people. They are also human beings!

@CodeAngry it is very offensive that you are excluding young people. They are also human beings!

@CodeAngry

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@CodeAngry

CodeAngry Dec 2, 2013

@jesusabdullah Maybe he is! I would.
@ThisIsSoGood 'Big boy' translates into political correct language to genderless 'adult'. I hope...

PS: I wish some vote buttons would be present here. There's some epic commenters I'd +1. Glad there's still people with common sense here. The rest are elsewhere, doing actually useful work.

@jesusabdullah Maybe he is! I would.
@ThisIsSoGood 'Big boy' translates into political correct language to genderless 'adult'. I hope...

PS: I wish some vote buttons would be present here. There's some epic commenters I'd +1. Glad there's still people with common sense here. The rest are elsewhere, doing actually useful work.

@thestinger

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@thestinger

thestinger Dec 2, 2013

@excelsiores: I fail to understand why using gender neutral pronouns is female-only agenda. It's true that English lacks a proper singular gender-neutral pronoun but it's ridiculous to present a grammar bikeshed like this as a gender war.

@excelsiores: I fail to understand why using gender neutral pronouns is female-only agenda. It's true that English lacks a proper singular gender-neutral pronoun but it's ridiculous to present a grammar bikeshed like this as a gender war.

@excelsiores

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@excelsiores

excelsiores Dec 2, 2013

@jesusabdullah Your username uses religious names in a way that combines cultural appropriation with humor that is offensive to me because of my religion. Please change it immediately.

@jesusabdullah Your username uses religious names in a way that combines cultural appropriation with humor that is offensive to me because of my religion. Please change it immediately.

@jfhbrook

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment

jfhbrook commented Dec 2, 2013

@excelsiores cool story bro.

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 2, 2013

Ok, let me get this straight ... @bnoordhuis attempted to follow policy, reverted a commit on the basis that no-one has privilege of being above the rules, and this is the mess that resulted?

I'm not telling you my sex, my gender, my ethnicity or even what language I consider native ... cause none of that matters. You know what matters? Equality. Grats everyone, you failed Equality 101.

Equality: the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

Special policies for dealing with gendered pronouns: discriminatory.
Having genital comparison exercises that stink of "holier than thou" attitudes towards women in tech: discriminatory.

You want to know why women don't like these communities, and why the few that do contribute tend to stealth all over the show? Because every time the subject of gender gets brought up, this kind of nonsense happens.
Every single time a flame war like this happens it shows once again that most of the arguments are "Men need to change there behaviour to be respectful to women."
It doesn't matter who is being targeted or why, if you're being a dick then you're being a dick, end of story.

You want to show your respect and support of ? Treat them as completely equal to yourself.
Don't protect or defend women. Fight the idiots that think women aren't equal to men and make women uncomfortable in the first place.

This comment thread had neatly proven the root issue: people lose all rational though capabilities the moment someone suggests discrimination might be involved, devolving to mobs more interested in making a point than engaging a brain cell.
I'll be over here, slow clapping while hitting my head on the desk.

kaithar commented Dec 2, 2013

Ok, let me get this straight ... @bnoordhuis attempted to follow policy, reverted a commit on the basis that no-one has privilege of being above the rules, and this is the mess that resulted?

I'm not telling you my sex, my gender, my ethnicity or even what language I consider native ... cause none of that matters. You know what matters? Equality. Grats everyone, you failed Equality 101.

Equality: the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability.

Special policies for dealing with gendered pronouns: discriminatory.
Having genital comparison exercises that stink of "holier than thou" attitudes towards women in tech: discriminatory.

You want to know why women don't like these communities, and why the few that do contribute tend to stealth all over the show? Because every time the subject of gender gets brought up, this kind of nonsense happens.
Every single time a flame war like this happens it shows once again that most of the arguments are "Men need to change there behaviour to be respectful to women."
It doesn't matter who is being targeted or why, if you're being a dick then you're being a dick, end of story.

You want to show your respect and support of ? Treat them as completely equal to yourself.
Don't protect or defend women. Fight the idiots that think women aren't equal to men and make women uncomfortable in the first place.

This comment thread had neatly proven the root issue: people lose all rational though capabilities the moment someone suggests discrimination might be involved, devolving to mobs more interested in making a point than engaging a brain cell.
I'll be over here, slow clapping while hitting my head on the desk.

@excelsiores

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@excelsiores

excelsiores Dec 2, 2013

if you're being a dick then you're being a dick, end of story.

I think you need to stop using male genitalia as a symbol of being impolite or bad in some way. That is extremely offensive towards men.

Oh damn, I said "male".

if you're being a dick then you're being a dick, end of story.

I think you need to stop using male genitalia as a symbol of being impolite or bad in some way. That is extremely offensive towards men.

Oh damn, I said "male".

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 2, 2013

@excelsiores Wheaton's Law says hi

kaithar commented Dec 2, 2013

@excelsiores Wheaton's Law says hi

@ferrouswheel

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ferrouswheel

ferrouswheel Dec 2, 2013

'female' is not offensive or derogatory, but it is depersonalising when used in isolation to refer to women ("those females"), or a single women ("that female"). You can say they are female, but to use it as an identifying noun is removing the humanity from the individual.

The scale of offense is similar the original pull request drama. It's not actually a big deal, it's just words, but it is callous to not understand why it makes people feel belittled and sit righteously on your side of the fence without bothering to consider things from a different point of view.

'female' is not offensive or derogatory, but it is depersonalising when used in isolation to refer to women ("those females"), or a single women ("that female"). You can say they are female, but to use it as an identifying noun is removing the humanity from the individual.

The scale of offense is similar the original pull request drama. It's not actually a big deal, it's just words, but it is callous to not understand why it makes people feel belittled and sit righteously on your side of the fence without bothering to consider things from a different point of view.

@ThisIsSoGood

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ThisIsSoGood

ThisIsSoGood Dec 2, 2013

I would like to inform people here that GitHub has decided to close the GitHub repository @excelsiores created to point out the problems that lead to this kind of long flamewars.

Unfortunately over there at GitHub office they only support freedom of speech as long the speech is a match to their own opinions.

I would like to inform people here that GitHub has decided to close the GitHub repository @excelsiores created to point out the problems that lead to this kind of long flamewars.

Unfortunately over there at GitHub office they only support freedom of speech as long the speech is a match to their own opinions.

@CodeAngry

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@CodeAngry

CodeAngry Dec 2, 2013

@ThisIsSoGood Freedom of speech exists only for the politically correct. Otherwise, no such thing! So, as long as you say the 'right' things, you're in the clear. ...And I Stared his repo.

@ThisIsSoGood Freedom of speech exists only for the politically correct. Otherwise, no such thing! So, as long as you say the 'right' things, you're in the clear. ...And I Stared his repo.

@AmyStephen

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@AmyStephen

AmyStephen Dec 2, 2013

@ferrouswheel -

Thank you for sharing that point of view.

I can assure you, when I used the word female and I can only assume that when @mistydemeo used the word female, neither one of us intended to dehumanize those of our gender or ourselves.

My usage, and I assume the usage of Misty, related to the definition of the word as given by Webster to depict a population composed of members of the female sex <the female population>. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, the first definition for women, provided by Webster is an adult female human being.

However, I will adapt my usage of language away from female if some find it offensive and your polite explanation is appreciated. In exchange, I ask that we all remember we are part of an international community with many languages, customs, different generational experiences and perspectives. It's always good to assume the best of one another, which I am certain your tendency is to do, as well.

@ferrouswheel -

Thank you for sharing that point of view.

I can assure you, when I used the word female and I can only assume that when @mistydemeo used the word female, neither one of us intended to dehumanize those of our gender or ourselves.

My usage, and I assume the usage of Misty, related to the definition of the word as given by Webster to depict a population composed of members of the female sex <the female population>. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, the first definition for women, provided by Webster is an adult female human being.

However, I will adapt my usage of language away from female if some find it offensive and your polite explanation is appreciated. In exchange, I ask that we all remember we are part of an international community with many languages, customs, different generational experiences and perspectives. It's always good to assume the best of one another, which I am certain your tendency is to do, as well.

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 2, 2013

@ThisIsSoGood @CodeAngry With the qualifier that I've only read the gist version that was linked from that reddit thread...
Given that said repo appears to have been both horrifically sexist and a perfect demonstration of the kind of nonsense being berated, I'd say it's quite appropriate for it to have been closed.
There's not even an attempt to hide the stupid "women's rights are oppressing me" narrative. I'm not even sure where to start listing the offensive remarks, it's that bad.

It's not respectful, it's not constructive, it doesn't serve a justifiable purpose. It might be a pure troll, but I'm not going to assume @excelsiores wasn't serious.
Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you should open your mouth, particularly if you're going to utter such drivel as it may be a woman's choice to take a lower-paying job with more flexibility. while linking to an article dealing with the fact a pay gap does exist but is more complex than any simple statistic.
Why, exactly, should we be taking it as fact that women choose to have lower paying jobs to get extra flexibility? Because they want a family? Because women can't take the pressure like men?
Give me an argument in favour of this view that isn't sexist or insulting, an argument that has some kind of credible statistical support, or GTFO civilised company.
If you can't make the same argument after doing s/women/men/g on it, you've failed.

There are complaints that the tech community is hostile because exactly because of things like https://gist.github.com/rlemon/7758759 being defended. What kind of reaction, exactly, do you expect to get from a woman new to tech if she encountered that as an example of coders and their opinions of women?

kaithar commented Dec 2, 2013

@ThisIsSoGood @CodeAngry With the qualifier that I've only read the gist version that was linked from that reddit thread...
Given that said repo appears to have been both horrifically sexist and a perfect demonstration of the kind of nonsense being berated, I'd say it's quite appropriate for it to have been closed.
There's not even an attempt to hide the stupid "women's rights are oppressing me" narrative. I'm not even sure where to start listing the offensive remarks, it's that bad.

It's not respectful, it's not constructive, it doesn't serve a justifiable purpose. It might be a pure troll, but I'm not going to assume @excelsiores wasn't serious.
Just because you have free speech doesn't mean you should open your mouth, particularly if you're going to utter such drivel as it may be a woman's choice to take a lower-paying job with more flexibility. while linking to an article dealing with the fact a pay gap does exist but is more complex than any simple statistic.
Why, exactly, should we be taking it as fact that women choose to have lower paying jobs to get extra flexibility? Because they want a family? Because women can't take the pressure like men?
Give me an argument in favour of this view that isn't sexist or insulting, an argument that has some kind of credible statistical support, or GTFO civilised company.
If you can't make the same argument after doing s/women/men/g on it, you've failed.

There are complaints that the tech community is hostile because exactly because of things like https://gist.github.com/rlemon/7758759 being defended. What kind of reaction, exactly, do you expect to get from a woman new to tech if she encountered that as an example of coders and their opinions of women?

@ThisIsSoGood

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@ThisIsSoGood

ThisIsSoGood Dec 2, 2013

@kaithar You are hilarious. "Why should we be taking it as fact that ..."

This whole shitstorm started after the original patch author claimed that it is "fact that using gendered language is hostile".

@kaithar You are hilarious. "Why should we be taking it as fact that ..."

This whole shitstorm started after the original patch author claimed that it is "fact that using gendered language is hostile".

@bartoszmajsak

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@bartoszmajsak

bartoszmajsak Dec 2, 2013

And now imagine all these keystrokes be turned into some useful code... Some people have too much time to spend on nothing really valuable.

And now imagine all these keystrokes be turned into some useful code... Some people have too much time to spend on nothing really valuable.

@SomeKittens

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@SomeKittens

SomeKittens Dec 2, 2013

@bartoszmajsak I'm glad those who thing this is an enormous issue aren't writing my code. Their priorities are all screwed up.

@bartoszmajsak I'm glad those who thing this is an enormous issue aren't writing my code. Their priorities are all screwed up.

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 2, 2013

@ThisIsSoGood that has nothing to do with what I said, or are you trying to make a connection between gendered language and sexist pay inequality?
I'm not going to waste my time with further analysis, but at first glance your reply appears to be a false equivalence fallacy. Certainly has all the hallmarks of a troll.

If you haven't something sensible to say, please let the adults talk.

kaithar commented Dec 2, 2013

@ThisIsSoGood that has nothing to do with what I said, or are you trying to make a connection between gendered language and sexist pay inequality?
I'm not going to waste my time with further analysis, but at first glance your reply appears to be a false equivalence fallacy. Certainly has all the hallmarks of a troll.

If you haven't something sensible to say, please let the adults talk.

@azat-co

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@azat-co

azat-co Dec 2, 2013

this is getting interesting: witch hunt, bad Joyent, etc.

azat-co commented Dec 2, 2013

this is getting interesting: witch hunt, bad Joyent, etc.

@joemcmahon

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@joemcmahon

joemcmahon Dec 2, 2013

@kaithar - since @ThisIsSoGood appears to have joined GitHub solely to post on this thread, I'd say you can safely conclude troll. I recommend blocking anyone who has no repos and no activity to improve your day.

@kaithar - since @ThisIsSoGood appears to have joined GitHub solely to post on this thread, I'd say you can safely conclude troll. I recommend blocking anyone who has no repos and no activity to improve your day.

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 3, 2013

@joemcmahon yea, that hadn't escaped my notice :(

kaithar commented Dec 3, 2013

@joemcmahon yea, that hadn't escaped my notice :(

@SaltwaterC

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@SaltwaterC

SaltwaterC Dec 3, 2013

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuis said: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all your hard work. You will be missed.

Hey, community, thanks for the neutrality in the docs and all the fuss, but in this case YOU are the assholes from the 4th slide. If this is your solution to the humankind problems, then I'm totally underwhelmed. For those who don't understand the tone of this message, I am not against neutrality in docs, or women in this field, but you people need to learn how to deal with this shit in a way it doesn't have consequences like these.

For some halfwits posting on this issue: yay, a victory for feminism. Cool story bro. A defeat for tech at the same time. Does Pyrrhic victory rings any bells? Did this victory of yours produce any relevant outcome that's at least on break even with the consequences?

As for @isaacs (and the rest of the Joyent who caused this), thanks, that's really mature to support #38. Closing comments over "irrelevant" issues. This issue right here is fucking relevant. Next time when I'll have an issue with the networking stack from node I guess I'll need to thank the lords of grammar and weep for joy that I live amongst linguists who care or understand these cultural issues that mostly exist for native speakers instead of having a dialog with people who actually write some fucking code that gets the shit done.

I'm out. I'm too angry to continue in a relevant way, to put it gently.

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuis said: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all your hard work. You will be missed.

Hey, community, thanks for the neutrality in the docs and all the fuss, but in this case YOU are the assholes from the 4th slide. If this is your solution to the humankind problems, then I'm totally underwhelmed. For those who don't understand the tone of this message, I am not against neutrality in docs, or women in this field, but you people need to learn how to deal with this shit in a way it doesn't have consequences like these.

For some halfwits posting on this issue: yay, a victory for feminism. Cool story bro. A defeat for tech at the same time. Does Pyrrhic victory rings any bells? Did this victory of yours produce any relevant outcome that's at least on break even with the consequences?

As for @isaacs (and the rest of the Joyent who caused this), thanks, that's really mature to support #38. Closing comments over "irrelevant" issues. This issue right here is fucking relevant. Next time when I'll have an issue with the networking stack from node I guess I'll need to thank the lords of grammar and weep for joy that I live amongst linguists who care or understand these cultural issues that mostly exist for native speakers instead of having a dialog with people who actually write some fucking code that gets the shit done.

I'm out. I'm too angry to continue in a relevant way, to put it gently.

@joemcmahon

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@joemcmahon

joemcmahon Dec 3, 2013

Somewhat off topic, really, but agreed, there are standard English ways to
say the same thing/

  • "We check to see if the data has been sent so we don't send it twice."
  • "Check to see if the data has been sent; don't send it again if so."

It isn't necessary to use a gendered pronoun to be able to communicate the
concept - in fact no pronoun is needed at all.

The discussion, however, is about the social procedure, not the patch. Had
it been rejected with "bad English, not acceptable" then it would have been
about the wording.

If there was a full-up style documentation guide, I'd suggest constructions
similar to my second example would be clearest and would eliminate any
personification and gendering problems.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure the dead horse has been flattened out to a
nanometer-scale paste by now, and further discussion here is probably of
minimal value.

Somewhat off topic, really, but agreed, there are standard English ways to
say the same thing/

  • "We check to see if the data has been sent so we don't send it twice."
  • "Check to see if the data has been sent; don't send it again if so."

It isn't necessary to use a gendered pronoun to be able to communicate the
concept - in fact no pronoun is needed at all.

The discussion, however, is about the social procedure, not the patch. Had
it been rejected with "bad English, not acceptable" then it would have been
about the wording.

If there was a full-up style documentation guide, I'd suggest constructions
similar to my second example would be clearest and would eliminate any
personification and gendering problems.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure the dead horse has been flattened out to a
nanometer-scale paste by now, and further discussion here is probably of
minimal value.

@kaithar

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@kaithar

kaithar Dec 3, 2013

@SaltwaterC

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuis said: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all your hard work. You will be missed.

Agreed

kaithar commented Dec 3, 2013

@SaltwaterC

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuis said: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all your hard work. You will be missed.

Agreed

@joemcmahon

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@joemcmahon

joemcmahon Dec 3, 2013

The saddest thing about it is that no one asked him to leave. No one
wanted him to leave. They just wanted him to listen.

It is very difficult and painful to be on the receiving end of a situation
like this; I hope that he changes his mind and decides that he can come
back and use what happened as a way to learn about the issue, instead of
depriving the community of a good contributor because of one bad choice.

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:42 AM, kaithar notifications@github.com wrote:

@SaltwaterC https://github.com/SaltwaterC

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuishttps://github.com/bnoordhuissaid: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core
development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to
happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all
your hard work. You will be missed.

Agreed


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29714639
.

The saddest thing about it is that no one asked him to leave. No one
wanted him to leave. They just wanted him to listen.

It is very difficult and painful to be on the receiving end of a situation
like this; I hope that he changes his mind and decides that he can come
back and use what happened as a way to learn about the issue, instead of
depriving the community of a good contributor because of one bad choice.

On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:42 AM, kaithar notifications@github.com wrote:

@SaltwaterC https://github.com/SaltwaterC

The only actual tragedy here is what @bnoordhuishttps://github.com/bnoordhuissaid: "I'm probably going to step back from libuv and node.js core
development.". I kinda see this "probably" as something that's going to
happen, unless someone changes the laws of physics. Thank you Ben for all
your hard work. You will be missed.

Agreed


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015#issuecomment-29714639
.

@thestinger

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@thestinger

thestinger Dec 3, 2013

@joemcmahon: If you don't want someone to leave the community, you don't make a post on your corporate blog implying they're a sexist asshole for sitting on the other side of you in an age old English grammar bikeshed.

http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

I would be surprised if someone didn't leave the community after an attack on their character made by Joyent. Expecting a contributor to keep on going after abusive treatment like this is ridiculous.

Joyent is risking a libel lawsuit when they lie like this on their blog:

but to characterize it that way would be a gross oversimplification: it's not the use of the gendered pronoun that's at issue (that's just sloppy), but rather the insistence that pronouns should in fact be gendered.

Ben never said this, or implied it.

@joemcmahon: If you don't want someone to leave the community, you don't make a post on your corporate blog implying they're a sexist asshole for sitting on the other side of you in an age old English grammar bikeshed.

http://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

I would be surprised if someone didn't leave the community after an attack on their character made by Joyent. Expecting a contributor to keep on going after abusive treatment like this is ridiculous.

Joyent is risking a libel lawsuit when they lie like this on their blog:

but to characterize it that way would be a gross oversimplification: it's not the use of the gendered pronoun that's at issue (that's just sloppy), but rather the insistence that pronouns should in fact be gendered.

Ben never said this, or implied it.

@SomeKittens

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@SomeKittens

SomeKittens Dec 3, 2013

Congrats all, you've killed the goose that laid the golden egg for the benefit of exactly zero actual people.

Congrats all, you've killed the goose that laid the golden egg for the benefit of exactly zero actual people.

@isaacs

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@isaacs

isaacs Dec 3, 2013

I can pretty well guarantee that ALL the opinions expressed here are woefully uninformed. Continuing to comment on this thread only is doing harm.

Everyone. Please. Just stop.

@mojombo Hey, can you try to encourage your team to take the isaacs/github#38 feature request seriously? The inability to close threads is doing active harm to open source projects, and you're seeing it here. I've offered to pay $1000 out of my own pocket if you can deliver this feature by the end of 2013. Surely someone at GitHub wants an extra Christmas bonus!

isaacs commented Dec 3, 2013

I can pretty well guarantee that ALL the opinions expressed here are woefully uninformed. Continuing to comment on this thread only is doing harm.

Everyone. Please. Just stop.

@mojombo Hey, can you try to encourage your team to take the isaacs/github#38 feature request seriously? The inability to close threads is doing active harm to open source projects, and you're seeing it here. I've offered to pay $1000 out of my own pocket if you can deliver this feature by the end of 2013. Surely someone at GitHub wants an extra Christmas bonus!

@isaacs

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@isaacs

isaacs Dec 3, 2013

I'm going to delete all comments after this one. You've been warned. Stop posting here. Take it to personal email if you want to keep debating things.

isaacs commented Dec 3, 2013

I'm going to delete all comments after this one. You've been warned. Stop posting here. Take it to personal email if you want to keep debating things.

@isaacs

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment

isaacs commented Dec 4, 2013

@eteled START

@eteled

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@eteled

eteled Dec 4, 2013

This issue is monitored by @eteled. Any further comments on this issue will be automatically deleted.
Only repo collaborators can START/STOP etelde.

eteled commented Dec 4, 2013

This issue is monitored by @eteled. Any further comments on this issue will be automatically deleted.
Only repo collaborators can START/STOP etelde.

@chid chid referenced this pull request Dec 13, 2013

Closed

Desexized readme #71

@joyent joyent locked and limited conversation to collaborators Jun 9, 2014

@isaacs

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment

isaacs commented Jun 9, 2014

@eteled STOP

@eteled

This comment has been minimized.

Show comment
Hide comment
@eteled

eteled Jun 9, 2014

This thread is no longer monitored by @eteled.

eteled commented Jun 9, 2014

This thread is no longer monitored by @eteled.

Sign up for free to subscribe to this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in.