You guys seem to think this is funny. #15
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I actually don't get the problem with this one. Granted, there are lots of jokes on the sex topic that are misogynistic, heteronormative, or just generally tasteless. With this one I can't see any such problems, but do educate me =) |
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You know... the humor actually went completely over my head until you pointed it out. |
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I find the whole thing to be less a big penis-joke and more a commentary on the state of javascript in general. Everyone and their mom is a javascript dev nowadays and they're much more concerned with whether or not you CAN than whether or not you SHOULD. There are a lot of bad ideas that get a lot of traction in the webdev community. This is a parody of those in much the same was html 9 responsive boilerstrap js is (http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/). |
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Joking about sexual violence? Really? How can you possibly defend this? It's gross, juvenile, inappropriate, and far from funny. Educate yourselves. |
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@maxlapides I'm at a lose-lose situation here, since you give me the vibe that you'll have an issue with the terms somehow being racist. Would you prefer dark or black? I'm trying to be politically correct here. Edit: Here, I took some time to find a resource you could learn from: |
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The only "joke" about sexual violence is actually saying that consent is mandatory to use DICCS. So SJWs should have no problem with that. I mean, unless your argument is "no one should ever make a dick joke" in which case, just close your tab and walk away if you're too "mature" for dick and fart jokes which, as a 32 year old, I hope to never see that day. |
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+1 that this is gross, juvenile, and offensive. i love jokes but this is certainly not a funny one. this is extremely harmful to our community and just further promotes sexism in tech. |
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I made a PR to address this but it was rejected :( #16 |
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I've seen at least two people say this is detrimental to the community. Gross? Sure. Juvenile? Without a doubt. Detrimental to the community? Only if the community at large decides we should legitimately start naming things like this. It's not like everyone is going to go replace their LESS code with DICSS code. Have a laugh or don't but don't start yelling the sky is falling just because someone posted some code with an immature sense of humor. |
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Not cool. Yet again, we continue the brogrammer culture by being idiots. |
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I'm not saying it is detrimental to the community because it is going to replace code, it is detrimental because it is just furthering the idea that being disrespectful and making jokes about sexual violence is okay when it isn't. |
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@allypalanzi Where does it imply sexual violence? I must be blind because I didn't see anything regarding forced sexual encounters in the README. |
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I’m not sure how this perpetuates “sexism in tech”, and I still have no idea what a “brogrammer” is. My problem with this is that it’s just juvenile. It’s a lazy attempt at humour. It isn’t funny. I don’t find dick jokes offensive, but I find such childishness insulting to the developer community as a whole. You know why there has been social stigma surrounding programmers for a long time? This is why. Cut it out. |
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Who is this being disrespectful to, and where does it say we should go around raping people? I'm a 32 year old, bisexual, genderqueer individual, and at no point did I find anything to be offended at, nor was I #triggered. @MCluck90 they were mentioned, specifically that they were unacceptable. This is simply a matter of people making it their life goal to be offended being offended. |
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I don't appreciate my advice being ignored. I find that offensive. |
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I said this is harmful to the developer community. Think about that when you eat your Count Chocula tonight. |
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@MCluck90 #16 (comment) this answers it nicely. |
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To assume "put your DICCS wherever you want" means "put your penis in a woman's vagina, even if she doesn't consent" is an incredibly heteronormative viewpoint, is incredibly misandrist, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Check your privilege. |
Done. |
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There are women in India being raped and prosecuted as adulterers for it, but more importantly, someone is making a puerile joke on the Internet. |
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@Advi Because that's somehow taking the moral high ground? |
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Yes, I know what the not-as-bad-as card is. It doesn't quite fit here because the example of a "real" problem I provided is related to the topic at hand and based off of the purported reasoning for having this repo deleted. |
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@Advi |
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To be honest, I totally understand the anger. People have spent a lot of time, and money, campaigning for a DICSS-less society - and then you come along, and wave DICSS in everyone's face. Please, don't let DICSS become an issue that divides us as a community. DICSS, and DICSS-less projects can coexist within the same industry. |
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@Shemmie maybe DICSS and LESS should be combined into DICSSLESS or LESSDICSS |
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Well I know that DICSSless projects are all the rage in IT at the moment. I believe there's a lot of potential funding in that area. I totally respect that. But this project is about what DICSS 'can' do for IT. Don't get me wrong; DICSS is not perfect. It's a bit too tightly coupled for my liking (I'd much prefer a solution where I could slip DICSS in and out of my project, or exchange it for similar alternatives). It could do with a hell of a lot more work on optimization - especially as it's not on any CDN's that I'm aware of? Every time letsgetrandy has brought a new version of DICSS to the table, sure, it's had loads of cool new things - but the size is getting out of hand now. I'm trying to find a way of pleasing everyone, but it's hard. @allypalanzi, I respect that you find DICSS harmful in this context. I totally respect your view on jokes, too. I've got a friend who's similar to you - they didn't find this funny. At first, I thought it was because they and I found different things funny - but they explained that in fact no, I was simply finding the wrong things funny. After a long and frank exchange of opinions, I accepted that I am wrong. That being said, can you respect that, if I choose to use DICSS, I'm free to do so? Please understand, I'm not requiring you to use DICSS, or trying to force my opinions onto you - merely asking, am I free to use DICSS if I so wish? I also agree with @maxlapides - we should all educate ourselves. Is there any documentation being drawn up? Final note: @kyokou - I respect you and your views, but I find your PoC humor problematic. As per the friend I mentioned before, I am likely wrong in this and so I apologize if I've caused you any undue distress. |
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HELLO POLICE IM OFFENDED SEND HELP |
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hey, stop having fun |
Huge +1 for that. |
I think this is more of a misunderstanding then, because this isn't a professional environment. It's some guy's repo on a site that is open to the public. For that reason, I think it's a little silly to suggest that you can counter "the impression that this is what Github community is like". The entire planet is the Github community. Of course, in practice a minority of people ever use this site, but nothing is preventing them. I don't mind being told "don't tell jokes referring to the male anatomy" when it concerns a meeting, or a customer, or even an entire workplace, but this isn't remotely comparable.
I don't feel as if much is lost here if people are avoiding programming altogether just because some guy in some (likely) far, far away place, that they're unlikely to ever meet jokes about things like this. Even if this were a conference, as you brought up, I'd think the same thing. Honestly I can't imagine obfuscating my true feelings on a subject to such a degree because other people might be watching and might be offended. Maybe you honestly do think that this joke is the most horrible thing ever, I don't really know you, but at least a light chuckle on this end isn't something I feel like I should be ashamed of, and I don't think it reflects how I conduct myself at work or reflects the state of the industry or even this community. Frankly I don't even understand how this can offend anyone. It is offense for the sake of offense, like some sort of circular "we're offended because it makes the industry look bad to not be offended" logic, because the language of the repo in and of itself does not actually attack anyone. The whole thing is strange to me. Unless just hearing a word in any context is somehow harmful to you or others, and again, if that's the case I feel like nothing is lost if they don't stick around, because seriously? So you're right about that part, at least. I really don't care if the industry is inclusive to these people. These types of people are the things HR nightmares are made of and are generally unpleasant to be around. It isn't even just that, I mean them not being in my work environment is a dream, but you're saying we should all (as a tech community) no longer find dick jokes funny because it might harm the perception of the tech community to those outside of it. No thank you, just like you say people can't pick and choose to be offended, I can't pick and choose what I find funny. I agree with you there, it's something that is a part of you. Just like that, I think your suggestion is a contradiction. You're suggesting some people act unlike themselves while others: please express your offense, please draw conclusions from all of the community based on a small sample but you guys over there laughing about anatomy please stop it |
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Unfortunately real life in the real world has taught me that there are indeed people who will take offense at something you do, and in sufficient groups, every thing you do has some offensive connotation. According to what I've heard recently, something as innocuous as not liking mexican food, or eating 3 meals a day, or eating a ham sandwich is "racist". Some people find Christmas offensive, especially if it involves Jesus. want them to knock down your open Christmas card program? Open source gay/lesbian dating app? That's offensive too, take it down. See how that would work? It hurts both sides of the argument. My point is that you have to push back. If you don't, people who are offended will simply find more to be offended about and it will never end until you can't do anything at all. If you don't, these people will push and push and push until the internet is as sterile and boring as G-rated family entertainment and everything you do is offensive and life becomes a losing game of walking on eggshells. Think I'm being extreme? You don't realize how many people seem to make it there hobby of being offended. Especially given a political agenda. Especially today. Bowing to their censorship efforts only emboldens them, don't start that downward spiral. I know censorship isn't explicitly mentioned, but in most cases if they complain to the right person or complain loud enough they might push someone into making it go away, so it can lead to it. So what is worse? A few dick joke repositories on Github some people chuckle at? Or having things taken down one by one over time because someone somewhere is offended? Leave this project alone. The ultimate decision goes to Github administrators, who will probably see it for the harmless humor it is, and let it alone. And stop treating Github like a professional business environment. It isn't. It's a website, not an office building. |
Analogy is not quite honest. It's hard to not notice such T-shirt at a conference while people who don't like this repo can just don't come here. It's more like this: vegan came to the barbecue party and felt himself extremely offended because of all that guys who like meat.
You cannot represent the entire community, it's just your opinion.
False assumptions. I'm commenting here not because I like this particular repo or jokes but because I don't like the jokes censorship. If you want my opinion: it's unpleasant to be the part of industry where we can have jokes of one type and can't have jokes of the other. In my opinion that's a hipocrisy.
You are making the same logical error like many others here. Why don't you think about the people who will look at the prude persons like you who forbid an innocent jokes and decide not to be a part of community either?
How can you know whether it will alienate "some people"? Are you a God?
If it's a joke and not insulting then I don't see anything wrong here. |
Yeah our opinions differ here. This is a professional environment for me and a lot of people who spend a lot of their time working on open source projects that people, as well as the companies where they are employed, use every day. Some of them are “for fun”, some of them are pretty much our bread and butter. If that's not professional, I don't know what is.
We might have different views of Github, but it's not just a hosting service. I wouldn't worry that much about a similar joke on Bitbucket. But Github is known for its focus on social features. It has “trending” lists, “starred today” newsletter, etc. In my book, it stops being “some guy's repo” and becomes a representation of what's appreciated by Github community as soon as it gets into the newsletter. This is broadcasting what's OK.
Come on. You do it all the time. Would you tell these jokes to your Mom? I don't know, but I know some people wouldn't. We're in a society, we can control ourselves. It's fine.
No no no no no. It's so easy to think so. I already said similar jokes about female anatomy would gross me out. I can imagine people being grossed out by dick jokes. Can you? Do you care? Does it matter?
No that's not what I said. You can find any jokes funny. I just don't think it's wise to share them on Github as repos for the reasons I wrote above.
Please don't slippery slope me. When I was a teenager this was my favorite way to argue. You can take anything to absurd levels. Maturity means not seeing things in black and white.
Nobody is taking down anything. I came here to express that this is stupid. It's up to the repo owner to delete my comments if they wish to.
You can file an issue. |
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Slippery slope, eh? I don't think you realize what activist and political groups are trying to accomplish, especially where political correctness has already taken deep root. |
What's the deal with this 4chan-ish Orwell paranoia? Why do you always have to bring it up? Nobody is silencing or censoring you. I'm neither Github nor your government. |
I'm ok with this. But please, don't call other people teenagers just because they don't have the same opinion as you. And don't think that other people have the same vision of GitHub. |
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The issue is whether other people pressure the creator of this project into taking it down because it's "offensive". If they succeed, then it may embolden them to take down another one they find offensive. They might also convince the right people to take down other repositories they deem offensive. |
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Well I feel like the issue is going to become quite convoluted if we're to answer another question: Is Github for professionals only, or should it cater to professionals over people who come here for reasons other than a job. I'll try, but this thread will probably spin out because of it. Github might be a place where a lot of professionals spend their time, but so is Twitter, Facebook, Slack, bunch of other places I can think of. Should Github which again, is open to the public, be centered around the professionals who want it to be treated as if it were a work environment? It's a question I can't really answer, that doesn't seem like it's really even for me to decide. It's really more of a "what direction does Github want to go in as a company" sort of question more than one that I can answer for everyone, but in my opinion, the people using Github in a non-professional context probably far outnumber the ones using it in a professional context. For that reason I think it's probably most wise to not cater especially to professionals and their opinion on the social environment.
My Mom wouldn't even really understand this joke, but even if I could get her to understand she'd probably get a kick out of it. I grew up poor, we don't have these kinds of corporate-flavor stuffy opinions on matters such as these. In fact if anything she tells jokes I find distasteful.
I can certainly imagine it, I know what empathy is, but then, it is that empathy that drives me to not want to cave to those people. People can be offended about anything, that isn't some exaggerated claim, it's the objective truth of the matter. The subjective part comes into play when you say "should I respect or share their opinion that this is distasteful, or should I reject it along with the rest of the claims of offense that I find loony?" I mean you said
But the nature of your worldview pretty much is a slippery slope. Just like people being offended, what a person thinks is reasonable to be offended about is ever changing and subjective. |
Absolutely. But somehow these kinds of shitstorms don't arise around everything as slippery slope would imply. They arise around several particular kinds of jokes. You can count them on your fingers. You can solve 80% of such problems by avoiding them. Of course people might find something else offensive. You can't and probably don't want to solve every edge case. But considering that many girls tend to find dick jokes gross, and girls are sorely missing from this industry, perhaps it's a valid compromise. Unless you see everything as black and white, matter of principle and slippery slope, in which case there's no reason to argue at all. |
You should have probably said that from the start instead of implying opponents age several times and saying your opinion about projects like this so categorically... |
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If girls find projects with dick jokes gross, then they are free not to participate. There are millions of other projects with no jokes of that sort whatsoever they can choose to work on (like the Linux kernel and thousands of GNU projects, for one!). Then, it's the project maintainer's choice whether to keep or remove the jokes. Nobody needs to force or pressure anyone to do anything, everyone has the choice to participate or not. |
Well that's just a generalization, I mean it may be a pretty... true to life observation, based on what you know, but for the number of women that do kick up dust during these "shitstorms", there are so, so many women in tech that don't. I don't really know what that says, maybe they're apathetic or maybe it doesn't register on their radar of things to be concerned about. This also sort of incites another side-debate about women in tech and why they aren't joining the industry, last I checked women don't even register for CS in college and that is the first major issue to getting them to join the community. Women tend to avoid STEM overwhelmingly, not just CS, and there isn't many joke dick-based papers being submitted to widely available physics peer-reviewed journals. So I guess you could say repos like this are the reason why, but that's something I don't have data for. Then again, feminism isn't new. Women have faced more adverse conditions and were able to infiltrate a lot of professions against that adversity. I don't know what that says. I think that if women were once able to go toe to toe against actual misogynists, something like this is unlikely to deter them unless something else more fundamental has changed. |
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@puromonogatari That's like saying certain groups of men avoid watching TV because they hate Family Guy. As if Family Guy were the only show ever on television. |
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@puromonogatari why does it have to be a men vs women programming issue? why not teams of women? and teams of men? and those who want to work together can do so? you're not going to succeed very well in s/w development if you keep thinking that men/women proportions have to be equal. |
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So the @gaearon's opinion is that we should sacrifice joke projects (btw, are these jokes allowed?) in order to bring more people to the industry which haven't joined yet probably because of such projects. But there are three issues with this opinion:
So this entire issue is the matter of choice whether you support the people who like jokes and don't think that they are making any harm, and the people who are willing to sacrife all "useless" projects in order to bring more people to the GitHub and industry. |
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Or what about these jokes? Or what about this one? Clearly, the idea that "Github is a Serious Place for Serious Business®", and that humor is not allowed, is absurd on its face. Then we're left with the other argument - does the existence of this repo create an exclusionary environment? I don't see how - a couple of similes used upthread were "like saying that dick drawings on a piece of paper was keeping people out of art" or "how someone that hates Family Guy would avoid watching TV altogether". Also, clearly absurd. Perhaps the people who are being kept away from Github, if they even exist (which I am not convinced they are, to be honest), are ones that need to be kept away since they obviously place a lot of value on things which do not directly impact them. I find that these people are rather toxic to a community as they place a high value on drama and a low value on being quality contributors. Github's other benefit, other than their technical infrastructure, is their community, after all! ..so until such point as GH starts forcing you to play with DICSS as a matter of the signup process, my opinion is unchanged. If this repo bothers you, go away and stop looking for reasons to be offended. |
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+1 for the steve hughes video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ
Stephen Fry, The Guardian (2005) |
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@doublezeta Perfect example to show how harmful their reasoning can be. |
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Is it wrong if I copy & paste my comment from another issue? #16 (comment) I just checked the whole readme to double check for sexual violence and didn't find anything (just laughed a lot). I shared this DICSS with several female developers and they all had a good time, didn't feel offended or felt any kind of violence. I don't like java but I'm not creting issues saying "I'm offended because I don't like that language" or creating PRs saying "Okay here is everything using C". Instead I don't check java projects/repos. What if I create a repo to praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I for sure won't accept PRs saying "Here, I removed the blasphemy" |
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Fuck off back to tumblr. |
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I'm gonna get slated for this and I really couldn't care. A lot, of people here, and in general for that matter, are waaaay too sensitive. Ok sure, dick jokes probably aren't funny, but saying this promotes sexual violence or rape is beyond me and personally, I find it to be fucking ridiculous. My other point would have been this but @Karunamon has already made it. Enjoy :-) P.S - I do find dick jokes funny. |
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It might not be funny yet, but check back in about nine months. And instead of complaining, submit a pull request |
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Alternatively, submit a pull out request if you're not prepared to be a proud new maintainer. |
Dick jokes can be funny, just as any other joke. Not because they're dick jokes, the same way not all jokes about cars or potatoes or javascript are un-funny because of those topics. This repo is a kind of pun, and it contains some more puns, and some other kinds of jokes as well. Whether they're qualitative or not is up to each reader to decide, but if one considers it not funny just because it mentions penises, well... That is a bit sensitive. |
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I was highly offended by this, and will be prematurely pulling DICSS out of my front-end. |
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I got a fork of this without all those dick jokes because all of you guys are so whiny. www.github.com/aayanl/ICSS/ |
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I can understand that |
and others
But it's really not. It's harmful to the developer community.
Pretty sure Git will end up removing this fake user, but you should do it yourself like a real grown up.
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