Reporting Tables in Microsoft Powerpoint

[nvaccessAuto]

Reported by Shaimaa on 2015-09-11 12:38
The problem is divided into 2 parts: editing mode, and show mode.
In editing mode, NVDA can report if there is a table, however, it doesn’t speak the content of that table. In addition, when trying to edit the content of that table, I can’t use the table navigation keys ctrl + shift + arrows, I can’t even move character by character, word by word to edit the content of the cells.
In slide mode, NVDA doesn’t detect tables at all, it reads the content of the table as if it is normal text and of course you can’t use the table navigation keys to navigate it.

[nvaccessAuto]

Comment 2 by Shaimaa (in reply to comment description) on 2015-09-11 12:46
Replying to Shaimaa:

The problem is divided into 2 parts: editing mode, and show mode.

In editing mode, NVDA can report if there is a table, however, it doesn’t speak the content of that table. In addition, when trying to edit the content of that table, I can’t use the table navigation keys ctrl + Alt + arrows, I can’t even move character by character, word by word to edit the content of the cells.

In slide mode, NVDA doesn’t detect tables at all, it reads the content of the table as if it is normal text and of course you can’t use the table navigation keys to navigate it. I use Microsoft office 2007

[StommePoes]

In the meantime, do we have anything we can recommend NVDA users who receive powerpoints with tables?
Is there anything we can do to help?

[bhavyashah]

@Qchristensen Could you please share any suggestions you may have with reference to @StommePoes 's #5350 (comment)? Also, if tables in PowerPoint are common enough, the impact of this ticket may be high.

[Qchristensen]

Looking at tables in PowerPoint 2016:
Editing:

• Press TAB to move between objects on a particular slide. While NVDA reads some such as "Title placeholder" and "subtitle placeholder", tables inserted on a blank slide are read as "table", but tables inserted as the content on a "Title and content" slide are identified as "Object placeholder". In either case, press ENTER to go into the table / object which takes you to "row 1, column 1".
• Use TAB and SHIFT+TAB to move between the cells, similar to the way TAB and SHIFT+TAB works in tables in Word.
• The usual table navigation commands of control+alt+arrows don't currently work.

When running a slideshow, the table appears as one object (if using animation effects), though you can up and down arrow between each cell (read left to right, top to bottom as with tab).

As with other PowerPoint presentations, using slide transitions is fine (that's the animation between slides), but using slide animations (having each object or bullet point appear one at a time on a slide as you press a key) is problematic as NVDA currently simply reads the whole slide as if it appeared at once, so you then need to be aware of what is visually on screen for your audience.

[bhavyashah]

This feature request sounds sufficiently well-defined. Time to label as feature instead of enhancement? @feerrenrut

[StommePoes]

As with other PowerPoint presentations, using slide transitions is fine (that's the animation between slides), but using slide animations (having each object or bullet point appear one at a time on a slide as you press a key) is problematic as NVDA currently simply reads the whole slide as if it appeared at once, so you then need to be aware of what is visually on screen for your audience.

Yeah, we have lots and lots of these slides. They are popular for math teachers showing bits of things to students. We've been telling students to "Turn Off Animations" then view in SlideShow mode and just get the whole slide at once. These quite often have tables. I still kept getting tables as whole objects with no way to know which content was in which cell, but I've got PowerPoint 2013.

[Adriani90]

I have a similar Problem. I am dealing with presentations which do not allow editing functions since they are protected. But I can start the presentation by pressing f5. How can I navigate the table? Tab and shift+tab does not work, using arrow keys is too slow because the table is quite complex.

[Adriani90]

arrow keys let me move cell by cell or character by character but not column by column or row by row.

[StommePoes]

With JAWS I do have "traditional" table navigation when in Edit mode. In Presentation mode they're also a lump, and if alt text was added (which Microsoft's a11y checker will ding you for if you didn't), you get only the alt.
Being able to

• know that it's a table (let's say anything with proper col and maybe row headers can be a table)
• navigate like a table
• hear (any) alt text, but not as a replacement for the table contents

this would be the most awesome, esp for students who are not allowed into edit mode due to protection (I hadn't even thought of, what if our students weren't offered the edit mode? since we were recommending using that mode to reach some content. Tho edit mode also has the danger of the user accidentally changing/editing content when they meant only to navigate it. I've done that plenty of times!).

[MarcoZehe]

JAWS started exposing richer semantics in their virtual buffer a few versions ago, when in slide show mode. Things are exposed like web content, tables, lists, headings, images including alt text if provided.

[Qchristensen]

Still getting requests for this. Is this something which will be made available with UIA in PowerPoint? Or should we be able to access it already?

[CyrilleB79]

@michaelDCurran, is there a chance to work on this issue soon?

It is still requested regularly.

A good experience of table navigation would really be really useful for students or in companies, where PowerPoint file format is widely used.

[Qchristensen]

(Moving my comment from #12799 over here)

Testing this with the following setup:

NVDA 2023.3

Windows 11 (64-bit) Version: 22H2, Build: 22621.2792

Office 365 (64-bit) Version: 16.0.17029.20028

I found that in editing mode:

Control+alt+arrows do not work as they do in say Word (as reported)
up and down arrow do read the first cell in the column, as reported
tab does move through the table left to right, top row to bottom row, as it does in other tables such as in Word. This is how I would recommend navigating in the meantime.
When presenting (F5):

control+alt+arrows do not work
up and down arrows move by one cell at a time in the same order as tab does when editing
tab does not navigate the table

[Adriani90]

It seems Microsoft renders the tables according to html standards when opening a powerpoint presentation in the PowerPoint web app. Bu working with the web app is still not common in practice.Von meinem iPhone gesendetAm 13.12.2023 um 12:37 schrieb Quentin Christensen ***@***.***>: (Moving my comment from #12799 over here) Testing this with the following setup: NVDA 2023.3 Windows 11 (64-bit) Version: 22H2, Build: 22621.2792 Office 365 (64-bit) Version: 16.0.17029.20028 I found that in editing mode: Control+alt+arrows do not work as they do in say Word (as reported) up and down arrow do read the first cell in the column, as reported tab does move through the table left to right, top row to bottom row, as it does in other tables such as in Word. This is how I would recommend navigating in the meantime. When presenting (F5): control+alt+arrows do not work up and down arrows move by one cell at a time in the same order as tab does when editing tab does not navigate the table —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[RuturajL]

I can verify the above issue with MVDA version 2024.1 and Office 365 desktop powerpoint app.
Jaws continues to read the tables as expected in presentation mode and the editing mode.
I would also agree on urgency and importance of the solution for this issue, as it affects a large chunk of people, students and professionals dealing with powerpoint on daily bases. A potential workaround for the time being may be to save the PPT file in PDF format and read the PDF in acropad reader. But this is not an elligant solution.