Shall we exclude default themes from the default installation of the project?

[oprypin]

I've been thinking that the main goal of this project is to not break existing users.
So of course it would not make sense to break them by removing themes. Then why am I writing this?

Well, this may be the only thing that is worth changing right away, because there's an opportunity to tell users:

Replace your dependency from "mkdocs" to "xxx" and also if you were using the default themes, install this additional package

-that is, it might be viable only if it's done as one of the earliest changes in the project, before people start installing it.

What do you think? And which themes to remove? "mkdocs", "readthedocs" or both?

While we're at it: I don't think we will rename the theme that is named "mkdocs", will we??

[DevTwilight]

From my perspective, I think we should remove the current default theme and introduce a new one. Adding a new theme would give the project its own unique identity and help distinguish it from existing setups. For the majority of users, I don’t think anyone is relying heavily on the default theme anyway, so this change would likely have minimal impact while allowing us to start fresh with a theme that reflects the project’s vision.

[DevTwilight]

then what to do there are still blockers

[oprypin]

The remaining consideration is just whether to exclude all themes from the default installation, or not.

[DevTwilight]

Got it. If the only remaining decision is whether to exclude all themes from the default installation, then I’d say we can treat the theme as non-critical for now.

I suggest we first address a few existing issues from mkdocs, so that at least we have something ready to release for the initial version.

[oprypin]

@DevTwilight You can report issues or suggest a fix directly at https://github.com/mkdocs-community/mkdocs/pulls

[DevTwilight]

i not meant that Exactly — since this project is a fork, it’s important we start by addressing existing issues from mkdocs. Many users are likely to migrate, so resolving these issues early will give them a smoother transition.

We can track and work on these issues in the new repo mkdocs-community/mkdocs to prepare for the initial release.

[Andre601]

I would agree that the themes can/should be separated.

I and probs many others don't bother with the default themes of MkDocs and instead use other themes like Material for MkDocs...

Although, this breaking change may be a bit much.
Maybe an alternative could be a different install type?

I've seen projects have like project[full], so maybe something like project[no-theme] could be provided for those wo just want the SSG itself without the themes?
And maybe recommend this over the default in install instructions.

[oprypin]

Although, this breaking change may be a bit much.

Yes but I gave that some thought already in the original post

something like project[no-theme] could be provided for those wo just want the SSG itself without the themes?

Negations are not possible for optional dependency sets

[Andre601]

Well, then have it like project[all] then and just inform that the default would not come with any themes pre-installed.

I'm neutral to whatever the outcome would be.

[Andre601]

Should we maybe also offer like properdocs[mkdocs] and properdocs[readthedocs] (maybe with -theme appended or smth), so they only install that specific theme and not both?

Also, what are the general rules for package naming? Are collons allowed within the brackets? If so could properdocs[theme:<theme>] work well?

[oprypin]

Should we maybe also offer like properdocs[mkdocs] and properdocs[readthedocs] (maybe with -theme appended or smth), so they only install that specific theme and not both?

It's probably good to do, yes.
Although I personally historically have been against such things because it's pretty much the same thing whether you tell people to install properdocs[readthedocs] or to install properdocs properdocs-theme-readthedocs

[oprypin]

FYI: I think I will indeed remove both themes before making the first release. And I think it's the only blocker for the first release. I'll work on it tomorrow.

[oprypin]

• Opened PR Split out the themes into separate packages, NOT installed by default #24