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AP 3.4: TECS target speed should never cause pitch down after ARSPD_FBW_MIN has been reached #3357
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thanks for the report. Questions:
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Yes, there is an AS sensor (3DR one, digital, pin 65). The params are in the dataflash. I can see them if I open in apmplanner. Is there an easy way to open the dataflash and spit out just the params in a text file? |
I forgot to add that GUIDED has worked correctly all other times. It takes over every time I reach 70m and flies back up. This is the only time it's lost so much altitude and apparently was on its way to a high speed crash. |
Easiest way to extract params if you have the pymavtools installed is On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Marc MERLIN notifications@github.com
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yeah, I can grab the params from the bin, I was being lazy. I'll take a On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 10:27 AM, WickedShell notifications@github.com
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No worries, happy to make it easier for you |
Just to be clear, this is what you needed, right? |
Yes, and time. Time is a precious resource.
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As per @tridge's analysis of my mavlink, it looks like throttle nudge and 60% power at the time geofence kicked in, caused guided mode to pitch down big time to pick up a target airspeed of something like 37m/s, which explains why the plane flew towards the ground towards a crash. As a side note, 37m/s is 133kph which my plane will not ever be able to reach, so such a target airspeed with throttle nudge will cause the plane to dive towards the ground without ever reaching that speed. I do share blame for haivng ARSPED_FBW_MAX at 40, I should set it at 30, but at the same time, throttle nudge causing a target airspeed of 37m/s with a ARSPED_FBW_MIN of 14, sounds excessive :) |
ARMING_CHECK was 2030 according to your param file - that's weird. Not related to the issue - just weird. |
@gmorph for ARMING_CHECK, see #3291 Obviously it's not good in some way, but I never got a solution for it. For THROTTLE_NUDGE, @tridge and I discussed this last night, and with throttle at 60%, it's only a small nudge over 50%, so we still thought that having a target speed of 37 out of 40m/s was very excessive. In other words, only trying to reach the FBW_MIN airspeed should ever be a reason to pitch down, since pitching down is usually better than stalling out of the sky. Sounds fair? |
As a side note, for ARSPD_FBW_MAX, I would have been happy to have this set to 0, or undefined (can you do this)? |
Summary of all potential issues:
Thanks :) |
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@WickedShell fair point on #3, in the happy little world in my head :) it would just vary throttle towards the max throttle limit instead of working based on airspeed. This may not be desirable in all cases maybe, but for me, "more throttle" = "more amps to the motor" and whatever airspeed I get out of it, is what I get. |
Bottom line was ARSPED_FBW_MAX = 40 was un-achievable by your aircraft and On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Marc MERLIN notifications@github.com
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@magicrub, sorry I can't agree here :)
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On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Marc MERLIN notifications@github.com
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You do have a good point about not pitching down unless to prevent a stall On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Marc MERLIN notifications@github.com
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I just duplicated this issue with #3582 but specific to the one task |
Well, unless I analysed the logs wrong, this bug now crashed and destroyed my plane :( |
(Replying here because I don't have a forum account). Looking at that my
first thought is that pitching down was absolutely correct, and you're
pitch loop looks like it never stabilizes, and is not good at handling a
large upset in demand. The airspeed gets as low as 7.5 m/s which is far
outside of the expected/tolerated range there so it was asking for 12 m/s.
As soon as it got that it started looking to kill off the descent and for a
climb (admittedly not as fast as I'd have expected it to).
Also worth noting you had more throttle available in FBWA then the
autopilot ever had during the crash sequence. (I'm not terribly experienced
with STICK_MIXING but the neutral input with FBWA mixing seems like that
wouldn't be helping with the demands).
I'm not the best log analysis source so I'll bow to others on that aspect,
but once it got the desired airspeed it started trying to fix it as far as
I can see.
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@WickedShell, the plane was actually already pitching down when I was in MANU since I was coming in for landing. |
hi Marc, I've now completed an analysis of the crash, which I will post on the forums |
@tridge thanks for the ping, I failed to notice that the web board was not sending me any notification when you were replying there. |
Can someone post a link to the analysis please so I can follow along.
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http://ardupilot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=115&t=15302 Same spot Marc posted previously :)
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short video clip shows what's going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeT0yXTfnlg
ARSPD_FBW_MIN is 14 or 50kph, stall prevention is on (and should have been active in FBWA)
Video shows I'm flying in FBWA at 46kph, which is a bit weird since stall prevention should prevent that?
(arguably bug #1)
At the 6sec offset, speed is 44kph (real stall speed is below that, so plane flies fine). I hit the altitude deck of 70m, so GUIDED takes over.
So far so good, except maybe my AS too low for stall prevention.
In exactly 1 second, GUIDED brings the speed back to 50kph with an altitude of 66m
That's still ok.
But then, it goes downhill fast...
GUIDED banks pretty hard, keeps descending and getting more airspeed, altitude plummets, AS climbs to 80kph. I take over (remove GUIDED) when altitude reaches 26m (40m drop in a few mere seconds), and barely save the plane from crashing (that's when the OSD disappears due to an unrelated OSD bug)
This was quite scary, GUIDED that's supposed to help me not hit the ground, almost drove me into it at high speed (80kph) which would have shattered the plane to pieces.
Droneshare still busted after almost 2 months, so here's the datalfash:
http://marc.merlins.org/tmp/6_GUIDED_stall_prevention_near_crash.BIN
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