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@sasmith sasmith commented Nov 26, 2025

This makes some elements of extractor usage more consistent. Notably:

  • All extractors now use efficiency in a way that's scaled to 100. Previously most extractors expected efficiency to be ~100, and germanium expected it to be ~2.
    • Germanium now uses max_uses to determine its cooldown, versus the amount of germanium produced. Notably, germanium now has cooldown.
  • All extractors now use max_uses. This changes an invariant of Germanium having max_uses of 1.
  • All extractors can have have synergy. This is on by default for germanium, but everything can scale its output based on the number of agents there.
    • Probably one of the biggest impacts of synergy is that it allows more total production -- not just more production over time. We may need / want to tweak this in the future.

In order of importance:

  • Having germanium use a typical efficiency of 100 seems pretty valuable for consistency in what efficiency means.
  • Having germanium be multi-use and have cooldown helps us work around an issue we've repeatedly had in training examples where there's one extractor and it runs out and then there's nothing to do. Germanium is still clearly distinct from carbon and silicon, since they don't do cooldowns. It's now more like oxygen, but it's default coop, so maybe distinct enough.
  • Allowing everything to have synergy homogenizes how we think about resource settings, and gives more potential places for multi-agent cooperation. But it's something we'll need to play with.

This PR will mess up existing evals where we're setting the germanium extractor's

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sasmith commented Nov 26, 2025

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@sasmith sasmith changed the title Update extractors Make extractors more consistent; update germanium Nov 26, 2025
@sasmith sasmith marked this pull request as ready for review November 26, 2025 20:49
@sasmith sasmith requested review from bluewin4 and relh November 26, 2025 20:52
@relh relh added this pull request to the merge queue Dec 1, 2025
Merged via the queue into main with commit ac9f6b5 Dec 1, 2025
43 checks passed
@relh relh deleted the sasmith-11-26-update_extractors branch December 1, 2025 18:37
zfogg pushed a commit that referenced this pull request Dec 20, 2025
This makes some elements of extractor usage more consistent. Notably:

* All extractors now use efficiency in a way that's scaled to 100.
Previously most extractors expected efficiency to be ~100, and germanium
expected it to be ~2.
* Germanium now uses max_uses to determine its cooldown, versus the
amount of germanium produced. Notably, germanium now has cooldown.
* All extractors now use max_uses. This changes an invariant of
Germanium having max_uses of 1.
* All extractors can have have synergy. This is on by default for
germanium, but everything can scale its output based on the number of
agents there.
* Probably one of the biggest impacts of synergy is that it allows more
total production -- not just more production over time. We may need /
want to tweak this in the future.

In order of importance:
* Having germanium use a typical efficiency of 100 seems pretty valuable
for consistency in what efficiency means.
* Having germanium be multi-use and have cooldown helps us work around
an issue we've repeatedly had in training examples where there's one
extractor and it runs out and then there's nothing to do. Germanium is
still clearly distinct from carbon and silicon, since they don't do
cooldowns. It's now more like oxygen, but it's default coop, so maybe
distinct enough.
* Allowing everything to have synergy homogenizes how we think about
resource settings, and gives more potential places for multi-agent
cooperation. But it's something we'll need to play with.

This PR will mess up existing evals where we're setting the germanium
extractor's

Co-authored-by: S. Alex Smith <sasmith@stem.ai>
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3 participants