Some questions regarding additional repos and software

[sbstn87]

Hi, I have recently installs GeckoLinux in a VM to check it out after reading some reviews and the project page. At first glance it seems to deliver what is promised, so congrats on that 👌

Some questions regarding additional repos and package managers:

1. Why aren't all of the repos listed here and here added? Specifically: VLC, Games, Mozilla, Science, Wine, Fonts? They are obsolete, there are some issues with them, not needed because those packages are covered by other repos, or simply that would be an overkill in your opinion?
2. Is it still needed to type opi install codecs for some codecs in GeckoLinux, or all codecs are installed by default?
3. Does using opi install codecs risk breaking some things in GeckoLinux?
4. When I use opi install codecs in GeckoLinux, one additional repo is added to the repo list: multimedia:apps. Is this repo of any use in GeckoLinux, or those packages are covered by other repos which are already installed?
5. KDE's Discover for Flatpaks is not installed by default. Why is that and would you consider adding it to preinstalled apps? Or maybe perhaps YaST can handle Flatpaks and there is a way to add Flathub to covered repositories?
6. Have you considered adding zap to GeckoLinux? By default or as an easy option to select during/just after install?
7. There are some other cross-distro package managers available: LURE, nix, homebrew. What is your opinion on them and would you consider adding them to GeckoLinux or giving the user an easy option to toggle them?

Thank you in advance for any answers.

[geckolinux]

Hi there, thanks for giving it a try and for the questions.

1. Those add-on repos are as the name says, add-on; they are not desirable or necessary for most users. I'm not sure if you're using the Rolling edition or the Static edition, but especially the Rolling edition has access to most of the same software versions that are available in those add-on repos thanks to the main Tumbleweed repository it uses by default. A specific add-on repo can be manually added in a specific case where a user needs the absolute latest version instead of waiting a week or two for it to appear in the main Tumbleweed repository. Otherwise, those same packages should be available out-of-the-box in GeckoLinux via the main openSUSE repositories after going through more testing. It's important to understand that in openSUSE the same package can be available in multiple different repositories, but almost all expected software is in the main openSUSE repos that are preconfigured for GeckoLinux. So for example it's not like you won't have access to Wine if you don't install the Wine repository.
2. No, it's not necessary. Most/all codecs are pre-installed.
3. I don't know, I've never needed to use it because GeckoLinux preinstalls most necessary things by default.
4. multimedia:apps is probably unnecessary for almost all users unless in the rare case that you look for a specific multimedia package and can't find it in the main openSUSE repositories that GeckoLinux includes by default.
5. Unfortunately YaST can't handle Flatpaks. The Gnome Software and KDE Discover stores are the only ways of graphically managing Flatpaks, and unfortunately they both require a package management framework called PackageKit that causes a lot of problems with openSUSE because it interferes with the native zypper package manager. So unfortunately I can't recommend or preinstall Gnome Software or KDE Discover or other utilities that bring in PackageKit as a dependency. Fortunately the main openSUSE repositories together with selective as-needed additional OBS repositories usually offer an extremely broad selection of packages at different versions in case what you need isn't available in the main repos, and YaST Software allows for graphically managing it all.
6. The GeckoLinux does not create any of its own packages and it doesn't maintain package repos. So no software is included in GeckoLinux that is not available in the main openSUSE repos, and Zap is not available yet.
7. I've never needed to use additional package managers with GeckoLinux thanks to the large number of packages in the main openSUSE repositories plus add-on repositories for specialized software. Try searching for what you need first of all in the preconfigured repositories using YaST Software, and if it's not available there then search for it here and add the additional repository.

Hope this helps!

[sbstn87]

Hi, this helps immensely. Thank you!

Some additional questions that came after reading above:

1. So basically Debian does not need a separate, community driven repo like Packman, because all those non-free drivers/firmware/codecs are included in the official non-free repo? Or perhaps there is something like Packman for Debian (that you know of), which provides much more of those non-free software/drivers/codecs than the official one?
2. I have heard about discontinuation of openSUSE Leap. Do you know something more about the upcoming this ALP or MicroOS, which is supposed to replace Leap? It seems to be a immutable OS, like Fedora Silverlight - what's your opinion on immutable OS? Sorry for a bit of off-topic.
3. I have read that Debian will be including non-free firmware in their installer. Does vanilla openSUSE include this in their installer at the moment? If not, do you include this non-free firmware in GeckoLinux? I have noticed on your website, that you include proprietary firmware in SpiralLinux, so I assume it will no longer be needed to be done on your side after it's included by default in Debian or perhaps you include some more of those blobs?

Thanks for recommending SpiralLinux, I will give it a try in a VM.

[geckolinux]

Hi again, thanks for the questions.

1. Correct, Debian provides a large selection of non-free software, drivers, firmware, and codecs in its official non-free repo, no third-party repos needed.
2. I'm personally not a fan of the immutable OS concept, especially for a desktop system. SUSE / openSUSE's planned transition of their main enterprise product to this new immutable OS paradigm is the main reason why I created SpiralLinux, because once ALP/MicroOS replaces the current Leap it will no longer meet my needs. An immutable OS greatly limits and/or extremely complicates the freedom of the user to customize it for his/her own needs and preferences, and basically assumes that the user will install and use the OS as-is, with the only modifications being additional apps (in the form of Flatpaks in this case) and/or additional server components running in containers. Currently MicroOS only supports the Gnome desktop because that's what the main developers prefers, and Plasma is in alpha stage and doesn't work well at all. There are no other desktop environments available because, unlike the traditional Linux system that lets the user install or remove desktop environments according to their preferences, an immutable OS requires the developer to create an immutable OS image specifically for a given desktop environment; as far as I can tell it's not possible for example to install MicroOS with Gnome and then later install Cinnamon on top of it. If you've ever tried to do any low-level customization to an Android device you'll know how difficult it is to modify anything that isn't an end-user application, because the core of the Android OS is read-only and even if you change something it will simply get overwritten on the next reboot.
3. openSUSE does install non-free firmware as needed with their installer, and GeckoLinux includes it by default. The recent Debian announcement is pertaining to how their installer will behave, but since SpiralLinux doesn't use the Debian installer it's not relevant. SpiralLinux tries to include as much proprietary firmware and drivers as possible in its ISO images by default. Also notice that some hardware requires kernel drivers to function, which aren't the same thing as firmware. SpiralLinux tries to include those too, including the the non-free ones that are available from Debian. GeckoLinux also tries to include all the non-free drivers that openSUSE offers. The end result is that problematic hardware like Broadcom and Realtek WiFI will usually just work out-of-the-box on GeckoLinux and SpiralLinux, and not on vanilla Debian or openSUSE.

[sbstn87]

Thank you for the replies, much appreciated.

I can see the appeal of an immutable distro from the developer's perspective and advantages for a "non-sophisticated" user. But the issues you have highlighted may make it a big "no-no" for a more advanced user who has some specific expectations.

One last question that just popped. I can clearly see the idea and appeal of SpiralLinux (btw, congrats on very positive feedback on DistroWatch and DistroTube channel) , but have you personally tried/tested some other Debian based distros, especially MX Linux, Linux Mint DE, Sparky Linux? What is your opinion on them and do you think that they may be a better solution for a less advanced user who just enters the Linux world and looks for a user-friendly distro? I specifically omitted Ubuntu and derivatives as I am not a fan.

[geckolinux]

have you personally tried/tested some other Debian based distros, especially MX Linux, Linux Mint DE, Sparky Linux?

Yes, I've tested them, and they definitely have a lot of strong points. I personally need a wide selection of available desktop environments for different usage scenarios and different users that I support, so one of the big reasons for creating SpiralLinux was to have all of the major desktop environments available with a common and similarly configured base system. Additionally, those other distros create their own packages and repositories, so to a greater or lesser degree their users' systems are dependent on those projects to keep them running on the long term. SpiralLinux on the other hand is completely dependent on the much larger Debian project once it's installed, so the final system doesn't depend on the human and monetary resources of a small team.

[sbstn87]

Once again, thank you for the detailed responses. Good luck with your wonderful projects!