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Replies: 4 comments 14 replies
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@prmod3d Thanks for the thoughtful idea, and I know that "giddy" feeling with such fields. I'd rather not add it, though: the properties and settings panels scroll with the wheel, so a number would change by accident whenever the pointer passes over a field, and the question of which digit to change needs a rule or one more setting. For changing a value with the mouse alone, almost every number field has a slider under it. If you find a field where one is missing, tell me which and I'll look at it. |
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I could see where the OP's idea would be useful as im native to this feature in adobe illustartor (I make graphics decals and stickers for atvs, utvs, bikes, trailers etc) and this is a super sweet feature I enjoy on there. when I tried on layerling I made a bit of a sad face when it didnt work. to be fair though, many programs dont utilize this feature though. haha. #spoiled I guess. hahaha. however in hens defense, I can see where it would take some work to make it so ppl dont mess it up. |
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Perhaps you could elaborate further to some of my questions in the response to Stefan below, regarding scrolling field value functionality in Illustrator? Thanks! |
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@WagnerBoyzRacing thank you, it helps to hear how it works in Illustrator. The reason I held back is the one you name: the side panels scroll with the wheel, so a number would change whenever the pointer passes over a field. I decided to leave it as it is. Most fields have a slider under them for the mouse alone. |
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I've been exploring the newly released FreeCAD 26.3 RC1 program for a few days now, and it uses this mouse-controlled field change method in a lot of the options of the Preferences section -- most of which also have scrollable content in the panels. I've never noticed an issue with the two scrolling actions interfering with each other. Maybe there's a delay involved? I don't think the scroll action within the field is activated until the field is actually selected (by clicking in the field to make it the focus, just as you do when entering values via keyboard). It really is a sweet way of quickly changing values without having to switch to keyboard, (and often having to clear an old value before entering a new one). Once you've tried it a few times you wonder why more programs don't use it! The only big issue I can see is that it works best with whole numbers (which is the only time I've seen it used in FreeCAD) and decimal numbers would require precision placement of the mouse next to the number you wanted to increment... and that would be a real pain as well as introducing all sorts of frustrating potential for errors. SInce there's very few (if any?) field values in layerling that are whole numbers, having the scrolling field option would rarely be relevant, so there's probably no point in having it at all. Maybe @WagnerBoyzRacing could comment further about decimal point values fields that use this feature in Illustrator? |
Typically it jumps 1mm at a time. Even though illustrator is setup for 0.001mm increments, when the mouse wheel is used it will jump 1mm at a time. Example 24.5mm object would jump to 25mm or 24mm when the wheel is spun. Also, the text enterable box only needs to be hovered over with the mouse in order to enable this function. I will add that holding shift and scrolling will allow it to jump 10mm at a time. These values are all based on how many steps your document is set up for. (Example, I typically set my image design software for 1mm steps versus 5mm steps or 0.5mm steps) Sliders can be tricky for me regardless. I use a high mouse speed to cover a large screen on a regular basis so my 2nd nature behavior usually leads to sliders going grossly over or undersized lol 😂. Generally the only slider I use on tinker or layerling is the “sides” for making models with contoured edges nice and smooth rather than choppy. (Layerling smartly allows defaults to be set so no redundancy is needed). I have NO idea how much hassle or work it would be to setup as I’m not a programmer or designer but, maybe ONCE the text box is clicked it could then be controlled by the mouse wheel? Totally up to Hen obviously. |
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Thanks for the detailed description, and clarification. I also rarely (read never) use the layerling sliders for the same reason of their coarse level of adjustment as you've mentioned. To me they just use up valuable screen real estate that forces me to scroll further down to see the other options! There is a fine adjustment method for the slider, which is to click on the slider first and then use the cursor keys to move it; but that results in increments that are often too fine (hundreths of a mm). The left/right arrows have the same action as the up/down arrows, and maybe the slider could move at different decimal point values based on which arrows are used and also in combination with SHIFT, CTRL, ALT, etc... although this would add more complexity for trying to remember everything. I would much prefer the combination of keyboard (i.e. Shift, and even Ctrl and Alt combos) and mouse-wheel-scroll method you describe. The placement of the Shift, Ctrl, and Alt keys on the keyboard also make it somewhat intuitive as to which ones to use for finer adjustments.: starting with none (scroll-wheel only) for coarse adjustments, and then gradually finer with Shift, Ctrl, or Alt. For now, at least a single click on a field value highlights it for easy type-overs, and a second click allows for finer keyboard entered adjustments -- although sometimes my mild case of number dyslexia gets in the way and I end up retyping the wrong number as soon as the previous number can't be used as a reference. The undo button gets quite a workout sometimes! Switching between mouse and keyboard just isn't as elegant as using the mouse alone -- or one hand on mouse and one finger on the keyboard for decimal place adjustments. In my ideal world that's the option I would use, along with having a toggle that allows the sliders to be turned off to regain screen space. |
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@prmod3d, @WagnerBoyzRacing thank you both, the detail you gave changed my mind. My worry was that a number would change when the pointer passes over a field while you scroll the side panels. If the wheel works only in a field that you have clicked (as you describe for Illustrator), that does not happen. I added it: click a number field of the properties, then the wheel changes the value, by one unit a notch (a millimetre, a degree, a sixteenth of an inch), with Shift ten times as much, with Ctrl a tenth and with Alt a hundredth. A field that you have not clicked leaves the wheel to the panel. It comes with the next release; I'm not touching the sliders for now. |
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Just got to try it.. it was like the clouds seperated and sun shined down from the heavens above when I was able to scroll wheel my way to my desired size.. LOL YEEESSSSSS!!!! |
Hey Hen, shift button feature isn’t working on my Mac. Just a heads up. But ctrl and alt (option) are working. |
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@WagnerBoyzRacing thank you for trying it on a Mac, and for the clear report: a Mac turns the wheel sideways while Shift is held and reports it differently, and the field only listened for the up-and-down turn. I changed that, so Shift (ten times as much) works there too. It comes with the next release. I cannot try a Mac myself, so please tell me if Shift still does nothing then. |
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I’ll try it and let you know @henmedia If I encounter any issues at all in Mac I’ll make sure I post them. I’ll be the guinea pig! |
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@WagnerBoyzRacing it is out in 1.89.0: with Shift held, a Mac turns the wheel sideways and reports it as such, and the field only listened for the up-and-down turn. It reads the sideways turn too now, so Shift (ten times as much) works with the wheel in a number field on a Mac as Ctrl and Alt do. Reload the page to get it; the installed app needs a restart. |
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Here's an idea that's definitely not urgent, nor even needed if you deem it to be ridiculous! Perhaps it could be considered a future coding challenge when there's nothing left to do...
Most design programs. layerling included, require a lot of swapping back and forth between the keyboard and mouse. We get used to this and it becomes second nature. Some people are keyboard warriors, learning all the shortcut keys and preferring to spend most of their time on the clickity-clacks, while others prefer to navigate the GUI with a mouse and execute most actions that way.
The one action that usually always requires a keyboard (to the constant dismay of mouse users) is entering text values in a field. Use the mouse to select a field, then switch to keyboard and back to mouse. Ugh!
There's an elegant solution that some programs use which is to continue using the mouse (and specifically the scroll wheel) to roll through incrementing/decrementing digits in an existing number value. Not to be confused with a drop-down of pre-defined values or the up/down arrows embedded on the left side of fields such as some of those used in Orca Slicer and mobile device apps (although that method would work as well); but rather simply selecting the field and spinning the scroll wheel to modify values.
It's very slick, (and I get somewhat giddy when I see these!) but it also has some limitations which is probably why it's not seen more often. The most obvious is determining which decimal place number to change. Using the lowest value (say in the tenths place) would allow for the most precise changes, but would take a long time if you want to change 224.65 to 310.65.
I suppose some sort of logic could be used to determine what the most likely-to-be-changed decimal place would be of a number in any given field; or maybe placing the cursor I-beam next to the place-digit you want to change; or perhaps let the user decide by providing a default option in the Settings. And of course any keyboard input would be an automatic override method of entry.
Anyway, just thought I'd put it out there as I find these sort of value-changing fields extremely convenient when I stumble across them. For sure they're mostly an unnecessary bit of coding pizzaz and flourish, even though they can also make workflow a bit easier and more productive.
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