The bank does not support the XML schema

[leobeal]

Hi again! :)

When trying to send a pain.008.002.02 direct debit to Volksbank I got:

The bank does not support the XML schema urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.008.002.02, but only
 urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.008.001.02, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.001.001.03, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.001.001.03_GBIC_2, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.008.001.02_GBIC_2, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.001.001.03_GBIC_3, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.008.001.02_GBIC_3, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.001.001.09_GBIC_4, 
urn:iso:std:iso:20022:tech:xsd:pain.008.001.08_GBIC_4 
at /app/vendor/nemiah/php-fints/lib/Fhp/Action/SendSEPADirectDebit.php:152)

Q: Is there any way to know in advance what are the bank's supported formats? I see that BPD::getLatestSupportedParameters has that info.
Also, I found a GetSEPADirectDebitParameters action, would it make sense to to implement a getSupportedPainNamespaces() method?
I'd be happy to send a PR.

thanks!!

---

A bit offtopic: I then used pain.008.001.08_GBIC_4, no validation error was thrown in the library, but the bank responded with
3999 (wrt seg 3): Pain Nachricht nicht zugelassen.. Very confusing since they just told me that was accepted.
I find the name "pain" very fitting.

Has anyone seen something similar?

[ampaze]

If you look into SendSEPADirectDebit.php you can see how to get that information beforehand.

phpFinTS/lib/Fhp/Action/SendSEPADirectDebit.php

Lines 134 to 149 in 8719e94

	/* @var HIDXES|BaseSegment $hidxes */
	$hidxes = $bpd->requireLatestSupportedParameters(GetSEPADirectDebitParameters::getHixxesSegmentName($this->coreType, $useSingleDirectDebit));
	$supportedPainNamespaces = null;
	if ($hidxes->getVersion() === 2) {
	/** @var HIDMESv2|HIDSESv2 $hidxes */
	$supportedPainNamespaces = $hidxes->getParameter()->unterstuetzteSEPADatenformate;
	}
	// If there are no SEPA formats available in the HIDXES Parameters, we look to the general formats
	if (!is_array($supportedPainNamespaces) || count($supportedPainNamespaces) === 0) {
	/** @var HISPAS $hispas */
	$hispas = $bpd->requireLatestSupportedParameters('HISPAS');
	$supportedPainNamespaces = $hispas->getParameter()->getUnterstuetzteSepaDatenformate();
	}

---

It might be the case, that it is wrong to imply that general support for a pain format means that a specific segment supports it.

I personally never had a problem using pain.008.001.02, pain.008.002.02 seems to be an obsolete german specific variant.

[leobeal]

thanks @ampaze.
correct, but we'd need to create a new action to execute only this part, right?
edit: or as I suggest, extend the GetSEPADirectDebitParameters action?

[ampaze]

I edited my previous reply before seeing your answer. My tip is to just use pain.008.001.02.

If you still want to know it beforehand, I think you only need the $bpd which you can get with

$bpd = $fints->getBpd();

[leobeal]

oh, that makes sense!!
Thanks a lot for the tip! I was under the impression pain.008.002.02 was a "modern" format, but it seems I was mistaken?
I am trying to use pain.008.001.08. Will the pain.008.001.02 have better compatibility overall?

[ampaze]

Your question sparked a bit of deep dive. What I could gather is that:

pain.008.001.02 will be obsolete after October 2025, replaced by pain.008.001.08 so I would suggest to use that.

Also not part of your question, but for transfers pain.001.001.03 will also be obsolete after October 2025, replaced by pain.001.001.09

As these cut off dates were defined by the german banks, i would think it is safe (and has been since March 2024) to only use pain.001.001.09 and pain.008.001.08

[leobeal]

thanks a lot @ampaze! pain.008.001.08 for the win!

Not connected, but PostBank is giving me when sending the XML, even before showing the TAN.

9050 (global): Teilweise fehlerhaft.
9210 (wrt seg 3): SEPA-Nachricht ungültig/fehlerhaft.
9210 (wrt seg 4): Keine Daten zur übermittelten Auftragsreferenz vorhanden.

BTW,
in pain.008.001.08 the BIC is not mandatory, but there an optional <BICFI> (because why not?). It's optional, but if not provided <CdtrAgt><FinInstnId><Othr><Id> must be set as NOT_PROVIDED

https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/blob/877540/eec34592d2bf123596897cf29448e04b/mL/technische-spezifikationen-sepa-lastschriften-2023-11-data.pdf