Skip to content

Adds P201 'Has a generic point'#854

Merged
danflapjax merged 12 commits into
mainfrom
has-a-generic-point
Nov 4, 2024
Merged

Adds P201 'Has a generic point'#854
danflapjax merged 12 commits into
mainfrom
has-a-generic-point

Conversation

@GeoffreySangston
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

@GeoffreySangston GeoffreySangston commented Nov 3, 2024

We're breaking up #847 into multiple pull requests, as discussed in #849 (comment)

I noticed that Hartshorne uses "generization" instead of "generalization" (which appears on Wikipedia).

@GeoffreySangston
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator Author

I think I should remove P39 (Hyperconnected) from S144 (Diamond poset), i.e. ( https://topology.pi-base.org/spaces/S000144/properties/P000039 ), and add P201 (Has a generic point) to S144. The manual proof of P39 is exactly that there exists a generic point.

@danflapjax
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

danflapjax commented Nov 4, 2024

T594 is currently contradictory for the empty space btw; it should be Quasi-sober ∧ Hyperconnected ∧ ¬Empty ⇒ Has a generic point.

@GeoffreySangston
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator Author

T594 is currently contradictory for the empty space btw; it should be Quasi-sober ∧ Hyperconnected ∧ ¬Empty ⇒ Has a generic point.

Just checking, but is there a tool / warning for catching that kind of thing automatically? I noticed after you pointed it out that the values of the properties on the Empty space page were replaced with ? marks (I didn't check if values in other places were replaced with ? marks though.)

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

I noticed that Hartshorne uses "generization" instead of "generalization" (which appears on Wikipedia).

For what it's worth, the Stacks project also uses "generalization": https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/tag/0060

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

Added some formatting changes, but feel free to edit further if desired.

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

T594: Phrasing things in a positive fashion seems more natural:
[quasi-sober + hyperconnected + nonempty ==> has generic point]

Also, the following result cannot be deduced right now, but would be helpful:
[has a generic point + T1 ==> not has multiple points]
(would imply for example that S16 (cofinite topology on the reals) does not have a generic point)

or maybe the contrapositive would be fine:
[T1 + multiple points ==> not has generic point]

@GeoffreySangston GeoffreySangston marked this pull request as ready for review November 4, 2024 04:04
Comment thread spaces/S000010/properties/P000201.md Outdated
value: true
---

{{S10}} has a particular point topology. The particular point is a generic point.
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

should be single braces {S10}. Or just say "This space has a particular point topology ..."

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

I think I should remove P39 (Hyperconnected) from S144 (Diamond poset), i.e. ( https://topology.pi-base.org/spaces/S000144/properties/P000039 ), and add P201 (Has a generic point) to S144. The manual proof of P39 is exactly that there exists a generic point.

Note that there is no redundancy as pi-base now knows already that there is a generic point for S144:
https://topology.pi-base.org/spaces/S000144/properties/P000201
But if you want to do the change, that would probably be even clearer.

@danflapjax
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

Also, the following result cannot be deduced right now, but would be helpful:
[has a generic point + T1 ==> not has multiple points]
(would imply for example that S16 (cofinite topology on the reals) does not have a generic point)

Even better would be Has a generic point + R0 => Indiscrete.

Another straightforward theorem is Has a generic point + Homogeneous => Indiscrete.

Just checking, but is there a tool / warning for catching that kind of thing automatically? I noticed after you pointed it out that the values of the properties on the Empty space page were replaced with ? marks (I didn't check if values in other places were replaced with ? marks though.)

What tipped me off is that the Advanced page said there were way fewer traits than there ought to be. I then used the tool of mine linked to from that same page to look at which spaces had contradictions, but it's not great for seeing what the contradiction actually is at the moment. It would be nice if the Advanced page just listed which spaces had contradictions when that happens.

@GeoffreySangston
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator Author

GeoffreySangston commented Nov 4, 2024

Perhaps for a future commit... Since I know nothing about quasi-sober spaces, I was thinking it might be nice to include an example satisfying '~quasi-sober + Hyperconnected + Has a generic point' (for which none exist in pi-base presently, or perhaps one does, but is not detected).

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

The new T596 is nice. Now allows to deduce that S42 (right ray topology on the reals) has no generic point:
https://topology.pi-base.org/spaces/S000042/properties/P000201

Now all that remains is replacing T595 with @danflapjax suggestion with R0.

@GeoffreySangston
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator Author

GeoffreySangston commented Nov 4, 2024

I briefly looked over the remaining spaces for which pi-base is currently agnostic about 'Has a generic point'.

I believe the following should 'Have generic point' == true

  • {S44}. E.g., $\frac{1}{4}$.
  • {S45}. E.g., 0
  • {S199}. The 0 ordinal is contained in every left ray.

And the following should 'Have generic point' == false

  • {S46}
  • {S200}. Any point is not contained in some right ray.

This one seemed more complicated to me so I haven't thought it it through yet.

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

Looks really good now. I am ready to approve.

@danflapjax Anything else you want here? If not, I'll approve.

Alternatively, you can approve and merge. But I have a pet peeve here. When you do "squash and merge", can you please wipe out the detailed list of intermediate commits and only leave the title. Steven does not think it's worth to be bothered by this, but if you leave the detailed list, doing git log on the command line gives a ridiculously long list of little commits that are completely irrelevant and distracting. All that matters is the combined commit from the title. If anybody really cares about the details of the individual commits, they will always be accessible from the PR page.
See the explanation and screenshots at #779 (comment).

@prabau
Copy link
Copy Markdown
Collaborator

prabau commented Nov 4, 2024

@GeoffreySangston Let's get this out already. You can do more as suggested in a separate PR.

@danflapjax danflapjax merged commit af3afea into main Nov 4, 2024
@danflapjax danflapjax deleted the has-a-generic-point branch November 4, 2024 06:03
Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment

Labels

None yet

Projects

None yet

Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

3 participants