Main menu and Module menu structure is not not optimal

[dalers]

[edit 2025-09-19 title was originally '"View Audit Trail" does not belong in general setup options' but was changed to reflect more general menu organization]

"View Audit Trail" does not involve any setup so it does not belong in the
[ Setup > General Setup Options ] menu.

Suggest [ Setup > General Setup Options > View Audit Trail ] should be moved to [ Utilities > Inquiries and Reports > View Audit Trail ]

[timschofield]

I would say that "Setup" should be renamed "Administration". The utilities are scripts that come with a health warning, and should only be used by someone who fully understands the script, and the risks involved.

Tim

[dalers]

I was ok with Setup, everything there falls nicely into General, Receivables/Payables and Inventory Setup, but not viewing the audit trail, which I would argue is a report.

Are we really talking about how an admin user could have an "admin" menu, which includes the current setup menu, seeing who is actively logged in, viewing an audit trail, running special-purpose scripts for specific circumstances and understanding the risk, etc. By default, the Admin menu wouldn't be visible for non-admin users.

There are a couple other areas of inconsistency I noticed but not enough to complain about. ;-)

[timschofield]

I always disable the Utilities module on all the sites I administer. There is stuff in there that can do a lot of damage if the user doesn't really understand what they are doing. I put the audit trail into Setup because I couldn't think where else would be appropriate

[dalers]

because I couldn't think where else would be appropriate

I understand, imho it's not setup but there is no better place at the moment without triggering further changes.

I'm really liking the idea of a new Admin menu where one could access the current Setup and Utilities menu and other scripts intended for admin use only.

I always disable the Utilities module on all the sites I administer.

How? Can system administrators still see the Utilities menu but not users, or truly no one has access?

[timschofield]

How? Can system administrators still see the Utilities menu but not users, or truly no one has access?

I remove it from the modules and menulinks tables in the DB so nobody can see it. As they are sites I administer, if they need a Z_ script running, I run it remotely. It's safer that way.

Tim

[timschofield]

Anybody have any issues me renaming the "Setup" module "Admin"?

[dalers]

No issue if you're set on it but I don't understand how it would be an improvement. Also the perceived meaning may not be what you expect. "Setup" clearly describes things that need setting up in order to do something else and "Admin" doesn't have the same connotation, to me "Admin" has a more on-going management connotation but I guess this makes Setup a sub-function of Admin.

Have you given any consideration to the "Utilities" module? How would you compare or differentiate the "Utilities" module from the "Admin" module? Have you considered making "Utilities" a sub-menu to "Admin".

[timschofield]

Have you given any consideration to the "Utilities" module? How would you compare or differentiate the "Utilities" module from the "Admin" module? Have you considered making "Utilities" a sub-menu to "Admin".

I am not "set on it", I am just trying to find a solution.

The Utilities module contains mostly stuff that should only be run by someone with deep webERP knowledge. Viewing the audit trail is just standard admin stuff, and putting it with the more dangerous Utilities scripts people may think they can use them just as easily.

[dalers]

I am just trying to find a solution.

To what? Are you saying changing the module from Setup to Admin resolves this issue? If that's the only reason, I'll close the issue as-is on the rationale I didn't understand the purpose of the Setup module correctly. If you were able to train 100's of people on webERP without needing to change the name, clearly the misunderstanding is mine.

The effort you would have put into changing the menu can now be invested in something with greater benefit.

[timschofield]

To what?

To the issue that you posted. I have stated my problem with using the Utlities module, so I was seeking an alternative.

If you were able to train 100's of people on webERP without needing to change the name, clearly the misunderstanding is mine.

Surprisingly I haven't trained many people on viewing the audit trail. That is a function that only one person in an organisation needs.

The effort you would have put into changing the menu can now be invested in something with greater benefit.

Actually it would take about 5 minutes, but I assume from the tone of your remarks that you don't consider it a good solution so I won't bother.

Tim

[dalers]

you don't consider it a good solution

No, just different.

haven't trained many people on viewing the audit trail.

No, but presumably they were trained on the purpose of the "Setup" module and it seems they were never confused by the module being named "Setup" and not "Admin".

from the tone of your remarks

Don't try to read too much into remarks, it was meant factually not faciously :-)

[pakricard]

No, but presumably they were trained on the purpose of the "Setup" module and it seems they were never confused by the module being named "Setup" and not "Admin".

@dalers : in my experience, "setup" scripts are not just run once and never again. It is more "admin" as many of the scripts there are used in a regular basis as the business needs change, expand, improve, etc. In fact, I probably have to go there at least once a month.

To me, it makes all the sense to rename "Setup" to "Admin", and "Utilities" should be for the current Z_ scripts, to be used with extreme care, as most of them (to my understanding) should never be used. We have discussed this somewhere else, and will be dealt with post v5.

R