Trademark considerations

[tonydero]

Disclaimer: I am most definitely not a lawyer, and am not even sure of all the terminology surrounding this issue.

I don't recall which, but I remember seeing an issue occur where someone forked an open source project and didn't rename the repository (or remove other branding items, but you do seem to have done that here at least), and had a bit of a kerfuffle ensue due to trademark issues. According to https://zed.dev/brand#trademark, the name "Zed" is trademarked, so I just wanted to point this out and suggest a possible repository rename to be extra sure you're not going to have trademark infringement issues brought down on you.

[max-privatevoid]

Good point. I've renamed the repo to zedless, which makes more sense anyway.

[digitalextremist]

Argument can be made that is not >75% different name and definitely derivative, if not intentionally harvesting brand capital.

Seems you are aware of the problem now though: Especially with >$35MM more potentially aimed at you with a legal team.

Both the organization and repository names are in the cross-hairs, not just the fork name. See Gitea vs. Forgejo for example... that is a good case of appropriate distance.

[tonydero]

Those seem like additional good points to me (again, NAL). Reopened and renamed to better represent future discussion.

[digitalextremist]

Would reopen per: https://github.com/zedless-editor/zedless/discussions/38#discussioncomment-14191001

[max-privatevoid]

You may not use the Zed name or logos in any way that could mistakenly imply any official connection with or endorsement of Zed Industries, Inc. Any use of the Zed name or logos in a manner that could cause customer confusion is not permitted.

I think a name that effectively means "without Zed" should be distinct enough. That being said, I'm not married to the name "Zedless" and I'm open to suggestions for a rename.

"The Editor Formerly Known As Zedless"

[digitalextremist]

-less is actually exactly what it is not ... it is 100% Zed without what ought not be in any IDE ( aka pure Zed ) if I read the intent correctly. It can be argued that the pieces put in ought never have been there, or do not serve the IDE and only the interests ... I think the Zed team would actually respect that and fight for the fork even if the VC got raised hackles.

Technically, seeing how the Zed team handles feedback, code from the fork will find its way going the other direction, so what then? Now the root has some of the fork, so it could not be -less then either.

Recommending use of convention https://github.com/zedless-editor/zedless/discussions/38#discussioncomment-14191568

[ilius]

Zed is how letter Z is called in many countries.
I personally think trademarking such words (ay, bee, see, dee etc) is stupid, and more so the legal system that accepts these.

Regardless, how about "Zee" as the name? Since that's the other way Z is called.
If they complain formally, and Github forces you to change it, you can just rename it and make Github repo redirect to it.

BTW, VS Codium may also be considered a derivative of VS Code name.
Same for Chromium and Chrome!
Let's not be too afraid!

I also like the name Zero.

[digitalextremist]

Seems like there is a convention visible there: Zedium

That is both a good name, and a sound strategy: Backing up against Codium and Chromium

[ItsHarper]

Chromium is a completely different situation from the others trademark-wise, as Chromium is the open-source version of Chrome published by Google, and they own the trademark.

VSCodium is just referencing the name Chromium and that project's technical relationship to Chrome.

Not saying that I think VSCodium, zedless, or zedium would be trademark violations.

[digitalextremist]

It is somewhat ironic actually because Atom is underneath Codium long long ago, iirc.

Point taken though: I think it is the other direction, Chromium becomes Chrome not the other way as I implied.

I think the 'cognizable' aspect might carry through most by using the name Zedium because as you say it, you immediately know what it means, given context.

[digitalextremist]

Zedium per https://github.com/zedless-editor/zedless/discussions/38#discussioncomment-14191558 carries on convention, and is strategic since it links to surrounding precedent. Also it is funny. Humor is powerful, and understanding is implied in humor.

Having a 'creative' name is misleading ( such as Zero which is too good for a fork ) because it is not a different thing, not 'our' idea, so branding it as if it were original is also a bridge too far.

Cannot be cooler than the original, cannot be too close. Has to tell the whole world on-contact: THIS IS A FORK. We are in an extremely generic and artificial era so there is some humor in the name; like a social commentary, or reductio ad absurdum.

[ItsHarper]

The problem with "zedium" is that this project is actively making changes from upstream.

Chromium on the other hand is the source code of the open-source parts of Chrome, and VSCodium is binaries of the official VSCode repo, just distributed under an open-source license. Zedless is not trying to be 1-to-1 with upstream like those projects are (Chromium even is upstream).

Edit: VSCodium does contain some more changes than their website implies (it seems more comparable to zedless than I thought): https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium

[digitalextremist]

I agreed above ( https://github.com/zedless-editor/zedless/discussions/38#discussioncomment-14191642 ) and foresaw possible parallel improvement ( https://github.com/zedless-editor/zedless/discussions/38#discussioncomment-14191647 ) but am just arguing for a cognizable term based on perceived convention in an otherwise wild-west of incoherence ( F/OSS debris field )

Ultimately it comes down to something we would have to endure either way and Zed already has that quality, without trying to be too flashy, as with Atom before that... both names have a minimalist connotation. Almost self-abasing.

If it seems like I am invested in a name I am not, I just prefer to understand what it means without confusion, and not hate it.

[ilius]

Zero can mean minimal, and also be ironic since Z is the last letter... Like, you know, somewhat going back to basics and resisting the convenience of AI and privacy-invasive services.

[digitalextremist]

Not expecting to use the fork until/unless it actually provides more value than Zed itself, especially since the main issues the fork exists to solve can be disabled in the original; so detaching from name recommendations and focusing on a claim there:

resisting the convenience of AI

That seems like a statement with 'zero' future mindedness. Local-first 'AI' is not precluded in my read, only cloud services; if Ollama support is not carried over, I definitely lose interest forever, because that is cutting off-nose-to-spite-face.

Privacy-invasive is one thing, local LLMs is another, one does not remove the other... and Ollama support at the same level as cloud providers is part of the awesomeness of Zed and that has been a major win.

Here be bikesheds, so just stomping on that and going to leave it, since I am not invested in the fork unless it actually has value. Have made suggestions in case it does one day matter, and future-me has less likelihood of hating the name at that point. The fork exists without the Zed team, which is the majority of the value and attraction for me.

This fork could only-ever be a long-game for if Zed were actually ruined/lost.