Counterparty Community Chat - March 1st Notes

[davestaxcp]

Counterparty Community Chat Hosted by @davestaxcp using Twitter (X) Spaces
All are welcome to join next time, hosted on last Sunday of the month!

Audio Link: https://x.com/i/spaces/1qGvvkveAQnGB?s=20

... yeah my mic was pretty quiet - will fix for next time

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6:30 - Adam Krellenstein Joins

7:42 - Rare Pepe Perpetual Machine (NakaStrat) buys and sells sells with Token Strategy / Emblem Vault
%18 of supply burned:
https://www.tokenstrategy.com/strategies/0xd3d3f901b2d9c587988333f00b154d57fce9dd07

8:00 - RAREPEPE live Dex order
20k live xcp offer / 30kxcp live sell order .... now at 22k XCP buy offer:
sell into dex bid:
https://www.xcp.io/tx/07daadb3ed9eb32f125fc7d67d148b98a6ba92587be729d1ca79d6f72376b81d
sell rare pepe into xcp bid:
https://tokenscan.io/tx/3118184

8:35 - Dan Andersons new wallet:
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/xcp-wallet/nicpjdbehgcjbjfjkobcidnfmfpijohg

Adam: "I think Dan's is just really good at building and designing. He's fast. Makes really user friendly, attractive apps."

9:10 - Current Active Wallet Features list:
#158

10:00 - require memo is even an option with Counterparty?? a BTC feature centric option that I didn't know about?

11:00 - respect to RarePepeWallet and Fest Rares history:
https://festrares.siteoly.com/

12:14 - wallet with least amount of features is Casa Tookan (but the UI is so nice!)

12:45 - going to use that information to update Counterparty Wallets website page

13:20 - infrastructure / markets / tooling list up next: Token dot art, CounterTrader, (etc etc)
https://token.art/

15:20 - sweep asset to UTXO , reference 'sell whole wallet' discussion and also Token Ownership Trading?:
CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core#2163
#151
#141

16:20 - Counterparty token ownership on protocol is not necessarily a 'clear thing yet'... or as clear as 'asset quantity in wallet'

17:05 - edge cases everywhere.... ex: what if you sweep a wallet but you have open orders on DEX?...

17:40 - would we need changes to sweep function to prepare first?
Adam: yes... but still tricky

18:05 - transfer token ownership to UTXO is easier than sweep whole address to UTXO

18:55 - UTXO attaching solves old BTCpay issue (which dispenser did try to fix... and they did for a while)

19:50 - we need more discussion from current infrastructure providers and users on all of the ideas above. if you are reading these but wont post your opinion on the CIP discussion on things you are passionate about.... i loathe your lurking inaction
https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/CIPs/discussions

20:40 - goal for website changes...
Dave: "I'm leaning more into the website from here on.... I want a user to go to the website and freaking understand counterparty.... these are the wallets... here are the markets... and my hope in the future to have a 'collections' page.... "oh this is where spells of genesis is... this is where Rare Pepe is..."
Adam: (paraphrased) "I am open to any changes to the website the community wants to do"

22:50 - submission process for future collections website page for all new projects

23:10 - Subterranean joins (https://x.com/subterranean_1)

• wants to also include documentation and medium articles for 'how-to's on website and help for new users

24:35 - website changes need approval from Adam K and Quentin, but feel free to request and add here:
https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Website/issues

25:30 - Subterranean open to creating 'News' content on website

26:00 - Bitcoin Conference in Las Vegas - 10 Years anniversary of Rare Pepe

• Subterranean, Scrilla, Scientists invited to make 20ft wall at the conference
• Rare Pepe history round table
  https://2026.b.tc/
  "an official part of the biggest bitcoin conference in the world"

27:40 - why doesnt Looney through a Fest Rares while he's there?

29:05 - post synopsis so awesome! great example from Paris Fake Rare 2024:
https://fakeraredirectory.com/pepes-in-paris-post-game-report/

30:20 - Horizon wallet scrutiny... which features will be added in the future?
Adam: "memo is easy...
... we base features on metrics we see the people use
... price action seems to drive most users and features - trading focused"

• add memo certainly wanted/needed by community
• verify message is really needed for private OTC trades!! - wish i had it in Freewallet.... thanks Dan!
• close dispenser by hash is helpful
• counterparty inscriptions not yet added - Dan's wallet has it! (this creates an ordinal on ord network and is also a counterparty inscription)
• upload an image in the wallet so nice!! (rarepepwallet + xcp wallet has it)
• needs to offer new/all 'create fairminter' specs

... Horizon plans to support xcp inscriptions in future

''''how many things did we add to the protocol that aren't supported by wallet infrastructure providers?''''

"horizon targets workflows, models and integration of markets.... less focused on 'powerusers' ..."

38:40 - we love Freewallet Desktop + Jdog, but it's most likely powerusers will have to transition to another wallet in the future due to features offered alone!

39:30 - "alot of these devs just dev in their hearts for fun... gotta remember that"

40:00 - close all open DEX orders in one transaction (Dan's PR)
users want to use xcp functions for cheaper btc transactions.... why not have close all dispensers... close all atomic swaps etc...
#159
also related.... - batch transactions:
#160
"we need to prepare for a high btc fee environment!"

42:15 - 'multi-transaction packing ovbiates the need for MPMA'
CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core#2197
"doing this for Counterparty would dramatically reduce fees"
^^^^^
batch transactions would change the entire counterparty fee environment
Adam: "alot of it is spec'd out at this stage!"

45:00 - new users will say with batch transactions "you could never do this on Runes, or ETH or Solana!...."

45:25 - The Future of XCP Fees:
#161

47:05 - Juan Galt w/ John Villar interview referenced:
https://youtu.be/f7p4izksjxo

47:25 - the only place we have fees as of now:

• issue named asset: static 0.5xcp fee
• sweep: dynamic xcp fee due to how many assets you are sweeping
• subasset fee: removed by Adam K! (nobody cared!... why should they have a fee anyway?)
• dividends: dynamic fee (due to what?... where in the code is it shown?.... protocol / wallet providers should show estimated fee!)
• attach asset to UTXO: dynamic fee

49:20 - fee system is a touchy subject

49:30 - Adam: "I was being really dumb and the current design is probably the worst design for xcp fees"
.... "and no one understands the proposal I made to make it better"

proposal: CounterpartyXCP/counterparty-core#2893

Adam:
"the proposal is to make some fees (didnt specify which) not static... but depend on usage of that feature"
"fees should be lower when usage is lower"
"reduce barrier to entry when no 'spam' exists at all"
"higher when SIGNIFICANT usage.... up to the community to decide when that might be"
".... if xcp is taking up 70% of a bitcoin block... yeah we should have an anti-spam fee"
"xcp should be economically useful but preserve original thesis"

• community was scared fees would be added for things we are not used to paying fees for.... would do the opposite... and add friction to where it shouldnt be
• what about all the people that paid for 0.5 xcp for all the older assets?

Adam:
"if everyone has 6 months of warning, changing the fees to dynamic... shouldnt 'burn' anyone.. plus they would most likely be cheaper!"

• what if xcp fees are close to none, but it suddenly gets popular... how does his proposal react to this situation?

"proposal reacts very slowly! alghorithm takes 2 weeks of blockchain data"
"in general fees should be 0 until its used often"
"i dont care what price it goes up to or if there is a ceiling... i just think the current system sucks"
"depends on the particular feature and how people would use them"

• what if we had an xcp fee ceiling?

"problem with a hard ceiling is xcp price changes often"
"you should only be at high fees if youre at 80% of bitcoin blocks being xcp transactions for 3 weeks"
(my thoughts: .... which would be a pretty crazy situation if so and make counterparty look more interesting than runes/ordinals ever did!)

• let's just debate fees on specific features! this debate is literally only for token issuance fees!... really shouldnt be a big deal to discuss and personally think Adam's points are logical

59:45 - UTXO attach fees is already dynamic and uses this proposed model

• whats the dollar cost of UTXO fee right now?
  Adam: "its 0! nobody is using it right now... when it gets usage it will be a slight fee... but not yet"
  "right now [on token issuance] we have an economically small anti-spam fee and its just a pain in the ass"

1:01:00 - interesting take here from Adam
"let's average all asset issuance metrics... if we are at average usage why not it be 0.5 xcp as it is now... if its less used... then cheaper... more used? more expensive"

.... my post though doing these notes atm.... how would we feel about a min and max fee using the theory above?

• I would be happy to talk about this on every counterparty space we have!
  Adam: "good! this is fundamental network economics!"

1:02:00 - Subterranean mentions this proposal or a version of it makes sense and 'regulates itself'

1:02:40 - Arwyn joins (https://x.com/arwyn_official)

• just another note from me - protocol and wallet infrastructure providers need to estimate and show the fees that are going to happen!!!
  XCP Gas Fee on Compose Response counterparty-core#2636

1:09:00 - Dan Anderson with XCP Wallet has the rumored 'Buy XCP' button
it's really really really nice for it to be that easy for the user! especially a new one

1:10:35 - is there benefit for node runners to recieve xcp fees?
Adam: "It's been a topic of conversation since day 2"
"there isnt a clear way to do it"
"there isn't a natural way to do it"
"you don't get paid to run a bitcoin full node"
"and you don't even need to run a full node to mine"
"too radical to change and not a good idea"

back to fees....

1:12:15 - sweep fee model seems fine!
feel free to disagree but I haven't seen contention there at all

1:13:00 - if i did a dividend and it charged me xcp.... I didn't notice!

1:13:45 - Arwyn proposes putting the "A" back into named assets
this has been discussed for a decade!

Adam: "the people who spent 0.5xcp to register XAPPLE would be angry"
"that was a stupid error I made"

• counterparty assets cannot start with "A" ... because numeric ones do!

Adam: "I made an arbitrary decision.... and I regret making that choice"

funny enough... most of the community these days are for this it seems so far:
#162

proposal for this pushed by JPJA:
#162 (comment)

1:17:25 - edge cases for "A" asset rush:

• same block Arqyn and I issue "APPLE" ... who wins? ... lottery of blocks and miner
  ... if you 'lose' you get your XCP back! (Adam only 95% sure tho during talk)
  .... doesnt seem like an issue!

1:19:20 - what about allowing sub 4 letter asset names?
ex: "USD, JPY, XXX"

Adam: "that decision [to restrict 3 letter assets and below] still makes sense to me"
"part of the issue is faux BTC or USD names"
"a few parties can have a monopoly on 3 letter asset names"
"and that sounds bad!"

1:23:14 - dont anyone mint 'ARWYN' before Arwyn ;)

1:23:45 - maybe "A" asset mint gold rush will show statistics and metrics for Asset Issuance anti-spam fees!

• back on fees, Adam should put up a couple options for 'usage' fees on the post he originally presented
• I think a more 'lamens terms' + 'options for fee graph' would help push this proposal (or something like it) forward

1:28:15 - CIP 25 standard (enhanced asset information)
#157

• should we update it? of course with backwards functionality
• block explorers are expected to use it and show the information artists/tokens have!

Adam's Horizon Token Standard:
#142
Adam: "new standard removed restriction of standard forcing 'types' of data ... like movies or soundcloud link or artist name etc"

• basically means user can choose whatever category they want
  Adam: "it would be backwards compatible!"
• token could have AR elements and user could just mark it as "Augemented Reality Functional" in a custom manner
  Adam: "makes it so in future you dont have to update the SPEC!"
  "could be easily integrated by block explorers for new types of content"

1:33:45 - Adam Krellenstein leaves

• Arwyn Leaves

1:34:40 - new projects!
Rare PenPen - homage to Tomopen's works in RarePepe and MemoryChain etc!
LongBranch started during 'penguin walking toward mountains' went viral

1:37:00 - Rare Horses?

1:38:00 - Project JSON lists work:
#150

1:41:00 - historic NFT's from Counterparty need their own collection... emblem might offer them eventually?

1:43:00 - counterparty community infrastructure providers now have the option to communicate directly with eachother

1:48:40 - Porkchop joins and gets mad i asked for $600 for a FREEDOMKEK when they sold for $2k+

1:50:00 - Porkchop stoked on batch transaction idea... still doesn't want to write in the coutnerparty github.... how much time would it take chop?

1:53:00 - Kane Mayfield (https://x.com/KaneMayfield) created a custom ETH MPMA tool for comprimised ETH accounts to get out your NFT's!
https://github.com/KaneMayfield/Rescue-Lifeboat

1:54:00 - XCP was created by burning Bitcoin - do these people STILL not understand?

1:56:00 - Chop: "I have been dreaming about Dan making a new wallet"

1:56:40 - XCPinata just updated his website to itemize and organize all the pieces he did on xcp (considered HNFT's and remarkable work.... first pixel art on xcp??)
https://xcpinata-directory.web.app/

1:58:00 - Chop happy to hear counterparty website will show more information and 'show' people that Counterparty was here first:
NFT's, Gaming, Pepe, Sarutobi, etc etc