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Limitations

David Thomas edited this page Jul 26, 2026 · 18 revisions

As highlighted in other pages there is a limitation to using divide / multiply loops when rebuilding with materials and lightgroups simultaneously. As separate rebuild blocks they must rebuild back to the beauty before merging to the larger rebuild through a divide / multiply loop, this is because the loop shows the difference between the rebuild and the beauty it's compared against.


rebuild_mode_add

In testing AOV_rebuild this became apparent to me for objects / materials that could be considered emissive. Only occurring in the additive rebuild as the subtractive method takes from, and then adds back to the beauty for each AOV, (so taking away then plussing back an empty emission AOV from the beauty does nothing). The emissive objects / materials are still in the (beauty) rebuild B pipe and can be taken from / plussed back if a lightgroup AOV has been assigned to these objects / materials.

Compared to the additive rebuild where the composite starts from an empty image and each AOV must be plussed back to rebuild the beauty, an empty emission AOV means a missing emission AOV in the materials rebuild breaking the larger rebuild as it's passed through a divide / multiply loop. In the same regard (additive rebuild) if an emissive object / material is rendered through a lightgroup AOV and not an emission AOV, and if there are no other lightgroup AOVs to rebuild the lightgroups block back to beauty before it's passed through a divide / multiply loop, this will break the larger materials & lightgroups rebuild.


add_div_mult_eg_02

As highlighted in the SideFX doc's this is a topic that is often found to be confusing when encountered...

https://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/solaris/support/lpe.html


hou_docs_CL_CO_lpe

To show how the difference between emissive objects and light sources can be problematic for AOV_rebuild's additive rebuild divide / multiply loop I made some test renders (download link below) using Refining_Karma_Renders.hip (course link also below)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oVDAC-iFaeBTs-isUS_eOqc0xtpHIKxb/view?usp=sharing

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/refining-karma-renders/

Included in the test nuke script 'AOV_rebuild_karma_examples_v002.nk' are some rebuilds to show how the additive rebuild can break out of the box without the correct settings; and also how this can be fixed with one setting (at least for this Karma example).

Lets take a tour of the issue here to understand it in full.


panel_karma_vis_lights_01

Take note how Lightgroup Regex assigns visiblelights AOV to the lightgroups rebuild.


limitations_hou_22

That's not very convenient! Let's think back to the SideFX doc's explanation of LPE's and how emissive objects / light sources render, then look at the problemaic AOV's from the render settings node in Houdini.


hou_visible_lights

The fix for additive rebuild in this example?


panel_karma_vis_lights_02


rebuild_mats_visiblelights_correct

Because of this I've added a feature to the additive rebuild whereby users can add duplicate AOVs to multiple (material & lightgroup) breakouts. It's not technically correct or relevant to this rebuild but I thought it might be useful option and it comes with a warning to make users aware that duplicate AOVs in material and lightgroups breakouts will break the rebuild.


warning_emissive_01

Thanks to Todd Manus www.itodd.net for first drawing this issue to my attention.

Summary

When using divide / multiply loops for additive rebuilds, each material and lightgroups block must rebuild back to the beauty before being merged through a divide / multiply loop.

Specific to the difference between emissive objects and light sources, for users unsure of the LPE events in their AOVs workarounds are..

  • checking if the unassigned pipe is safe to use.
  • using the subtractive rebuild.

As such this is documented as a limitation rather than 'known issue' to be fixed.

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