Potential for .dsf, .dff, or SACD .iso sopport?

[Kevinhykuo]

I happen to possess several .iso for SACDs. Getting .dsf or .dff files to play and display the metadata correctly is quite the hassle on Linux. For context, I spent two days trying out various software, including DeadBeef, with little to no success. The only player that plays .dff file correctly is Audacious, but it does not detect the metadata correctly. On Windows, all you have to do is install Foobar2000, have the correct plugins installed, then you can play the .iso directly. Without having to convert it to .dsf or .dff. Having .dsf and/or .dff support on Tauon would be a godsend, and if it could read directly off the .iso, that would make this the ultimate Linux music player!

(OS: Kubuntu 24.04)

[C0rn3j]

https://www.ffmpeg.org/general.html#Audio-Codecs

Direct Stream Digital has a hit, so we can probably run it through ffmpeg.

Detecting .dsf/.dff is easy - reading it from the .iso might turn out to be trouble, since that's not exactly a unique extension.

Shoot the files over and tell me what you expect from each of them.

https://cloud.rys.rs/s/g82Yb52ifx53wHy

Though, of course, the best solution would be to simply convert your files to a format that's not ancient and niche.

[C0rn3j]

There should be a new prerelease in about 20 minutes, try it.

Tauon now plays DSD WavPacks just fine - it was a simple change.

The 06 - Make Me a Memory (Sad Samba).wv you uploaded has a broken APE tag(yet another reason to convert these files), it's not a full 32 bytes - Tauon crashed tag scanning on that - that's now fixed, now it safely discards it instead.

I just noticed that the audio duration in both instances is wrong. The longest track is 7 min 30 seconds.

That's odd, that one ain't fixed if that's the case. I can see Dolphin showing me what's likely the correct duration.

Can you toss me one of those files you converted which has the timing issue?

[C0rn3j]

I've fixed the track length in #2300 - no pre-release though, am not as sure of the changes unlike with the other stuff, so I'll wait for it to be reviewed.

EDIT: It's been merged now.

[Kevinhykuo]

You're awesome! Can confirm that DSD WavPacks work under the new release. The tracks are all playable, without any issues so far. The timing issue has also been resolved.

Can you toss me one of those files you converted which has the timing issue?

My bad. The longest track is 01 - Winelight.wv which has a length of 7:35, not 7:30 as I previously stated.

Currently, the only issue is that the album art fails to load on both Windows and Kubuntu.

May I also suggest supporting DSD over PCM (DoP) or direct DSD output?
In Kubuntu, it's sending a resampled 352.8kHz PCM signal for both PulseAudio and PipeWire. In both cases, "Avoid Resampling" is turned on.

[C0rn3j]

May I also suggest supporting DSD over PCM

3b9789e

That's what fixed the playback in the first place if we're talking about the same thing?

Currently, the only issue is that the album art fails to load on both Windows and Kubuntu.

Fixed just now.

In Kubuntu, it's sending a resampled 352.8kHz PCM signal for both PulseAudio and PipeWire. In both cases, "Avoid Resampling" is turned on.

That's a bit out of my wheelhouse, report a bug in the Issues tab if you think that shouldn't be happening.

[Kevinhykuo]

That's what fixed the playback in the first place if we're talking about the same thing?

I don't think it's the same thing. I think the DSD signal is getting decoded into a 352.8kHz PCM signal before being sent to my DAC; hence, it shows "352.8kHz PCM". Whereas if DoP or direct DSD output is enabled, it would show "DSD64/DSD128/DSD256/DSD512". My DAC displayed "DSD64" when it detected a DSD signal from Foobar2000 in Windows.

That's a bit out of my wheelhouse, report a bug in the Issues tab if you think that shouldn't be happening.

If I understand the logic correctly, this is the correct/expected response. It is running at the native sample rate of the decoded DSD stream: DXD PCM (8 x 44.1kHz = 352.8kHz). Sorry, my wording made it sound like a bug. What it meant to convey is that resampling should not be happening at all if DoP or DSD output is supported.

Also, thank you for your blazing fast response. It took me completely by surprise!

[Taiko2k]

FFMPEG supports .dsf/.dff -> PCM so ive enabled that in Tauon now as that's fairly straightforward (Feel free to test and report back). Direct DSD output is less trivial and I'm scared.

[Taiko2k]

Okayyy I have an experimental branch with raw DSD support. I tested it working on my DAC which apparently does support DSD never knew huh.

You can try it from the CI build from this PR #2302. Launch app and go MENU > Settings > Audio > Direct DSD mode.

Only Pipewire on Linux is supported. It worked for me (of course its pretty rough as it bypasses all softvol etc but thats what you get with BIT PERFECT™) but theres probably unknown variables or device config needed maybe IDK.

[C0rn3j]

That was an extremely unfortunate build issue, Phazor with PipeWire was always being silently built with miniaudio outside of run.sh ever since we switched to pyproject.toml :/

Taiko fixed it on the branch and I ported it to master with some addons, you should now be able to test if you download a build from the latest commit.

[Kevinhykuo]

Just downloaded the latest preview version and artifact, both don't have the "Direct DSD output" option.

[C0rn3j]

You still have to use the dsd PR branch that Taiko linked, not the
master(pre release is built from it) one.

I've only ported the pipewire loading fix over, not the native dsd support.

Reposted in-thread now that I'm not limited to email

[Kevinhykuo]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification!
Just downloaded the Dsd direct #2443 artifact and is now able to toggle "Direct DSD output" without an issue. It's no longer greyed out. However, the output is still 352.8kHz PCM despite the kernel detecting SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE from my DAC, which means DSD is supported out-of-the-box.

(base) kev@Onyx-Kubuntu:~$ cat /proc/asound/card*/stream0
GuangZhou FIIO Electronics Co.,Ltd FIIO QX13 at usb-0000:05:00.0-2, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 1
    Packet Size = 536
    Momentary freq = 352823 Hz (0x2c.1a58)
    Feedback Format = 16.16
  Interface 1
    Altset 1
    Format: S32_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 0x01 (1 OUT) (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
    Bits: 32
    Channel map: FL FR
    Sync Endpoint: 0x81 (1 IN)
    Sync EP Interface: 1
    Sync EP Altset: 1
    Implicit Feedback Mode: No
  Interface 1
    Altset 2
    Format: S16_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 0x01 (1 OUT) (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
    Bits: 16
    Channel map: FL FR
    Sync Endpoint: 0x81 (1 IN)
    Sync EP Interface: 1
    Sync EP Altset: 2
    Implicit Feedback Mode: No
  Interface 1
    Altset 3
    Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 0x01 (1 OUT) (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
    Bits: 32
    DSD raw: DOP=0, bitrev=0
    Channel map: FL FR
    Sync Endpoint: 0x81 (1 IN)
    Sync EP Interface: 1
    Sync EP Altset: 3
    Implicit Feedback Mode: No

Edit:
Update: I converted one of my files 01 - Winelight.wv from WavPack to DSF. Tauon immediately recognized it as a DSD format but gave the error "This device does not accept direct DSD".

[Kevinhykuo]

Update:
I was able to get direct DSD playback to my DAC by

1. Restarting PipeWire with systemctl --user stop pipewire, which removes all apps using/outputting PCM.
2. Checking playback by using pw-dsdplay, for example pw-dsdplay -v "01 - Winelight.dsf".
3. After confirming no issues with playback, I played the .dsf file in Tauon and... OMG, IT WORKS!

Turns out anything outputting PCM (even if nothing is currently playing) could hold PipeWire hostage. So, a solution could be:

1. Detect whether PipeWire currently has a supported ALSA device open.
2. If it is being used by PCM:
   • temporarily stop/release the PipeWire audio graph,
   • launch pw-dsdplay targeting the device,
   • let DSD play natively.
3. When playback finishes:
   • restore PipeWire.

For devices such as mine with pw-dsdplay that does not support DSD playback with WavPacks:

• Convert a .wv to a temporary .dsf and feed that to pw-dsdplay

Edit: Make sure to turn down the volume on you DAC before playing to protect your ears.