Is V1 better than V2?

[master255]

I had a chat with ChatGPT about which torrents are better: v1 or v2. We both came to the conclusion that v1 is better than v2. Take a look at the screenshot and read the discussion from the end. Perhaps you have some new points to add? Post them here and we’ll include them in the discussion with ChatGPT.

Perhaps, if you put forward enough arguments, we’ll finally come to the conclusion that we need to switch to v2, and we’ll all make the switch more quickly.

[arvidn]

I don't think those points are correct, but your prompt suggests that you might not have a good faith interest in understanding the difference between v1 and v2

[master255]

Like many others, I want to switch to V2, but I need some arguments.
You say these points are incorrect. Let’s go through them one by one and see where the mistake lies.
I’m willing to run some tests and put our theory to the test in practice.
Where’s the mistake?

[qBittUser]

Your screenshot shows obvious mistake in the bottom: "That's one...". AI should've written: "These previously mentioned things are some reasons..." or show us "The one main reason" and not make people wonder why proper wording and clarification was left out.

Second possible misleading info or mistake is metadata size, because if you do ask: "Is v2 of .torrent files metadata ever smaller than v1?".

Then you get short explanation as if it can be smaller or similar:

https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a11ba8617b881919f8f2fbc3758e9b9

Your link also shows that you previously asked or wrote in different language and eventually ended up seeing a final reply back was also made in English. So users who don't understand the other language aren't able to quickly and easily analyse what leaded to such conclusion. Maybe writing everything in English and slightly differently will some day show something else as a conclusion.

You also underlined various things from v1 as if you didn't read through more detailed explanations, favor one over the other or just are leaving a impression you have very high expectations for v2 which unfortunately is something that is different and support for such files hasn't even been available as long as v1.

We both came to the conclusion that v1 is better than v2.

Maybe for your use case it's currently better or good enough.

I asked more straightforward questions and chatGPT wrote that v2 is: better, superior, more secure and modern, but it's currently better for everyone to use Hybrids to keep compatibility.

I asked: "Show table comparing upside and downsides of using v1 vs v2 of .torrent files".

Answer: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a0a75926ccc8191b5eb99cd2a9ea1b2

There you see 15 things in the comparison table, your screenshot only showed 8.

Perhaps, ... we’ll finally come to the conclusion that we need to switch to v2

Then need to ask: "When and why were v2 of .torrent files first made?".

Answer: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a1178afde3c8191aeca5054b21baa3

I asked: "Why are v2 .torrent files better than v1?".

Answer: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a0a462b0c98819195aaae46963e5ebd

I asked: "What needs to be done for v2 of .torrent files adoption to become more widespread than v1?".

Answer: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a0b4943cba88191a5f81da610ef0111

Then I asked: "How can I help to increase the adoption rate of v2 of .torrent files to become more widespread than v1?".

Answer: https://chatgpt.com/s/t_6a11822dcd888191ad00850526445fe4

So depending what and how you ask, wish and truly seek for can all be explained by chatGPT differently, be more detailed or be lead to opposite conclusion.

Once all torrenting clients and tools improve Hybrid and v2 torrent files support and solve old annoying bugs, then maybe more websites and users will eventually be willing to also use them.

[master255]

but again you didn't explain the rest written in blog and skipped some other things unrelated to that I have asked before.

You’re asking questions that are not relevant to the topic of discussion. Of course I’m ignoring them.

Because I doubt even if I can figure out how to recheck everything myself, then I doubt I will be taken seriously.

Then you’ll know what’s really going on and which programs to use.

I asked and mentioned before, that I'm curious if anyone could confirm if there's even anything good about v2 files and v2 protocol?

As I mentioned above, I can’t find a single advantage to the v2 version of torrents. Perhaps Arvin can shed some light on this? @arvidn , what are the advantages of v2 torrents? Maybe someone else can help? @aldenml @gubatron @anacrolix @glassez
Could you please help us identify at least some of the advantages of v2 torrents over v1?

Only with v2 you everyone is more likely or always be forced with various things by default?
With v1 it more depends on torrenting tools/client implementation and it's default settings and other user visible options?

Merkle's tree applies a stricter structure to torrents compared to v1, but that's not really important. We're actually facing a crisis in torrent software. Nothing is being developed, and more and more is being blocked on various websites and marketplaces.

Developers are wasting time implementing v2 torrents, which actually offer no advantages over v1, but only add drawbacks. This distracts developers from truly important technologies, such as editable torrents, gossipub, decentralised databases based on editable torrents, local databases based on collections, and many others...

For example, I created a torrent marketplace (a marketplace based on editable torrents) to distribute my programs. Otherwise, they aren’t published anywhere! They’re banned everywhere! Governments are fighting torrent programs. This is done quietly and in secret.

[anacrolix]

The benefits are specific to particular use cases. Hash algorithm and metadata size are universal. Streaming, deduplication, and partial proofs are more specific. The protocol changes are a good baseline. Like all good major revisions, it doesn't force invalidate versions, and at some point in the distant future will be the natural choice. There's no need to rush it. Even my client isn't completely conformant yet, and I don't care.

[glassez]

For me, the only advantage is the absence of cross-file pieces. And the biggest drawbacks are everything related to the so-called "backward compatibility" with v1 ecosystem, i.e. hybrid torrents and identification by truncated hashes.

[master255]

@qBittUser As you can see, even top-level torrent programmers don’t really understand how they work.

@anacrolix Perhaps you haven’t read what’s written above. But we’ve tested it here and proven that the v2 torrent file is larger than the v1 torrent file. This is a drawback, not to mention hybrid torrent files.
The SHA-256 hash algorithm places a greater load on the CPU, which is also a drawback. However, SHA-1 collisions still have not been observed in torrents. And collisions do not pose a major problem. After all, they would only corrupt the file, and only if that particular piece (which is highly unlikely) were downloaded from someone who had spent millions of dollars creating the collision.
Deduplication in Torrent v2 works in the same way as in v1. However, streaming and partial proofs are not included in v2. This is because too many hashes are required to validate 16KB blocks. And if these were stored in a torrent file, it would take up far too much space.

We’re discussing here the mistakes made by programmers. The error that led us down the wrong path of development. Do you understand?

@glassez

For me, the only advantage is the absence of cross-file pieces.

For over five years now, I have been creating v1 torrents with file-based alignment, using the same .pad files as v2 torrents. This means that v1 torrents also have file deduplication, just like v2, because the file hashes are always identical. And just as in v2, file sorting is applied in v1 when creating the torrent file, which results in the same hash on different computers.

We won’t even mention hybrid torrents here, because there are already too many drawbacks in v2 torrents.

@arvidn We have already developed programs and libraries for SHA-256 and v2 torrents.
This might be useful in the future, when we encounter frequent and inexpensive SHA-1 collisions.
Or it might never be useful - which is more likely.

Arvin, right now we need to switch back to v1 torrents and drop SHA-256 in favor of SHA-1. To save users’ resources and better optimize torrent performance.

This will simplify and speed up torrent development!

[anacrolix]

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