Barriers / Gates in BRouter / Graphhopper #56
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This isn't really a Cruiser issue, but details a few tweaks I've made to the car-fast.brf BRouter profile in order to make it work a little better for me. I'm in quite a rural part of the UK, there are quite a few cattle-grids and level-crossings. Previously, I had wondered why I'd be taken on a 10-mile detour between 2 Via-Points that were within visual range on the same road. Turns out that BRouter (and GraphHopper) won't take you over a cattle-grid - and, if somebody has been editing OpenStreetMap in their own way: A standard level-crossing with an automatic barrier would also be avoided if there was a "lift_gate" at the location. Similar crossings locally confirm that the element placements are not consistent (the joys of community edits!). I am able to route over a crossing a few miles away. Meh. The BRouter mod is as follows: I don't know much about the map tags, so am not sure what else a "gate" would mean in other places, perhaps an actual physical barrier/gate for cycle/pedestrian access only? Who knows - but it certainly applies to at least 5 cattle-grids that I've got on some of my routes. |
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Replies: 11 comments 24 replies
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Here's an example that I found within Cruiser Desktop. The routing is fine via online BRouter and OpenRouteService, but fails miserably using offline GraphHopper - it tries to take me down a footpath which then becomes a road (and back the same way) despite "Car" being selected. BRouter/OpenRouteService Route: GraphHopper Route: The following objects appear to be the issue (they are cattle-grids): It's clearly a routing issue but hopefully provides some insight into why things happen and how to avoid them - or, in my case, be able to ride over them :) |
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@MotoUKRider thanks for these examples and the BRouter profile instructions! 👍 |
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Your contributions regarding BRouter profiles optimised for the motorcyclist target group are valuable. Also know that BRouter is mainly aimed at cyclists and hikers. Thus, optimal motorbike profiles have been neglected anyway. However, your contributions in the Cruiser forum will probably be lost too soon anyway. Since you are pretty good with profile building anyway, perhaps you could share your ideas and experience regarding a better motorbike router profile in Brouter github. Good luck. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) |
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Thanks for the nice words - I'm not sure I have anything to contribute in that regard. My riding via Cruiser is via a planned route that I want to follow (shaping-points, places to stop etc) rather than "A to B, no motorways, very curvy" - there's at least 2 better apps if that's your thing. The routing issue with GraphHopper is more of a concern: If I select "Bike", the route is acceptable. It's almost as if Cruiser is telling GraphHopper the incorrect vehicle. |
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GraphHopper does not have a separate motorcycle internal profile. |
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"Car" was used for the examples above. If I select "Bike" in GraphHopper, it plotted the correct/short route (like BRouter). It would seem that the "barrier/gate" tag is causing an issue, I'm guessing a width restriction or physical barrier that the routing algorithm denies a motor-vehicle access to? In short, I'm thinking that some overrides may be required to allow for motorcycle routing where we know it's safe to ride. I wonder if other examples exist within Europe that can be tested?
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More investigations - I'm afraid that Graphhopper, in the UK at least, is a bit rubbish! The presence of these cattle-grids and those types of "barrier" level-crossings make it impossible to route a car or motorcycle profile through them. There must be examples like this within Europe that pose similar hurdles? Even BRouter in its default "carfast" configuration has this problem, hence my custom profile (details in 1st post). The use of It's my opinion that Graphhopper is routing incorrectly: Preventing vehicles from passing through "barriers". I've checked a few local ones and the "access" tag isn't present. I took a read of OSM Access Tags and ended up in a corn maze! There appear to be all kinds of variables for access: Time, vehicle type etc and whatever implied rights you have based on the Country you're in. Anywhere there is farm land and/or level-crossings on your route may cause Graphhopper routing to do all kinds of interesting things. This isn't Cruiser's fault, of course, but it does pose a problem in the above scenario - and worth considering especially as Graphhopper is "built-in" and possibly the go-to routing method for offline use. If it's possible for Cruiser to tell the routing engine what kind of road/ferry/gate/toll are avoidances/preferences then it may be possible to create better "Car" and "Motorcycle" profiles (plus custom ones) where you can avoid whatever attributes/roads/tags are on offer. Or is it just me?! |
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Oh wow! Think I may need a "Turbo Boost" button on the bike :) |
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I wouldn't mind so much if this type of stuff was easily configurable (for the basic user) - It shouldn't fall to editing files within Notepad, just checkboxes in a Routing Profile within an app (most nav apps have this). That said, it's still "not quite right" that a car routing profile will not take me over a cattle-grid (not-to-mention the many variables used in tagging map features from the community). |
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I agree, that's why I want to explore how we can better handle BRouter profiles / options inside Cruiser. |
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To be fair, BRouter isn't the main culprit - although it's certainly more work for the average user to maintain download zones and decide from a list of generic profiles (never mind editing them). Graphhopper is the main issue in that there doesn't seem to be a way tell it how to handle the routing issues outlined above. If the API allows Cruiser to pass detailed criteria, then it suggest that this can be resolved without nagging the Graphhopper forum :) The use of certain tags (barrier, gate, troll) is either incorrect (due to community edits) or the routing algorithms are using them incorrectly. |
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OsmAnd handles this nicely and it was my suggestion in the past, but it wasn't accepted. A global on/off switch for temporary limitations so routes can be calculated
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@0709wiwiwi @MotoUKRider |
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Sorry, let me be clearer: Graphhopper is the main issue re: cattle-grids. Can't route, won't route :( BRouter doesn't like certain level-crossings, eg: Diverted from Level-Crossing which is quite odd. I tested this in the web interface and Cruiser app - and only my edited BRouter profile will route me direct over that crossing. The tag of crossing:barrier = Half could be the reason why. Here's another example, but it does take me over it. There is no barrier attribute on this crossing. What I think is that there is no (routing) difference between a level-crossing barrier and a car-park barrier (to private/public parking). |
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I try your 2 examples on BRouter website with car profiles and they work. |
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Ah, the gate/cattle-grid appears to be OK thanks - It's the level-crossing See #56 (reply in thread) where I mention 2 examples of similar crossings where one routes OK and the other does not. I have to use my editing BRouter profile within Cruiser app to pass over the crossing on the B1206.
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@MotoUKRider thanks for the explanation. I asked @afischerdev if / how we can use such internal profile parameters (like 'barrier') in external BRouter calls. It would be nice if we could have a switch for "temporary limitations", as it works elsewhere: |
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It does not seem possible, we need a modified profile for such parameters. |
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OK - it was worth an ask, at least! This does re-ignite the issue regarding consistency of tagging road features/furniture - and (new/non-expert) users being at the mercy of a custom profile (possibly 5-pages deep on a forum) to provide a workaround and perhaps, unfairly, blaming the navigation app instead of the routing engine :( The main thing is that the issue can be worked-around, and perhaps we can add some "primer" type help/walkthrough to the Wiki page or I can re-publish my BRouter profile again? I'm sure you'll agree that requiring Mr/Mrs Average User to edit a text file isn't ideal. |
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@MotoUKRider about your report in GraphHopper: Testing your example:
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Yes, the offline graphs in Desktop+App take me on a wild-west tour! |
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On desktop better use the routing websites, export to gpx format and import to Cruiser. |
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It would be nice not to have to rely on the interwebs! Could you investigate the Cruiser<>Graphhopper exchange of parameters because I think that's the real issue here. If there are "avoidances" that can be specified, it would be useful to at least have a config option. The infamous cattle-grid is not any kind of physical barrier or preventative routing object - its only caution is that it's slippery when wet :) |
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@afischerdev suggested to include the BRouter .brf profiles inside Cruiser. Then I can add a switch in Cruiser settings to turn on/off barriers, gates, ... Has anyone experience with the use of such global variables in BRouter? |
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Ignore barriers in GraphHopper (offline) is possible, stay tuned for the next version! Ignore barriers in BRouter (offline) will be handled separately: |
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@devemux86 Sorry to drag this up, but in my (extensive) use of Desktop for the theme work, I (re)downloaded a couple of GraphHopper areas and the UK one seems to have re-introduced that "cattle_grid" issue again. The infamous Scottish cattle-grid is no longer allowing me to pass. Using the online GraphHopper Route Planner, there is no issue with the cattle-grid. There remains an issue with certain types of level-crossing "barrier types" (deja vu much?!). A defined I also won't tell anyone that it took me several Desktop archive versions, folder open attempts and coffee before I realised that you had to unzip the routing files before they could be used. It's amazing how much you forget when you rely on another method (online BRouter, in this case). |
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@MotoUKRider thanks the report. The graphs seem to not be correct and have only the car profile. We will need to rebuild the graphs in the server. |
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@devemux86 Thanks for the file - yes, that routing ZIP fixes the cattle-grid issue. |
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GraphHopper (offline) routing data have all been recreated. |
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@devemux86 Thanks - that cures both my known trouble-spots! |
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Wow, it was over 2 years ago that we had "fun" with cattle-grids in the routing engines... This week, I was finally able to visit the offending road feature further up this thread during my trip into Scotland. I present the Mennock Pass cattle-grid before I rode across it singing: "nerr-nerr-na-nerr-nerrrr" From here the road leads up to Wanlockhead, the highest village in Scotland (466m) and I can assure you the views are not 'arf bad! |
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@MotoUKRider Thanks for the picture! We did so many routing tests with this particular area. 🙂 |
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@MotoUKRider
GraphHopper (offline) routing data have all been recreated.