New driving profile

[devemux86]

Cruiser driving profile has a new implementation.

It is based on a new model with improved results.

[Leeb64]

Kann die Vermeidungsstärke nicht mehr eingestellt werden? Wäre suboptimal...

[r11d11]

I am not expericend with BRouter test website.BRouter test website but I tried it.

Copied the driving2.brf to profil

Then "Anwenden" and I get an error Message

Cannot create path-model: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: btools.router.KinematicWeightModel

[devemux86]

@r11d11 You must use BRouter test website: https://brouter.de/brouter-test/

[Leeb64]

Ich hab mal so ein bisschen herumprobiert.

Die Städtevermeidung arbeitet schlecht. Der Ort wid zwar gemieden....aber wie( Vielleicht für Fahrradfahrer interessant).
Das war vorher besser:

Das Ganze ohne Stadtvermeidung:

[devemux86]

@Leeb64 You must use BRouter test website: https://brouter.de/brouter-test/

[Leeb64]

Hab ich doch!
Beispiel 1+3 sind mit der Brouter Testwebseite- geht ja gar nicht anders. Beispiel 2 ist mit dem "normalen"Brouter gemacht.
Diese Städte vermeiden Funktion funktioniert eigentlich nicht!

[devemux86]

@Leeb64 Please provide route examples with BRouter test website links, so we can check them.

You can also edit the profile, try different costs for the avoid cities and write them here, so we can check them.

[r11d11]

Sorry I did not seen the test in the BRouter website: https://brouter.de/brouter-test/
But now profile driving2.brf works :-)

Question:
Option Consider_town = Activate to bypass cities / big towns as far as possible
confuses me

Example
Fischbach -_ Hochspeyer (6,2 km).gpx.txt

With Checkbox on Brouter routs thru Hochspeyer. For what ist that good. I want an option to avoid big cities
Or want someone to consider = include the city?
I am a german native speaker . Does "Consider_town" and "Activate to bypass cities / big towns as far as possible" contradict itself?

[devemux86]

@r11d11 If you mean the name of the option, the profiles use the official BRouter names.
Check the description to understand what it does.

In Cruiser the option is better named as "Avoid cities".

[r11d11]

Ok, consider town means avoid towns. Very confusing.
But consider/avoid towns does not work. See my example. With checkox on consider_town brouter routes thru Hochspeyer. When I uncheck consider town then brouter route like i would expected it

[devemux86]

@r11d11 Please provide route examples with BRouter test website links, so we can check them.

You can also edit the profile, try different costs for the avoid cities and write them here, so we can check them.

We cannot test the images. 🙂

Also the cities must have a large population so the engine can avoid them.
BRouter documentation mentiones > 80 k people.

[Leeb64]

Noch ein Beispiel:
Mit Cosider Town->

Ohne Consider Town->

Ich könnte noch ein paar solcher Beispiele zeigen....
Mit Consider Town werden unsinnige Umwege gemacht.
So wie das jetzt ist, ist es nicht gut.

[Leeb64]

Noch Krasser:
ohne Aviod Residential->

Route:
Albersweiler -_ Hinterweidenthal xx(28,2 km).geojson.txt

[devemux86]

@Leeb64 Please provide route examples with BRouter test website links.

We need the BRouter website url links, not geojson files.

[Leeb64]

Ohne Avoid Residential wird in Annweiler durch irgendwelche Gassen geroutet.

[devemux86]

@Leeb64 We cannot understand what you mean without BRouter website url links.

[Leeb64]

https://brouter.de/brouter-test/#map=12/49.2191/8.0277/OpenTopoMap&lonlats=8.027887,49.219189;7.749145,49.200983

[devemux86]

Set the vmax in the profile to 160.

I updated the driving profile above.

[Leeb64]

Kommt auch nix gescheites dabei raus.

Es wird irgendwie über kleine wege am Waldrand entlang geroutet....anstatt die Bundesstrasse auf der anderen Seite der Stadt zu benutzen.Oder zumindest die Hautstrasse.

[Leeb64]

Sorry hatte noch das alte Profil....mit dem Neuen scheints zu gehen.

[Leeb64]

Zuu schnell ....geht nicht!

[devemux86]

@Leeb64 Sorry we cannot continue tests by looking at images.

Tests need BRouter website links and the parameters that are activated.

Also read the guide to understand how to check the road types used in routing:

• How to use BRouter website #272

[devemux86]

For example can check this route.

Activating the avoid towns, it avoids the Salisbury.

[Leeb64]

Setzen sie die Wegpunkte nah an die Stadt -> es funktioniert nicht gut.
Das funktioniert scheinbar nur bei weiträumigen Umfahrungen.
Sobald es aber keine Möglichkeit gibt eine Stadt zu umgehen kommt nix gescheites dabei raus.
Das funktioniert definitv besser beim alten Verfahren.

[devemux86]

Obviously, the router needs to find available roads to use.

We can't set too many avoid options and waypoints and expect miracles.

[r11d11]

Here is my example:
https://brouter.de/brouter-test/#map=14/49.4458/7.8451/osm-mapnik-german_style&lonlats=7.919461,49.459744;7.88894,49.427658

With Vmax 90 and checked consider_town it routes thru the city so it does the oppposite of bypass cities
With Vmax 160 and checked consider_town it is ok

[devemux86]

vmax can be used to avoid high speed roads.

Do not enable multiple options at the same time, as they may conflict with each other.
This is a standard rule in routing.

[devemux86]

@r11d11 Also Hochspeyer is a village with small population, so it cannot be avoided.

BRouter documentation mentiones > 80 k people.

[Leeb64]

https://brouter.de/brouter-test/#map=13/48.2644/7.2206/OpenTopoMap&lonlats=7.258208,48.287669;7.172233,48.237403
bei diesem Beispiel benötige ich die Geschwindigkeit von 1400km/h um ein befriedigendes Ergebniss zu erzielen....hmm

[r11d11]

I think I have to clearify what I want.
1.) I plant a route with 4 waypoints. In the options I set a checkpoint to avoid motorways and consider town.
Purpose was to plan a route for my motorcycle without motorways and try to bypass big cities.

https://brouter.de/brouter-test/#map=9/49.8910/8.3241/osm-mapnik-german_style&lonlats=6.964838,50.751901;7.02489,50.441843;7.299314,50.066704;7.833185,49.324363;8.258367,48.73983;8.16364,48.469282

First I thougt. Looks nice.
This route passes Hochspeyer and i am happy with this if Brouter would pass it on the main road

I realized that Brouter does a city tour thrue aprroximate 10 small cities. Not every small cities but a lot.
One example was Hochpspeyer. I dont want to bypass Hochspeyer. I want that Brouter stays on the main route when it passes Hochspeyer.
When you click on the route above you see the same issue at the end in Oppenau. Brouter routes on very smal roads thru Oppenau

So I set vmax to 160
That makes it better but not perfect.
Example Wormersdorf Nobody wants to route this way thru Wormersdorf
And again. I dont want to bypass Worrmersdorf. I want to stay on the mainroad Wormerdorfer Street when I drive thru Wormersdorf

Then I set vmax to 500. That helps in Wormersdorf to stay on the main road.
I imported the route with Kurviger and Kurviger said that the route looks to 97% reasonable. Not bad.

But at least I learned that “consider town” means “avoid town” and that it only works above a certain population size and does strange things to smaler cities especially when vmax < 100

Ok, for me it is clear. I will not use "consider town".

Without this option the route for me looks good :-)

[MotoUKRider]

Here is a good example of where consider_town works:

Default routing:

Avoiding town:

As @devemux86 mentioned, the city/town needs to have a population greater than the threshold to be considered. I admit, the naming of the setting "consider" when the other 2 settings have the opposite action when ticked, is a little confusing.

It's also worth repeating that if a place has only 1 road in and out, and no bypass/ring-road, it'll have trouble avoiding it.

[devemux86]

the city/town needs to have a population greater than the threshold to be considered.

if a place has only 1 road in and out, and no bypass/ring-road, it'll have trouble avoiding it.

Thank you, these are correct! 👍

[Leeb64]

Irgendwie ist es keine besonders gute Idee etwas Funktionierendes durch etwas meist nicht funktionierendes zu ersetzen...
Das sollte man den BRouter Entwicklern vielleicht mal erklären.

[devemux86]

You all complained that BRouter calculated large duration for routes with avoid options.
As the old avoid options used the speed and their levels were not linear, so they were not useful.

This has now been fixed, as it correctly uses the cost to avoid road types.
The profile is open source, improvements are welcome.

[Leeb64]

Hat sich da wirklich jemand großatig beschwert?
Egal. Ich denke auf einn paar Sekunden kommts da nicht an - Viel wichtiger ist das Ergebniss.
So wie es jetzt ist ist die Städtevermeidung unbrauchbar. Zuviel seltsame Ergebnisse.
Bis man das alles kontrolliert hat dauert auch lange - sehr lange.

[devemux86]

It was not seconds, but many hours!

• Route duration increases on curvy profiles #865 (comment)

In any case the avoid towns is optional.

It's better to use the avoid road types and small max speed to get the same or better results.

---

Avoid cities works if it is used properly, as it is demonstrated above (here and here).

[Leeb64]

Ich hab mal schnell daran herumgebastelt.
Zeile 172 von 30 auf 0.8 ->bewirkt daß in den Ortschaften diese komischen "Umwege"vermieden werden.
Zeile 250 von 10 auf 6 ->Wald "Anziehungskraft" etwas schwächer
Zeile 260 von 0 auf 4 ->Städtevermeidung schwächer

driving2a.brf.txt

Der Schalter "avoid residential" müsste viel stärker wirken dann müsste man in Zeile 172 nicht auf 0.8 .

Mit diese Variante kann man was anfangen. Änderungen der Geschwindigkeit wirken sich auf die Strecke aus.

[devemux86]

Zeile 250 von 10 auf 6 ->Wald "Anziehungskraft" etwas schwächer
Zeile 260 von 0 auf 4 ->Städtevermeidung schwächer

Testing a route, the suggested changes make the options unusable,
as they produce the same route like when the options are disabled,
so they do not have any real improvement.

[MotoUKRider]

Something else to consider is that the variable % rules we have in Cruiser (using BRouter) do exactly as they are told in a faithful and mathematical way. This is evident when a route needs to fill the quota of "Avoid Trunk roads by 37%" and takes you off the road for a short distance before putting you back on it - the kind of detour a human would think a little strange.

This kind of tweaking requires coding, determining how often a turn is performed and for how long. I'd imagine that it would have to work out the "cost" of leaving a road simply to make the numbers add up to 100... Slide-rules at the ready!

Going forward, I would say that the simplistic On/Off avoidances will have a negative impact on those riders using the "Create a trip" feature and make use of a "Curvy" Routing Profile - the hard settings will almost certainly lose the randomness of a variable system. That said, you can review the plotted route and make manual changes before riding it.

The developer of BRouter is very open to suggestions and I've helped with some "turn instructions" over the last couple of months to improve navigation for users. I'm not a Java coder, but happy to get under the hood and do what I can with certain aspects of look/performance etc.

This is the kind of groundwork that makes life easier for the users who just want to open the App, plot a route and enjoy the ride...

[bios4]

Quick question to @devemux86: will this new driving profile with all benefits and downsides (when reading the above reports) replace the known version, or will this be available in addition?

[devemux86]

@bios4 It will be as an additional option.
When BRouter stops maintaining the old engine, we can only have the new profile.

[Leeb64]

Ich hab nochmal an dem neuen Profil herumprobiert.
Die Option "avoid residential" muss wirkungsvoller werden!
Ich habe das mal so gemacht:

Jetzt bewirkt der Schalter auf einmal etwas!
Die Geschwindikeit auf 100km/h!

Das geänderte Profil:
driving2b.brf.txt

Es werden keine so unsinnigen Ortsdurchquerungen mehr getätigt wenn "avoid residential"aktiviert ist.
Mit "avoid unclassified" kann die Route von "Kurvig" auf "extra Kurvig" geändert werden.
Die berechnete Fahrzeit ist etwas zu lang(auch mit dem originalen Profil).

[Leeb64]

Auf Basis des driving2 Profils hab ich was zum Testen gemacht:
SPANNEND.einstellbar.brf.txt
Man kann damit(in der APP+BRouter Testwebseite) die Vermeidungsstärke mit den BRouter Faktoren einstellen.

[Leeb64]

Scheinbar ist der Name: model:btools.router.KinematicWeightModel obsolet....
Man muss ein"#"davor setzen,dann funktioniert es wieder.
Es funktioniert dann auch in anderen Brouter-Web Clients!

[devemux86]

The declaration is necessary to use the correct new model.

[Leeb64]

Auf der Brouter test-Webseite ist scheinbar momentan der Wurm drin......

[Leeb64]

Die neue Deklaration im BRouter-Test-Client ist wohl :KinematcModel.
Die Profilen die die ganze Zeit mit dem "KinematicWeightModel"(Auto effizient/Auto schnell) liefen steht nun " KinematcModel" im Script...
Bei "KinematicWeightModell" kommt eine Fehlermeldung.
Funktioniert aber nur mit dem Test-Client richtig!!

[devemux86]

BRouter changed the model name, I updated the profile.

Use the BRouter test website, which is updated frequently.

[Leeb64]

Hier eine Version von driving2 zum Einstellen der Vermeidungsfaktoren.
Voreingestellt für C ->Kurvig (in den Klammers stehen Empfehlungen für die anderen Profile:F=schnell/FC=schnell+kurvig/C=Kurvig(eC=extra Kurvig)
VARIABEL - xy.brf.txt

[Leeb64]

Hier nochmal die Version vom vorherigen Post mit 4 Voreinstellungen für die jeweiligen Profile.
⚙️vario.zip

[devemux86]

• Implemented in Cruiser 5.9.8 #901